403 réponses à ce sujet

[fortunesque]

poisonoustea wrote...

She asks Shepard to hide war crimes from the governing body of her people to preserve her father's memory. Yeah, it sucks, but it's treasonous to withhold that information.

Not exactly. Revealing her father's discoveries would lead to the Quarian unity to crumble, and probably a war against the Geth. Hiding that information is for the greater good. Tali's father was an important political figure among the Quarian; his reputation is far more than Tali's matter.

That's up to the quarian government to decide what they're going to do with the information. It's not Shepard's job to take care of them and make sure they don't do something stupid. 

[Clover Rider]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...
Reason number 2 is not a good reason, because this is one of her more unselfish choices.  She is trying to protect her father's reputation from being ruined, even though he was not a good father to her.

And when you refuse to follow her orders she claims you are not her friend, regardless of what your reasoning was in exposing her father.

It is a good reason. Tali has no idea what true friendship is if she thinks a real friend would just do whatever she wants, be it giving her the geth data in ME1 or hiding war crimes in ME2.

Boy you don't like to help anyone do you?

[poisonoustea]

It's more than simply what she requests, but how she behaves when you deny her request. She acts like a spoiled, selfish brat.

Well, denying her that information is completely gratuitous. I would be really annoyed if a friend denied me something just for kicks and giggles.

That's up to the quarian government to decide what they're going to do with the information. It's not Shepard's job to take care of them and make sure they don't do something stupid.

Oh, that's such a Renegade attitude.
Tali tells you what will happen. She asks you for a personal favor which is also important on a political scale. If you say Shepard's job is not to take care of the Galaxy, why the hell is he fighting the Collectors?

Modifié par poisonoustea, 19 août 2010 - 10:19 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...
Reason number 2 is not a good reason, because this is one of her more unselfish choices.  She is trying to protect her father's reputation from being ruined, even though he was not a good father to her.

And when you refuse to follow her orders she claims you are not her friend, regardless of what your reasoning was in exposing her father.

It is a good reason. Tali has no idea what true friendship is if she thinks a real friend would just do whatever she wants, be it giving her the geth data in ME1 or hiding war crimes in ME2.

Well shepard did act like an **** to her, maybe thats why. Also the fact that it was because of shepard that she got exiled from her home and her father is now considred a war criminal. Also the fact that giving out the information like that would have caused another war between the quarian flotilla and the geth.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Andaius20 wrote...
last time I checked, Garrus has milirtary training, has tactical combat leadership experiance, was the top hand to hand expert on his ship whe nhe was in the military. All his crew was ex- military, or private security. They had good gear, and tactical planning. They where successful enough to make 3 galaxtic Mercenary bands team up dispit the mall hating each other to first find and pay off Sidonis, then ambush his team while he was away. Then they hired waves and waves of independant mercs at wha twas it 500 credits a pop to go in just for a distraction.

I don't see how that compares to the Pajama batman wannabe's.

He's marginally more successful than the pajama wannabes. I was merely using a humorous comparison.

He's still far, far from Batman.

[Adriana22]

Barquiel wrote...

Adriana22 wrote...

It's useless, she's not going to listen. Other ppl have kinda .. convincing arguments, but Mystranna is just full of hate.

You wanted to know why people "hate" Garrus...and now you're complaining??

I'm not complaining. I've seen why people don't like him, that's all I wanted to know, I'm .. satisfied .

[Andaius20]

fortunesque wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...

Also Tali selfish? Seems a little hard to fathom. What are you reason for that?

She loves her people that evil woman:wizard:.

She asks Shepard to hide war crimes from the governing body of her people to preserve her father's memory. Yeah, it sucks, but it's treasonous to withhold that information.

I really don't think anyone here in that same position would have done anything different.

Yeah, but it's still selfish and it's asking Shepard (as a representative to the Council) to lie to a foreign government... 

You can tell Han what really happened anyway. Plus it's not like you erased the evedince on the ship, they still find out Liek the aforementioned Email form Xen.  Plus you know it's your choice to withhold the info. Also lol on the Shepard as a rep for the council. Last I checked they "dismissed" any and all of his claims and can't push him off into a dark corner fast enough when he comes back.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...
last time I checked, Garrus has milirtary training, has tactical combat leadership experiance, was the top hand to hand expert on his ship whe nhe was in the military. All his crew was ex- military, or private security. They had good gear, and tactical planning. They where successful enough to make 3 galaxtic Mercenary bands team up dispit the mall hating each other to first find and pay off Sidonis, then ambush his team while he was away. Then they hired waves and waves of independant mercs at wha twas it 500 credits a pop to go in just for a distraction.

I don't see how that compares to the Pajama batman wannabe's.

He's marginally more successful than the pajama wannabes. I was merely using a humorous comparison.

He's still far, far from Batman.

Yes, he doesn't have a batman suit or the batmobile. And because hes a mortal like everyone else he decides to team up with other people who generally seem to have the same views as him.

