204 réponses à ce sujet

[bzombo]

izariluneh wrote...

I am totally against paid DLCs or something similar in any kind of game. I support expansions and free content made by comunity. If we dont whine now, or at least give our opinion we will finish paying everytime we breath and this is not just about videogames, every industry is doing the same right now.

i would agree if the dlc was necessary to play the game. it isn't, so therefore you have no argument. it's bonus stuff.

[Magilicotti]

I won't say paying for DLC is unfair, or a bad business practice, because it's actually quite smart. However to have DLC you can buy almost, if not immeditely after the game is launched, then THAT is a bad business practice. Because now you see threads like this, and I cannot blame the customers for feeling this way, when they just bought the game. It does make you feel angry that you just gave them your money, why am I already having to give you more?!

[ItsToofy]

I don't want to wade through 7 pages of arguments, so I don't know if this argument has been expressed or not, but does anyone remember paying like 20 - 30 dollars for expansion packs to their games that didn't offer THAT much more than the original game? 7 bucks for a new area, character and quest(s) isn't exactly far fetched and is the equivalent of purchasing expansion packs in the pre-DLC era

[Dragon Age1103]

Retriraver wrote...

Am I the only one who feels like game-makers these days are really milking their customers?

I find it rather dispicable that Bioware made DA:O and released it along with DLC that costs extra money. I can see this as acceptable if they made the DLC after the game release, but it seems like the DLC should have been part of the game anyways. I feel cheated when they basically made the game, then blocked part of the game out and make you pay extra money for it. Basically what they have done is charged you $25.00 more than the base game just to get all the content they made for the game. So the actual cost of the 'full' game is $75.00.... that's kind of ridiculous.

Furthermore, the bioware points system is ridiculous. It's exactly the same as the Microsoft points. It's also annoying because they charge some specific amount of points for each DLC, so you may end up with points you don't even need, or not enough points and you have to pay more money to get a few points. DA:O DLC is an example. one of the DLC's costs 1200 points (~$15.00), the other costs 560 points (bit more than $5.00). I bought the 1600 point package for $20.00. I spent 1200 points for one of the DLC's and now I am left with 400 bioware points. So now in order to get the other DLC I have to go back and buy more points than I need, the minimum to buy is 500...

Yes, the game is very good, no question about that. But these game developers are obviously milking the crap out of us...

u do realize you called it DLC right? its DLC not we got done early so its free with the game congrats plz don't cry its free!!!! ah money is so hard ot find...$7 where can i find $7 whole dollars thats fairly close to millions & 5 or more hard years of late nights working on a much anticipated title i hope as a reward for all my hard work missing my family & staying up late working on this game i thought ppl would enjoy & nto all me a scam artist & cry but guess not better stop making awesome games b/c all ppl can do is **** instead of playign & commenting room for improvement & their thanks for making such a great game.

[VanDraegon]

Jolly Jenkins wrote...

I have to agree with the OP on this one.

It is pretty cheap that Bio/EA wants us to pay extra $$ for sidequests that should had came packaged with the original game.

The game already cost $50! Why do I need to spend even more than that?

Nowhere has it been positively established that The Warden's Keep was part of the original content of Dragon Age upon release.

Jesus, get over it people. Dont buy the DLC if your morals are so offended. Not like this is some entirely new idea by a dev.

[PurplePaladin]

Ekardt wrote...

PurplePaladin wrote...

Here's a simple pre-school lesson for those of the "They finished the DLC before the game itself was finished" extremeists: If you can play the so called DLC at launch, then they could have included it in the game, as part of the game, free, at launch, period. The proof is, if your playing the DLC now, at launch, then, WOW, golly gee, they could have included it at launch.

The very fact that they hired people to make content seperate from the game, in advance, instead of just saying "hey, lets just do what game companies have been doing since pong, and put all the great stuff everyone made into the game, and sell it at one price to everyone, equally". Nope, why not just peel off parts from the game, and sell it back to people in bits for more money from the get go. Your right, it's not milking. . . it's more like bilking.

You cant seem to wrap your mind around it. The content was LOCKED several months ago. That is, they cant modify ANYTHING thats included on the disc. To do so would break the lock and push back the release even more months. Every game is completed many months before launch, those months are used for testing and polishing. So if they were to include DLC on the disc the game would never release because by the time they got done testing and and polishing each new thing that was added to the disc, the DLC team will have completed another project, thus the cycle repeats and would never end.

You might say "Well they could have just made the DLC free to download!" which has many problems in and of itself. Number one, the dedicated DLC team doesnt work for free, as I already stated. Number two, its not cheap to just have a bunch of open servers for everyone to download free stuff off of. Number 3,  youll be hard pressed to find Microsoft and Sony releasing free downloads on their networks. Its been done before, but its hard as sh*t to do and expensive as hell for the developers.

