91 réponses à ce sujet

[Bobad]

druplesnubb wrote...

....dwarves can't be mages.

 Or have Human sisters?

[druplesnubb]

bethany's model can probably be changed rather easily considering they're doing hundreds of them.

[Bobad]

druplesnubb wrote...

bethany's model can probably be changed rather easily considering they're doing hundreds of them.

model yes, two other VA's for a possibly extensive role not so easy.
.

[dama666]

Its really sad about DA 2, only cares about the solds and forget all the people who love the rol games. The Witcher 2 and Diablo III will be only the true sucesor of Rol next year. What happen Bioware?? We will dont see any more another Roll Game like only you know to made ??



Please think about it, the fans love your roll games and don let EA take the desicion for you.



Bye!

[thegreateski]

Bioware has made several games with a fixed origin protagonist.



All of them were excellent.

[Andraste_Reborn]

There a bunch of reasons why Hawke needs to be human. Here are a few that spring to mind.

1) From a pragmatic perspective, it takes far fewer 'zots' to make a character with only one origin/racial background. Fewer voice actors, less reworking of cut scenes, etc. etc. This means that that time, money and energy can be expended on other aspects of the game rather than on making the world react appropriately to a dwarf or elf protagonist.

2) From a storytelling perspective, it's a lot easier to work the character's family and background into the story more when there's only one background to worry about. Hawke has a family who will apparently play an important role and not die or disappear five minutes in, and that's only possible if the protagonist has a single origin.

3) From an in-universe perspective, Hawke is going to become the Champion of Kirkwall. S/he could even end up running the city. (I'm not saying that's a possible plot outcome, just that I'm guessing it could be the case.) This would be borderline impossible for an elf in a human city given what we've seen of the world so far. It's one thing for an elf to join the Grey Wardens, kill an Archdemon, and become a hero that way. To rise to political power in human-dominated society could actually be harder than ending the Blight. And while there might be a very interesting story in an elf doing that, I think it would diverge pretty widely from the story of a human who did the same. Then we're back to time/money/energy again.

I hope that future games let us play elves and dwarves if that's appropriate for those stories, but I also remember the rage when people found out there were only three races and three classes in Origins. And look how well that turned out!

Modifié par Andrastee, 20 août 2010 - 03:14 .

[The Interloper]

Personally, I wasn't overly impressed by the origins anyway. They had only a limited effect on the rest of the game. Frankly, your origins in ME played a far bigger role; people actually referenced them regularly.



Alot of people are complaining that now they have to just play one character, rather than creating their own. I've played Fallout 3 and DA and while I don't mind the voiceless type at all, I don't see what's wrong with a more focused character like Shepard or Hawke. What's so unconditionally unacceptable about a narrower narrative? You know, like a book? Those things?

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...
1.  "Doomsayers" are a relatively new event in gaming history.  Trust me,  I was posting on boards when you had a 1200baud modem and the person you were talking with was Sid Meir or Brian Reynolds.

Really? I remember a clutch of doomsayers kicking around before NWN1 was released. And as it happens they were right about some stuff.

I remember a clutch of doomsayers kicking around before DA:O was released. They happened to be right about a lot: a game with MMO-like combat, streamlined inventory (no inventory tetris, boo!), the lack of an ability to attack everyone, origin stories that restrict roleplay because you cannot create any background you want, regenerating health and mana, 3D portraits instead of 2D portraits - overall, a game that totally and utterly fails to live up to BG2.

But now DA is the great paragon of RPGs and it is being betrayed. Seriously. Everyone has their breaking point, but still, it happens every game.

[In Exile]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...
Err in most of those games you have a lot more control over who you are, sure you may not be able to choose where you come from but you do get to choose who you are, however in Mass Effect you are always Shepard and in Dragon Age 2 you are always Hawke and you are constantly being reminded of that.

