260 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantevilhead]

Part of Bishop's dislike of Casavir is because Casavir is a paladin, who's swore to protect the weak and the innocent and all those who can't protect themselves. Traveling with Casavir not only means having to deal with his holier than thou condescending attitude, it also means having to help every random weakling they meet. There is also the risk that Casavir might save Bishop's life and that's something Bishop cannot abide.

[Vaalyah]

@ Sarethus: so in your opinion, what makes Bishop interested in the PC is her leader success?
By the way, the sentence you quoted is said by Bishop also for a male PC? Or is it strictly related to the romance?

[Dikaro]

From playing NWN2 what i got was that Bishop cared for the PC if she was independent and able to hold her own. A ranger Bishop traveled with shows up in Post Llast (Malin). Which leads to the conversation that you should be looking out for yourself and not others.

If i look a little deeper i think by betraying the PC he was trying to driver her away because he knew it wouldn’t work and would rather kill her then have her die by the king of shadow or reject him 'i know this is a stretch'.

[mungbean]

You guys realise all the OC characters are written as very pretentious teen personalities (ie. for the American young teen market). Seriously if you're over twelve and went to school liking Bishop is a little disappointing for a chick.

All of them are "me me me" all the way through and that's annoying enough but Bishop is this and antisocial which about gives him the IQ of a pot plant. He's got wife beater written all over him.
I get as far as the first trip to Ember and want to kill him off every playthrough I ever did, just for humanity sake. He's like leaving ebola virus spilled all over a kitchen bench and going, nah I won't bother cleaning that up.

Needless to say the very first time I played when the game was released I found his "betrayal" utterly predictable. When he got mouthy from the start I shut him down whever the dialogue option was there and never put him in the party unless forced. And odd thing, no matter what alignment I've started with, I always wind up lawful good. Funny, not a single character I've played would've let Bishop leave Ember walking upright, not one.

Modifié par mungbean, 02 septembre 2011 - 05:03 .

[HoonDing]

Bishop's voice-over alone was enough for me to kick him out of my party for posterity as soon as I was able. At least he could be Disintegrated in the end.

[Vaalyah]

@Mungbean: :-D :-D :-D let me guess: you're a male, aren't you? I can assure you that, even if I'm not in my teen any more, there are THOUSANDS of males behaving like (and even worse than) Bishop in real life! I think he's the more round character, just because his behaviour is realistic.

@Virumor: the Italian dubber has a very nice voice :-) But I've heard that also in BG2, English dubbers were not good.

[mungbean]

Well I certainly hope I'm a male, I was real subtle about it but was basically asking you out

lol just kidding, it's that sexy elfy picture. Ah Elanee, she just can't do wrong by me
But seriously though they're a bit slow with the romance hook development, I'd moved on from Neeshka and was ready to buy a ring about ten minutes after meeting the long haired druidess.

yup, I'm a guy hahaha

[I_Raps]

mungbean wrote...

lol just kidding, it's that sexy elfy picture. Ah Elanee, she just can't do wrong by me

You don't remember every male's favorite fallen paladin Aribeth?  You're showing your (lack of) age.

[Zaxares]

I_Raps wrote...

mungbean wrote...

lol just kidding, it's that sexy elfy picture. Ah Elanee, she just can't do wrong by me

You don't remember every male's favorite fallen paladin Aribeth?  You're showing your (lack of) age.

Nah, LINU was where it was at.

[Seagloom]

I liked Linu, but she got over her dead husband way too quickly for my tastes. NWN's OC had pretty bad romances all around. Give me Valen any day.

[Vaalyah]

@ mungbean: to say the truth, I almost hate Aribeth. Too good to be true at the beginning and too suddenly-bad at the end to be credible. However, since, even if I have DA:O, I am totally unable to load a custom avatar, she was the only female elf available :-P

[HoonDing]

I'm guessing the Linu romance subplot ended the same way as Sharwyn's?