They didnt remove ANYTHING from the game to sell as DLC. THE DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT WAS MADE AFTER THE GAME WAS COMPLETED AND LOCKED. I dont know how more plainly I can write that. All BioWare did with Warden's Keep was get new content out there that much sooner for their game. It wasnt a big intricate scheme to make as much money as possible. It was just BioWare, being the great developers that they are, doing what they love to do, and thats create great games. Beleive it or not, most developers make games because they want to, you know, create great video games. See BioWare, Bungie, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Epic, etc.

Sigh, trying to talk sense into people on the internet is terrible for my blood pressure. But no matter how hard I try, I cant sit idly by and watch idiots go about their idiotic ways. Im compelled to try and enlighten them, hopeless though it may be.

There is nothing to "wrap around"; just basic facts all pointing to a very slippery slope:  They put time/money/resourses into making DLC, in advance and seperate of the games release, instead of putting all resourses into the game at first, and making DLC/expansions after.  If this "reverse engineering" bilking catches on, you will absoulutely see companies put more and more resourses (from the start) into making pay to play DLC first instead of making a 100% complete game at first.   

This "The game was locked" excuse is so Forest Gump; again, if you can play the DLC at launch, they could have included it at launch, lock or no lock.  You seriously think they just have to use the magic word "lock", even though everyone can play the DLC from launch, and it's makes all this used car salesman stuff ok?  Every game comapny out there knows when the game goes gold, you can (and they do) add content/updates to day one patches.  They've been doing it for decades, now, they want to make you pay for it.  And if this escapade (included in an otherwise incredible game) is financially successful, you can just get ready to pay $75-$95, total, for games at launch, since you can bet you bottom dollar they will have to pay for at launch DLC for the "complete" game, while the "basic" game is all you'll get if you don't want to dole out  extra moo'la.

Most importantly, charging people for actual game content, better weapons/armor, and more characters is a HUGE chasm of difference than letting people buy vanities like pets, costumes and special effect auras, or getting nice maps/posters/medals in the box.   It's night and day to make people use real money to get items/content that effect game mechanics, combat, and content quality

Modifié par PurplePaladin, 23 novembre 2009 - 07:18 .

[Wolff Laarcen]

[JaegerBane]

PurplePaladin wrote...

There is nothing to "wrap around"; just basic facts all pointing to a very slippery slope:  They put time/money/resourses into making DLC, in advance and seperate of the games release, instead of putting all resourses into the game at first, and making DLC/expansions after.  If this "reverse engineering" bilking catches on, you will absoulutely see companies put more and more resourses (from the start) into making pay to play DLC first instead of making a 100% complete game at first.   

You would have a point here if the game were criminally short. In that case, they would have been guilty of cyncially holding extras back to make an extra quid while users were sat playing a game that was worth less value. If the game was 10 hours long then holding back WK would have been nothing more than a scam.

But in reality, we're talking about a game that can be up to 80+ hours long. This idea that we're somehow being shortchanged because we don't get 81 hours instead demonstrates little more than an outrageous sense of entitlement, even if you bring those absurd equations which figure out cost per minute of gameplay. It's a spectacular example of 'give em an inch, they'll want a mile'. In terms of value the game is already vastly better than most on the market, but it seems that no matter how much you get in the base game, it's not good enough.

This "The game was locked" excuse is so Forest Gump; again, if you can play the DLC at launch, they could have included it at launch, lock or no lock.  You seriously think they just have to use the magic word work "lock", even though everyone can play the DLC from launch, and it's makes all this used car salesman stuff ok?  Every game comapny out there knows when the game goes gold, you can (and they do) add content/updates to day one patches.  They've been doing it for decades, now, they want to make you pay for it.  And if this escapade (included in an otherwise incredible game) is financially successful, you can just get ready to pay $75-$95, total, for games at launch, since you can bet you bottom dollar they will have DLC ready for to get the "complete" game, while the "basic" game is all you'll get if you don't want to dole out more moo'la.

So effectively you're not only an industry insider, you're also a clairvoyant. We truly do walk amongst gods on this forum.

Ultimately you can choose to believe what they say or not. As a developer myself I would guess that I find such a reason to be slightly more acceptable than you, as I've been in that situation myself before (complete with self-appointed experts claiming to understand the process better than those that work on it) but realistically, you have no grounding to claim others are wrong for accepting it. And yapping about how the sky is falling or will fall or is falling but we can't see it is neither here nor there.

Most importantly, charging people for actual game content, better weapons/armor, and more characters is a HUGE chasm of difference than letting people buy vanities like pets, costumes and special effect auras, or getting nice maps/posters/medals in the box.   It's night and day to make people use real money to get items/content that effect game mechanics, combat, and content quality.  