No, in Planescape you are the Nameless One. You might remember this from such things as the plot of the entire game. In BG/BG2 you are the Bhaalspawn; all you get to choose is whether you are naughty or nice. In KoTOR, you are Revan; you literally only get to choose naughty or nice. In Jade Empire you are the Spirit Monk, you only get to choose naughty or nice.

And the list goes on, and on, and on.

I do the point you are trying to make that a lot of RPGs force you to play pre defined characters (A much better example would have been the final fantasy series) however I do (and I assume the OP does as well) prefer to play games where they give you more control over who you are, Bioware used to offer games like this however not anymore.

Well, then let's do this the right way: give me a definition (roughly) for what a pre-defined character is, what a pre-defined character is not, and why DA2 is like the former and not the latter.

Becuase "I think it doesn't feel that way" is just your subjective opinion.

As I have said before I dont mind playing predefined characters if it makes for a better story however if it is just like Mass Effect I really dont see why they bother.

Because Shepard is integral to the plot. Like I told you in the other thread: you cannot create a character that is not essentially Shepard and still play the game.

Human. Career Military. Elite Commando. Exceptional and inspirational leader. Young. Having done some major heroic deed, outdoing all other human elite commandos, within the lore of the game.

So again: who could you have been in ME2 that was not Shepard? You are complaining about, what? The fact that you couldn't invent a career making moment for the young human military commando that became the first Spectre?

[Blessed Silence]

Zvampfar wrote...

Obviously I do, next time I will indeed read about it more. But tell me, if my assumptions as they were was wrong, why then are there as said so many "doomsayers" pointing the finger at dragon age 2?

People fear change.

They are not comfortable is doing something new.

The game isn't what they want.

... take your pick of a gazillion reasons.  It's a normal part of the human psyche and humans in general.  That's why I am so annoyed the Block Person on these forums doesn't do squat.

[AlanC9]

Well, in KotOR you could pretend you had a different background for most of the game. Though that's severely limited too; you simply have to play someone who would have been on the Endar Spire.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

In Exile wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...
Err in most of those games you have a lot more control over who you are, sure you may not be able to choose where you come from but you do get to choose who you are, however in Mass Effect you are always Shepard and in Dragon Age 2 you are always Hawke and you are constantly being reminded of that.

No, in Planescape you are the Nameless One. You might remember this from such things as the plot of the entire game. In BG/BG2 you are the Bhaalspawn; all you get to choose is whether you are naughty or nice. In KoTOR, you are Revan; you literally only get to choose naughty or nice. In Jade Empire you are the Spirit Monk, you only get to choose naughty or nice.

I think later in the post you are replying to I state why Planescape Torment is the exception and yes you can lump Kotor in with it as it follows a fairly similar storyline but in games like BG/BG2 where you may not get to choose where you come from you do get to choose who you are, your name, race, appearance, personality and class, also while in BG1 you do have to assume that your character is fairly young you arent told exactly how old you are so you do have a bit more control over that.

In Exile wrote...

I do the point you are trying to make that a lot of RPGs force you to play pre defined characters (A much better example would have been the final fantasy series) however I do (and I assume the OP does as well) prefer to play games where they give you more control over who you are, Bioware used to offer games like this however not anymore.

Well, then let's do this the right way: give me a definition (roughly) for what a pre-defined character is, what a pre-defined character is not, and why DA2 is like the former and not the latter.

Becuase "I think it doesn't feel that way" is just your subjective opinion.

If you want to argue that then pretty much every character you play in a computer RPG will have at least one predefined aspect, even a mysterious stranger type character has a predefined aspect as for some reason he has to be in the town, village, country ect that the events he gets swept up in happen, sure you can decide why he decided to travel to that particular place but the game does require that he is actually there so you have no real say in the matter.

Now using the term "pre defined character" may not be the best way to describe it as every character has at least one pre defined quality however for me it is where you draw the line between the amount of freedom you are given to define the aspects of your own character and how many restrictions the game places on your character. Sure sometimes the game requires a lot of restrictions on the character to tell a good story (like Planescape Torment)
 however the amount of restrictions placed on a character like Shepard in Mass Effect are unnecessary. 