[mungbean]

I was always a Raistlin guy myself but that dude got it wrong big time on motivation. Loses a few IQ points for the fact the whole entire reason even for developing such thing as the ultimate power in the universe sitting under the sunshine next to your parents birdbath torturing kittens was always and ever, only and always to pick up chicks man.

Alzheimers, it's killing America.

[Vaalyah]

Maybe it's a language issue but... I don't think I've understood your comment :-(

[mungbean]

I tend to be a bit like Raistlin socially. You know, polite, might kill you, eclectic.

I don't half these names, I was out of rpg for a while, so pretty much went from 2nd Edition tabletop to NWN2.

[XEternalXDreamX]

I had almost made a new OC game just to be an C.E. female character to see how Bishop was on "friendlier" terms and see how far the relationship could go. But luckily, there were ways to find out what conversations/scenes that happen with him. He's one of those characters that really add entertainment value. Yet, he's kind of like a "one-trick pony" and I mean that in the nicest way possible. Besides a few lines, he's evil and likes if you are evil [the end]. A "Real" relationship with the female PC wouldn't have been possible if they would have wanted to keep his personality as solid. I couldn't imagine why females would want to be with his type of character but then I think.. why would they want to be with an old boring paladin guy? Lol. Anyway, his personality is interesting and beyond that, not much besides the C.E. female wanting a spanking from a Bishop. Lol.

[Vaalyah]

To say the truth, I am sincerely perplexed about Casavir... I still don't have a clue about WHY they made him so old, so totally unattractive, so totally boring, so totally predictable... Really, I far prefer Anomem from BG2 as paladin-like love interest...

[XEternalXDreamX]

I know you like Bishop a lot, I got a question about him. What attracts you [your PC] to him? I'm a man IRL but I'm comfortable enough to say that Bishop has better things going for his looks than Casavir. I wanted to ask Casavir after talking about the Well..
"Why do you like me so much? Please don't tell it's about something I did at the Well.."
I find Bishop interesting but I can't put my finger on why females would romance him. I feel as almost that he would kill you if the price or reward was enough plus treat you like dirt. And if you take an independent woman attitude, he would likely feel intimidated if you don't agree with his [evil] ways or his orders.

[Seagloom]

That independent attitude is exactly why most of my female characters lost influence with Bishop hand over fist. She is in charge. Whenever Bishop, Sand, Casavir or whoever else try to push her around with their advice, she puts them in their place. That is probably why I rarely end up with exceedingly influence with any single NPC; except Khelgar and Shandra. I rarely pick the answers they want to hear. I go with what makes sense for my character.

On Casavir: I think it can be attributed to cut content. Casavir was supposed to have a history with Ophala Cheldarstorn that led to his disgrace and eventual flight to Old Owl Well. He was probably meant to be the good guy who made a few mistakes, and is desperately seeking to atone for them. Unfortunately most of his development is gone, and his personality, as noted, is boring. Anomen was infinitely more interesting in comparison to Casavir. So was Mantides in Mysteries of Westgate; although he was not a love interest.

Modifié par Seagloom, 13 septembre 2011 - 02:18 .

[Vaalyah]

@ Eternal Dream: I don't think it is a "look" matter. As soon as I started playing NWN2, my first statement was "Oh, look at all the characters... they're SO ugly!". I came from Sims2, where you can really customize your character till s/he looks real. In fact I was quite disappointed when I had to create my PC, due to the lack of options. I downloaded some custom heads, then chose the less-ugly one :-D So, let's forget about the look (they're just pixel!) and let's focus on something else.
I have a very strong nature. I am bad-tempered, I immediately get angry, I can't stand people always claiming pity or attention to themselves. So Casavir is totally annoying from my point of view: "Oh, I'm here to protect you!!!". "I don't need any damn protection! Go, stand back two steps, while I kill all these enemies!" That's my attitude. So finding someone that's not behaving like if I am a totally stupid 5-years-old crying child is a big point. I like Bishop's attitude because I think it's a sort of match. Is he rude? I can be ruder. Is he unkind? I can be more. Is he trying to make me feel useless? I can show him HE is the useless one. And during the game, when Bishop and Casavir quarrel, you can hear his real opinion. "Don't be defending her honour, she can do it herself. And unlike you, paladin, I know she can". That usually is the true reason behind a behaviour like Bishop's. Casavir actually thinks the PC is a sort of poor victim, totally unable to do anything if he's not around. Bishop is rude and cranky because he is trying to see if the PC is strong enough. Not "evil" enough, but "strong" enough. That's what I like. Hope I've been clear. In case not, just ask. :-)