Are you going to give some sort of reasoning for such a stance, or are we simply expected to take your arguments as law from on high? At the end of the day, whether you're admiring your new pets are blasting a orge to pieces with a new spell doesn't matter one jot to the fact that you're just playing a game.

[BluesMan1956]

Magilicotti wrote...

I won't say paying for DLC is unfair, or a bad business practice, because it's actually quite smart. However to have DLC you can buy almost, if not immeditely after the game is launched, then THAT is a bad business practice. Because now you see threads like this, and I cannot blame the customers for feeling this way, when they just bought the game. It does make you feel angry that you just gave them your money, why am I already having to give you more?!

It's not bad business practice if people pay for it.

Look, we are entering into a new era of video game marketing.  The proliferation of online accessibility and the ease of wireless distribution removes most of the overhead from publishing additional content.

The good news is that this means there will be a LOT more expansions than pre-electronic distribution.  The bad news is that now this is built into the marketing strategy and DLC will be released as the company exectives dictate in order to maximize the return on investment.

I realize that an entitlement-minded person who has probably pirated more than their share of video games would be offended when the software developers and publishers are actually trying to maximize profit.   The other side of the coin is that more profit means more expansion and that generally means more jobs in a really bad economy

[mockingcrow]

To those saying its optional... drinking clean water is optional. If our government just said F it and started supplying us grey or black water unless you paid extra for the good stuff, would you be happy about that? Granted thats a little bit more then just being optional, but still covers the basic fact that you dont HAVE to drink clean water to live, but it would be an outrage if they tried that.

Its being greedy, the game companies that withhold content on purpose and then overprice that particular content is a joke and goes to show you how much EA doesnt give a **** about its consumer base. Look at the morons who keep buying the same game over and over again with the sims.... Cant wait for the expansion with cats/dogs to come out for a THIRD time in a few months, or being able to go on vacation to an island... OOOOOOH. How about the fact that they nearly took the furniture/furnishings back to the original sims. And even before release they had around a hundred items of DLC already made... THATS B*******.

You are really naive if you think this is acceptable especially with where the worlds economy is going. Let me give you a few pointers.

-Within the next 3 months, gas price in the US is expected to sky rocket since the "peak oil" announcement 2 weeks ago.

-A lot of materials are made with oil, which the world is creating more demand for, hence the term peak oil, meaning our demand has exceeded production(which is also declining)

-Housing market according to optomists is getting better, while real experts say we wont get out of this slump for another 5-10 years, which might worsen due to oil demand as homes farther from the cities wont sell when those people need to move closer to the cities for a new urban lifestyle. Basically, living 20 mins away from the city is going to be like renting an apartment... throwing money into a blackhole for no investment just to sustain your way of life.

-Because of the economy, im sure many students are aware in california, tuition has gone up by 40% and I think 55% for the UCs counting the first and second fee hike.<--- that is ******** ridiculous btw. Min wage in california is $8 last I checked and lot of students for careers are doing free internships, which is actually illegal, but people are doing whatever they can to assure a future right now. Maybe THATS whos designing this DLC !!!! THE INTERNS!

-The people who just bought into the cash for clunkers will most likely not be elligible in 3-4 years for the next generation eco friendly cars(that dont run or are limited, on gas), which is going to be a necessity if gas hikes up to $7+ a gallon.(And thats being optomistic) This means they WILL be paying those gas prices or not driving. GL with that

-Last note about oil, which practically runs our world in one way or another... the reason US prices hasnt been as high as the rest of the world is in part by our own reserves weve been stockpiling for years. But now were tapping into that to make up for the demand, once weve depleted that, the 5 freeway will be EMPTY. Company offices will have to find a way to accomodate working from home. Dumb people will stop buying in to stupid over priced items.


I know its a wall of text, but some of you really need to be enlightened with the concept of money. Unless you're a daddy's boy who was spoon fed a comfy job at daddys firm. HOPE YOU GO BANKRUPT >

[addiction21]

mockingcrow wrote...

To those saying its optional... drinking clean water is optional. If our government just said F it and started supplying us grey or black water unless you paid extra for the good stuff, would you be happy about that? Granted thats a little bit more then just being optional, but still covers the basic fact that you dont HAVE to drink clean water to live, but it would be an outrage if they tried that.

Yes because comparing entertainment to a necessity makes oh so much sense.  Oh and water is not free your paying for it and for it to be clean regardless of it being city, well, or bottled water.