In Exile wrote...

As I have said before I dont mind playing predefined characters if it makes for a better story however if it is just like Mass Effect I really dont see why they bother.

Because Shepard is integral to the plot. Like I told you in the other thread: you cannot create a character that is not essentially Shepard and still play the game.

Human. Career Military. Elite Commando. Exceptional and inspirational leader. Young. Having done some major heroic deed, outdoing all other human elite commandos, within the lore of the game.

So again: who could you have been in ME2 that was not Shepard? You are complaining about, what? The fact that you couldn't invent a career making moment for the young human military commando that became the first Spectre?

Yeah well obviously I diddnt think your reasons were very good which is why I diddnt take them to heart.

Lets take a look at what the character in Mass Effect needs,

Human, exceptional combat skills and a good leader. Seriously that is all I can think of at the moment, if I have missed something please tell me what it is and why it is important.

Human, yes I will give you that one even though technically an exceptional Turian could save the Galaxy. The Human part is required because another big theme in the game was humanities rise to becomming a and important player in the galaxy.

Combat skills, well dur if your character couldnt fight then odds are he would be turned into paste.

Leadership skills, you could argue that every Bioware game requires this as your character is always the leader of the group.

Now lets take a look at the elements of the character that are forced apon you dispite not being very important.

Name, age, career, background, voice, appearance, hell even certain aspects of Shepard's personality and worldview are being forced apon you.

Now obviously I shouldnt have to explain why most of these dont matter so I will just go over the ones you think are important.

Age, I find it odd you would mention this but what the heck, I believe the reason you gave me in another thread was because he had to be yound enough to potentially be a biotic? However what if your character isnt a biotic? That kinda throws your whole age argument out.

Career, I can sort of see where you are comming from with this and it is necessary for how the start of the story is writen however in the big scheme of things it is highly irrelevant. In my personal opinion the game could have been far more interesting if the start of the story was written to accommodate a larger group of character types. Nihlus is looking for a human candidate to join the spectres and I assume that the Systems Alliance put forward Shepard's name but what if some mercenary from the terminus systems caught Nihlus's eye? Think of it like the dwarven commoner origin where the dwarves are showing off what they consider to be their best and brightest as potential recruits for the grey wardens, however was it the candidate that the dwarves wanted that caught Duncan's eye? Also just think of the indignation of Ambassador Udina when he finds out who the human candidate is, "What? We are putting the fate of Humanity in the hands of a mercenary from the Terminus Systems?".

Background, yes the Spectre candidate has to have done something exceptional but why not instead of making us choose between 3 predefined backgrounds that have very little influence on the game allow us to write our own?

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Blessed Silence wrote...

People fear change.

They are not comfortable is doing something new.

Oh please I am sick and tired of people using this bull**** excuse.

What they are doing in Dragon Effect 2 is not new it is the same bloody thing they did in Mass Effect.

We have played Mass Effect, we have experienced the "new" features and we did not enjoy them then so why the hell should we enjoy them in Dragon Age 2?

[Dave of Canada]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...


Oh please I am sick and tired of people using this bull**** excuse.

What they are doing in Dragon Effect 2 is not new it is the same bloody thing they did in Mass Effect.

We have played Mass Effect, we have experienced the "new" features and we did not enjoy them then so why the hell should we enjoy them in Dragon Age 2?

Really? Mass Effect used isometric views and such?

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Bobad wrote...

druplesnubb wrote...

....dwarves can't be mages.

 Or have Human sisters?

I suppose that is an argument as to why Hawke cant be a different race?

What if Bioware rewrote Bethany's character to be a close childhood friend instead of sister by blood? Your character would still have a similar (if not the same) emotional conection with the character and it wouldnt restrict the player's race.

[AlanC9]

Well, sure -- any limitation imposed by a story disappears if you just rewrite the story enough to make the limitation go away.

[Maverick827]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Blessed Silence wrote...