That little ******.

[Andaius20]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...
last time I checked, Garrus has milirtary training, has tactical combat leadership experiance, was the top hand to hand expert on his ship whe nhe was in the military. All his crew was ex- military, or private security. They had good gear, and tactical planning. They where successful enough to make 3 galaxtic Mercenary bands team up dispit the mall hating each other to first find and pay off Sidonis, then ambush his team while he was away. Then they hired waves and waves of independant mercs at wha twas it 500 credits a pop to go in just for a distraction.

I don't see how that compares to the Pajama batman wannabe's.

He's marginally more successful than the pajama wannabes. I was merely using a humorous comparison.

He's still far, far from Batman.

I'm sure batman would have much more success if he was fighting criminal orginaization wiht incomes and man power equivilant to various countries militaries.  Batman just never fight the same level of bad guys.

[tj987654321]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...
Reason number 2 is not a good reason, because this is one of her more unselfish choices.  She is trying to protect her father's reputation from being ruined, even though he was not a good father to her.

And when you refuse to follow her orders she claims you are not her friend, regardless of what your reasoning was in exposing her father.

It is a good reason. Tali has no idea what true friendship is if she thinks a real friend would just do whatever she wants, be it giving her the geth data in ME1 or hiding war crimes in ME2.

I have NEVER exposed her father's mistakes, but wouldn't you be pretty p***** off if one of your friends destroyed the reputation of someone you loved; even if it was the morally right choice?

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Well shepard did act like an **** to her, maybe thats why. Also the fact that it was because of shepard that she got exiled from her home and her father is now considred a war criminal. Also the fact that giving out the information like that would have caused another war between the quarian flotilla and the geth.

Um, revealing what Tali's father was doing exonerates Tali... She doesn't get exiled.

tj987654321 wrote...

I have over 10 Shepards; 8 on the PC and 2 on the Xbox. I have NEVER let that innocent kid die. I didn't even know
he died until someone mentioned it on this forum.

I like to see all the possible choices the game offers with my alts.

poisonoustea wrote...
Well,denying her that information is completely gratuitous. I would be really annoyed if a friend denied me something just for kicks and
giggles.

It's really not even denying her. When you refuse to give her the data you simply tell her to make a formal request
through official channels. There's nothing spiteful about that.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 19 août 2010 - 10:21 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

tj987654321 wrote...
I have NEVER exposed her father's mistakes, but wouldn't you be pretty p***** off if one of your friends destroyed the reputation of someone you loved; even if it was the morally right choice?

I might get mad, sure. I wouldn't declare this person as no longer being my friend, especially if his decisions were morally sound.

If my father was committing war crimes I would not fault anyone for revealing them, even if I did love my father regardless.

[poisonoustea]

I might get mad, sure. I wouldn't declare this person as no longer being my friend, especially if his decisions were morally sound.

Thing is, they weren't (as explained above).

It's really not even denying her. When you refuse to give her the data you simply tell her to make a formal request through official channels. There's nothing spiteful about that

Except that Quarians have tremendous difficulties in operating through official channels.

Modifié par poisonoustea, 19 août 2010 - 10:23 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

But yeah, so now we moved on from garrus and started talking about tali. If you guys have any opinions about garrus just come to the garrus thread. We don't bite....much. Though I think we should just let this topic die.

[poisonoustea]

But yeah, so now we moved on from garrus and started talking about tali.

I think this discussion has veered towards Renegade Shepard's motives, more than Tali's or Garrus'

[fortunesque]

poisonoustea wrote...

It's more than simply what she requests, but how she behaves when you deny her request. She acts like a spoiled, selfish brat.

Well, denying her that information is completely gratuitous. I would be really annoyed if a friend denied me something just for kicks and giggles.

That's up to the quarian government to decide what they're going to do with the information. It's not Shepard's job to take care of them and make sure they don't do something stupid.

Oh, that's such a Renegade attitude.
Tali tells you what will happen. She asks you for a personal favor which is also important on a political scale. If you say Shepard's job is not to take care of the Galaxy, why the hell is he fighting the Collectors?

Giving Tali the geth info is giving her Alliance intel. It's treason; she even says "I understand that you won't go against your people" if you decide not to give it to her (before she gets mad at you). It's like asking a friend to take an xbox from the Gamestop they work at because a new one will totally give you points with all of your roommates. Tali could have appealed to official channels but wanted an instant freebee. I'm sure the Alliance could have shared it if she'd been patient. 

Yes, it's a renegade attitude. And it's foolish to assume that Tali's prediction is right because she is asking you to clear her father's name for her sake. How do you know that it won't be different? You're trusting the word of someone who is emotionally desperate at the time.

Modifié par fortunesque, 19 août 2010 - 10:27 .

[tj987654321]

poisonoustea wrote...

But yeah, so now we moved on from garrus and started talking about tali.

I think this discussion has veered towards Renegade Shepard's motives, more than Tali's or Garrus'

I forgot that this was about Garrus!