[Esther]

Vaalyah wrote...

@ Eternal Dream: I don't think it is a "look" matter. As soon as I started playing NWN2, my first statement was "Oh, look at all the characters... they're SO ugly!". I came from Sims2, where you can really customize your character till s/he looks real. In fact I was quite disappointed when I had to create my PC, due to the lack of options. I downloaded some custom heads, then chose the less-ugly one :-D So, let's forget about the look (they're just pixel!) and let's focus on something else.
I have a very strong nature. I am bad-tempered, I immediately get angry, I can't stand people always claiming pity or attention to themselves. So Casavir is totally annoying from my point of view: "Oh, I'm here to protect you!!!". "I don't need any damn protection! Go, stand back two steps, while I kill all these enemies!" That's my attitude. So finding someone that's not behaving like if I am a totally stupid 5-years-old crying child is a big point. I like Bishop's attitude because I think it's a sort of match. Is he rude? I can be ruder. Is he unkind? I can be more. Is he trying to make me feel useless? I can show him HE is the useless one. And during the game, when Bishop and Casavir quarrel, you can hear his real opinion. "Don't be defending her honour, she can do it herself. And unlike you, paladin, I know she can". That usually is the true reason behind a behaviour like Bishop's. Casavir actually thinks the PC is a sort of poor victim, totally unable to do anything if he's not around. Bishop is rude and cranky because he is trying to see if the PC is strong enough. Not "evil" enough, but "strong" enough. That's what I like. Hope I've been clear. In case not, just ask. :-)

Couldn't agree more!! 
Bishop is entertaining with his sharp tongue, refreshing in his reluctance to engage in social obligations, challenges the PC and adds a pinch of salt to the whole, while Casavir doesn't come with "big surprises".  
Besides, Bishop's looks aren't to his disadvantage 

[Vaalyah]

I think that all "Bishop's fans" find his way of behaving challenging ;-)

[HoonDing]

I gotta hand it to Obsidian, at least Bishop always remains the same despicable, vile and irredeemable person he is from beginning to the end.

"Evil" romance interests in other games can usually be redeemed and/or weren't evil in the first place but rather a product of their environment and upbringing (Viconia, Morrigan, etc.).

That said, though, I still wish I could've at the very least kick the jerk out of my keep.

Modifié par virumor, 14 septembre 2011 - 12:08 .

[Vaalyah]

Instead, I wish we could find a decent outcome. The Bishop's romance has been abruptly deleted and the Romance Mod still can't change the end of the plot so, in a certain sense, is useless :-(

[kevL]

hey Vaal,

not entirely. just difficult - Bishop's behavior is determined through dialog and scripting (so is almost everything else). I mean, i can imagine a change being done where for example instead of betraying the PC at the KoS he declares his everlasting fealty, goes 80 pts. Lawful and is reborn. When KoS appears, Bishop's faith fills the room in a white light and suddenly PC + Bishop re-appear in the area where the Wenderkazoo was found. A small tent and a campfire (might) appear, Bishop gains 5 bard levels and plays a tune .. the dialog fades and game ends w/ PC + Bishop plotting the overthrow of Nasher.


fun, i'd like that sort of ending with Elanee ( no, I'm not joking )

Modifié par kevL, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:10 .