[F-C]

i do agree on the points thing, i have always disliked those systems. as the op mentioned it makes you keep spending an extra dollar or two here and there because you end up with these odd number of points.

i would much rather the DLC was just a flat price, and they dropped the point system entirely. if you want 10$ for a DLC then let me pay you 10$ for it off my credit card or through paypal.


i also think they would have made a much better impression if they had waited a couple weeks before starting to release DLC. having DLC on the day of release is inevitably going to make people feel like side quests were cut out in order to milk some extra money from the players.

weather its true or not doesnt really matter, its the appearance it gives.


i also think that giving ridiculous powerful items out in DLC and having them just pop into your inventory which essentially make the rest of the game trivial is just poor design.

between the point system and being handed overpowered items it leaves a person feeling like they are playing one of those cheesy asian item shop games that are always advertising you can play for free.



im not saying DAO is bad, its not, its an amazing game. however the way these DLC additions are being handled is very very bad.

Modifié par F-C, 22 novembre 2009 - 03:47 .

[Riddley313]

Seifz wrote...

Jolly Jenkins wrote...

I have to agree with the OP on this one.

It is pretty cheap that Bio/EA wants us to pay extra $$ for sidequests that should had came packaged with the original game.

The game already cost $50! Why do I need to spend even more than that?

Because the extra $$ are buying you content that was never part of the original game.  Seriously.  You all need to stop making 10,000 conspiracy theory threads about DLC.

Actually, if you read up on it, DLC like Stone Prisoner was originally part of the game. It was buggy and cut from the final release. So you're basically paying for a little bit of content that had bugs ironed out and a few bells and whistles tacked on. This was probably done intentionally, at least in part. The price for stone prisoner was of course horrendous, and the Bioware points scheme is designed specifically to get people to purchase more than what they need.


The DLC approach is becoming more and more prominent these days in the gaming industry. It's a fairly profitable model (as the sales of DOA DLC indicate). It's not really a conspiracy theory or anything of the like...it's just good buisness, and Bioware/EA are buisnesses after all.

[Daryn Mercio]

Dragon Age: Origins was finished before it was released, but they held the release back to wait for console versions to be released at the same time, which coincidentally, was when they finished their DLC's (WK, SP, and BD armor).

[F-C]

eisberg77 wrote...

The points system is a nessary system to prevent in having to make localized versions of the game to show the local price of the DLCs with in the game. For programming reasons, it is much easier to say it cost 1200 point to get this DLC you buy through the game and download, then it is to put the monetary value for each and every country the game is in, cause this would mean they would need to have several localized versions, and make patches for every localized version.

i disagree with this point entirely.

if you say a DLC is worth 10 usd, then you just use the standard monetary conversion for other countries and there you go.

the system for it is already in place for purchasing the points now.

[wanderon]

I think the whole DLC program is a great way to pay developers so they can continue to add quality official content to a great game without having to jam it all into one or two expansions that you have to wait years for.



Just to be completely clear about this YES I think PAYING for additional official content is a great idea and have absolutely no issues with doing so - if the content fails to meet my expectations I will stop buying it.

[F-C]

eisberg77 wrote...

F-C wrote...

eisberg77 wrote...

The points system is a nessary system to prevent in having to make localized versions of the game to show the local price of the DLCs with in the game. For programming reasons, it is much easier to say it cost 1200 point to get this DLC you buy through the game and download, then it is to put the monetary value for each and every country the game is in, cause this would mean they would need to have several localized versions, and make patches for every localized version.

i disagree with this point entirely.

if you say a DLC is worth 10 usd, then you just use the standard monetary conversion for other countries and there you go.

the system for it is already in place for purchasing the points now.

On the website, but not with in the game.  Within the game to have that conversion rate would mean that would need to patch each country with a localized version to show the price in their monetary value.

It is all about ease of use for the consumer.  It is easier for the consumer to know how much points are in their own currency, then it is to know what the current conversion rate is with their currency to the US dollar and see that in the game.

that just goes back to my point that it makes me feel like im playing a cheesy asian cash store game.

i dont really need my points to show up in the game to purchase DLC, and if your point about only buying the exact points you need to purchase the DLC you wanted holds any water then neither do you.

the only reason to have your points showing in the game is because you want your customers to infact buy points they dont need, so they can just purchase DLC as they play the game without having to be bothered with going to the website.

your 2 points are a direct contradiction of each other.



i would be much happier if they just removed the point system entirely because its not needed.

if i want to buy a DLC then i go to the website, purchase it like a mini-expansion pack, then download and install it.

the end.

[F-C]

eisberg77 wrote...

Umm, no.  The DLC interface is there for a couple of reasons.
1- To make it easier to download the DLCs and activate them with in the game.  It is about ease of use
2- It is a way to advertise and inform people of the DLCs available

You are right, it is not needed, but not everything is about 'Need', sometime it is just about making things easier.

1 - ease of use at the cost of making your customers feel like the system is designed to take advantage of them is not really a good thing.

2 - you could still advertise in the game in the same manner, just put "go buy it at the website now!" 



anyways the only reason i can think of is for console users, but at the same time they need to purchase points somehow and i dont see why however thats handled cant just be converted into purchase DLC.

Modifié par F-C, 22 novembre 2009 - 05:06 .