[Andaius20]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...

Also Tali selfish? Seems a little hard to fathom. What are you reason for that?

Reason Number 1:
Her actions in ME1 when you don't give her the geth data. for the rest of the game except for the biting little "Oh, are you checking up on me? I'm still here." comment.

Reason Number 2:
In ME2 she asks Shepard to hide war crimes and treason that caused the deaths of civilians from a people's ruling body just to protect her dead father. And when Shepard does what is morally right in revealing said crimes to the people she whines and carries on about Shepard isn't her friend because she didn't do exactly as Tali wanted. She doesn't listen to reason; she's just pissy because you didn't do what she wanted.

Wait, so if you join up wiht a group that says they will help you out on your personal right of passage, when they do find it, they then refuse to give it to you, and pretty much be a ass to you. You'd not complain to them? So if I was a duchebag to you, and say picked up say a free car that you absolutely loved and wanted waved it in your face then told you sorry, your not goign to get it.  you wouldn't "She whines and carries on about how once the mission is over she is
leaving the Normandy, and then she refuses to talk to Shepard" sorry If I'm a little skeptical about that. Seems to be pretty normal reactino to me.

Reason #2 has been covered by other people to my liking.

[poisonoustea]

You're trusting the word of someone who is emotionally desperate at the time.

That's a fairly human thing to do, I think.

[tj987654321]

Andaius20 wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Andaius20 wrote...

Also Tali selfish? Seems a little hard to fathom. What are you reason for that?

Reason Number 1:
Her actions in ME1 when you don't give her the geth data. for the rest of the game except for the biting little "Oh, are you checking up on me? I'm still here." comment.

Reason Number 2:
In ME2 she asks Shepard to hide war crimes and treason that caused the deaths of civilians from a people's ruling body just to protect her dead father. And when Shepard does what is morally right in revealing said crimes to the people she whines and carries on about Shepard isn't her friend because she didn't do exactly as Tali wanted. She doesn't listen to reason; she's just pissy because you didn't do what she wanted.

Wait, so if you join up wiht a group that says they will help you out on your personal right of passage, when they do find it, they then refuse to give it to you, and pretty much be a ass to you. You'd not complain to them? So if I was a duchebag to you, and say picked up say a free car that you absolutely loved and wanted waved it in your face then told you sorry, your not goign to get it.  you wouldn't "She whines and carries on about how once the mission is over she is
leaving the Normandy, and then she refuses to talk to Shepard" sorry If I'm a little skeptical about that. Seems to be pretty normal reactino to me.

Reason #2 has been covered by other people to my liking.

Great answer!

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

I personally dont care for Tali or Garrus. They didnt blow my mind in ME1, due to the unfortunate burden of partially representing their race in much of their dialogue, but on the whole they were okay.

In ME2 they pretty much sucked. Unless you romance them, and enjoy the epicness of 2 medium length conversations, one semi-conversation and a tame love scene that doesnt measure up to the first games, all you get is "Im busy remarks".

Their loyalty missions were mostly shooting, and while I didnt hate it, I didnt much care for what they were doing anyway. Talis was more important than Garrus stupid revenge mission (yet again), but they were typical ME2 loyalty missions: disconnected and shooter oriented.

So yeah, I guess you could say Im someone who could be classed as not liking Garrus, or Tali, or most of the ME2 squad.

They were heavily depending on fanservice for all the people clamoring for a Tali/Garrus romance around ME1 though, which is why I probably found their characters so lacking in ME2. Either way, I certainly cant say I like much about them.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 19 août 2010 - 10:33 .

[fortunesque]

poisonoustea wrote...

You're trusting the word of someone who is emotionally desperate at the time.

That's a fairly human thing to do, I think.

How can you make a fair and impartial judgement with someone who is pleading for something? How do you know that the person that is pleading isn't making things up? We've all told desperate lies before. 

Honestly, I think this thread boils down to something other than renegade or paragon decisions. It's a matter of law v chaos. I for one, choose to uphold laws and procedures. 

[poisonoustea]

How can you make a fair and impartial judgement with someone who is pleading for something? How do you know that the person that is pleading isn't making things up?

Because that person is a friend whom I trust implicitly?

Trying to steer towards Garrus again, that's the same reason why I let him kill Sidonis. I want people around me to be mature, and I act accordingly. Probably the main reason why I like Tali is the fact that she's probably the most mature person on the Normandy; I'm not sure about Garrus, but hey, he's a friend. In theory, Shepard knows him, he expects no betrayal from him. I don't see why he would give him a different treatment.

Modifié par poisonoustea, 19 août 2010 - 10:36 .

[Andaius20]

poisonoustea wrote...

But yeah, so now we moved on from garrus and started talking about tali.

I think this discussion has veered towards Renegade Shepard's motives, more than Tali's or Garrus'

I agree, all the arguements she's putting up seem to relate from bad Shepard choices it seems.

[Pups_of_war_76]

Yep.