People fear change.

They are not comfortable is doing something new.

Oh please I am sick and tired of people using this bull**** excuse.

What they are doing in Dragon Effect 2 is not new it is the same bloody thing they did in Mass Effect.

We have played Mass Effect, we have experienced the "new" features and we did not enjoy them then so why the hell should we enjoy them in Dragon Age 2?

Who is this "we?"

Whoever you are: if you don't like the direction the game is headed, then just stop posting on these forums.

I honestly don't understand how all of these non-contributing zeros are still allowed to post.

[Arrtis]

Maverick827 wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Blessed Silence wrote...

People fear change.

They are not comfortable is doing something new.

Oh please I am sick and tired of people using this bull**** excuse.

What they are doing in Dragon Effect 2 is not new it is the same bloody thing they did in Mass Effect.

We have played Mass Effect, we have experienced the "new" features and we did not enjoy them then so why the hell should we enjoy them in Dragon Age 2?

Who is this "we?"

Whoever you are: if you don't like the direction the game is headed, then just stop posting on these forums.

I honestly don't understand how all of these non-contributing zeros are still allowed to post.

Bioware is not bothered they know how to ignore...

[Saibh]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Bobad wrote...

druplesnubb wrote...

....dwarves can't be mages.

 Or have Human sisters?

I suppose that is an argument as to why Hawke cant be a different race?

What if Bioware rewrote Bethany's character to be a close childhood friend instead of sister by blood? Your character would still have a similar (if not the same) emotional conection with the character and it wouldnt restrict the player's race.

Hawke has an entire family. Still, Alan put it better than I.

[Bryy_Miller]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Blessed Silence wrote...

People fear change.

They are not comfortable is doing something new.

Oh please I am sick and tired of people using this bull**** excuse.

What they are doing in Dragon Effect 2 is not new it is the same bloody thing they did in Mass Effect.

We have played Mass Effect, we have experienced the "new" features and we did not enjoy them then so why the hell should we enjoy them in Dragon Age 2?

Doesn't matter, you're going to tell me that a group of young people over the internet are not going to go ape**** over stuff they are distanced from? People do fear change, especially if they feel entitled.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 21 août 2010 - 07:01 .

[Roth]

dama666 wrote...

Its really sad about DA 2, only cares about the solds and forget all the people who love the rol games. The Witcher 2 and Diablo III will be only the true sucesor of Rol next year. What happen Bioware?? We will dont see any more another Roll Game like only you know to made ??

Please think about it, the fans love your roll games and don let EA take the desicion for you.

Bye!

You're saying Diablo 3 is going to be more of an RPG than DA2? Have you ever even played a Diablo game? The only real RPing you can do in those are class selection and name selection. And in D3 you can now choose gender. There has never been any appearance customization, no race selection, no dialogue options, no two roads to a goal like there is in Dragon Age. But sure, you could call equipping your PC with hundreds of different weapons and equipment RPing if you're grasping for straws.
Get your facts straight.

[Gaxhung]

deja vu

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, sure -- any limitation imposed by a story disappears if you just rewrite the story enough to make the limitation go away.

Oh god forbid Bioware rewrite the story to make for a better experience for the player. Seriously which is the more important part, the fact that Hawk and Bethany are related by blood or the emotional connection between them? Rewrite Bethany's character so that she is a close childhood friend and you still have the emotional connection between them yet it removes the restrictions on the players race and surname.

Saibh wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Bobad wrote...

druplesnubb wrote...

....dwarves can't be mages.

 Or have Human sisters?

I suppose that is an argument as to why Hawke cant be a different race?

What if Bioware rewrote Bethany's character to be a close childhood friend instead of sister by blood? Your character would still have a similar (if not the same) emotional conection with the character and it wouldnt restrict the player's race.

Hawke has an entire family. Still, Alan put it better than I.

 

I am not a soothsayer so it remains to be seen whether Hawke's family makes for a better story or whether they will just be another pointless limitation on the character.