80 réponses à ce sujet

[BellatrixLugosi]

Zulu, (hands zulu a box) put your personal feelings in this box ok?



Turian for a Turian, Asari for a Asari, Krogan for Krogan, etc etc that simple Im just saying the alien's might be represented again in the next squad.

[PROKNIFER69]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

luk3us wrote...

If you get everyone killed in ME2 you shouldn't get placeholders at all. You get nothing.

To be honest, that's how it should be.

ya have to have atleast 1 squad member left to survive teh last mission.

[Count Viceroy]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Zulu, (hands zulu a box) put your personal feelings in this box ok?

Turian for a Turian, Asari for a Asari, Krogan for Krogan, etc etc that simple Im just saying the alien's might be represented again in the next squad.

What's the point of having an expendable team in Me2 if you'll recieve cardboard cutout replacements in Me3 if they die, along with the extra voicework, 3d modeling etc Yeah, no, not going to happen.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 21 août 2010 - 06:47 .

[Shadow_broker]

PROKNIFER69 wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

luk3us wrote...

If you get everyone killed in ME2 you shouldn't get placeholders at all. You get nothing.

To be honest, that's how it should be.

ya have to have atleast 1 squad member left to survive teh last mission.

Actually you need 2, On my fail save miranda was the only survivor and grunt in the pod
Shepard fell to his death
Was hoping for some extra dialagoue of her reporting to the illusive man but was still joker

[Jaron Oberyn]

I find it amusing that this same group is on this. We already disproved this "placeholder" talk in the other thread. Bioware isn't going to reduce the mass 2 team to cameos. You will not be rewarded for being careless. If your team died, sucks to be you but you'll live with the consequence.



The reasons bioware will not get rid of the team are obvious. For one, bioware said that the entire games focus is the squad. That these were the most differentiated characters they've ever done. If that's the case why make a whole new team?



Another reason, nobody left at the end if the game. If anything they were getting their weapons ready for whatever is coming next.



And another reason. Shepard has already recruited the galaxies most dangerous individuals. Why recruit another team when he already has the best? The reapers are coming and the team is just going to disband? Yeah makes no sense at all. But neither does anything that smudy or Zulu post.



But wait, there's more. It would require much more work for bioware to create a whole new team, create the assets for the team all over again, write them into the plot, write the recruiting and loyalty missions, etc. While also writing out the current 12 member squad, Which most of them, including garrus, legion, tali, Miranda and Jacob, have no reason to leave at all.



Unless you have experience in the field, you won't realize that it will take much longer to create a whol new team than it would be to usethe existing team. Bioware said get want to get the third game out quicker so that people wont have to wait long. If that's the case, they'll be focusing on story and using their current assets instead of creating new ones and then integrating them into the story.



As for the argument that not everyone will get to see the content, well that's the case with both games already. That's what makes it unique for each player. Bioware knew why they were doing. Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean it can't happen.



Now to this placeholder theory, there were no mass effect squad placeholders at all. Never were and never will be. If you didn't recruit garrus or wrex in the first game, you didn't get a placeholder to replace them. And also the word placeholder doesn't even fit the meaning of your theory. Might want to look up the definition of the word.



-Polite

[JGDD]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
The reasons bioware will not get rid of the team are obvious. For one, bioware said that the entire games focus is the squad. That these were the most differentiated characters they've ever done. If that's the case why make a whole new team?

The entire team can be eliminated? Please tell me you don't believe they'll do another Cerberus voodoo magic thing and resurrect the entire squad because it's easier than writing new characters.


EDIT: Regardless if you kept them alive or not, there will be a new team at your disposal. Basing this on the simple fact that some will jump into the game at the third installment. This suggests that the former squad members may or may not be included from the get go. Also offers BioWare an easy out to continue with new character development.

Modifié par justgimmedudedammit, 21 août 2010 - 08:30 .

[McBeath]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
The reasons bioware will not get rid of the team are obvious. For one, bioware said that the entire games focus is the squad. That these were the most differentiated characters they've ever done. If that's the case why make a whole new team?

The entire team can be eliminated? Please tell me you don't believe they'll do another Cerberus voodoo magic thing and resurrect the entire squad because it's easier than writing new characters.


EDIT: Regardless if you kept them alive or not, there will be a new team at your disposal. Basing this on the simple fact that some will jump into the game at the third installment. This suggests that the former squad members may or may not be included from the get go. Also offers BioWare an easy out to continue with new character development.

It's know that they will create new characters, as stated by Casy Hudson.  What isn't known is how many.  It's completely possible that a few ME2 characters are gonna return if they live, and won't be there if they die(kinda like bonus characters).  The new characters would be needed to drive the plot(in addition to the ME1 guys) if all your squadmates are dead in ME2.

I don't think they'll REWARD players for having a "bad" playthrough though, the placeholders will only exist for plot required NPC's that can't join your party.  I don't see Tali being replaced by Veetor for example.  There is absolutely no reason for it, and would amount to some terrable writing on Biowares part.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Casey Hudson stated that you will meet new characters. He never said squadmates. A character isn't necessarily a squadmate. And just because people will jump into the third game doesn't mean you have to have a new squad. It just means that there will be another "the story so far" kind of intro for the players who haven't played the first two. If your hoping for a new squad, your going to be in for a disappointment.



-Polite

[McBeath]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Casey Hudson stated that you will meet new characters. He never said squadmates. A character isn't necessarily a squadmate. And just because people will jump into the third game doesn't mean you have to have a new squad. It just means that there will be another "the story so far" kind of intro for the players who haven't played the first two. If your hoping for a new squad, your going to be in for a disappointment.

-Polite

I don't believe so.  I think that there will be at least a few new squadmates(see my posts in the returning squad thread).  
 
They will need to cover the bases in regards to a legal import of only 2 surviving squadmates from ME2 just to ensure that regardless of what class you play you have access to characters that support you with thier skill sets.

Now, I can see that only 4-5 ME2 characters will be "marked" as returning, unless they die in which case you'll be missing them all together.  I don't see placeholders as these characters aren't plot required.  That way an ME3 squad could number 7 at the fewest to 12 at the most(assuming 12 available character spots).  With 2 ME1 characters likely to return that leaves between 5 and 6 open spots.

[JGDD]

McBeath wrote...
I don't think they'll REWARD players for having a "bad" playthrough though, the placeholders will only exist for plot required NPC's that can't join your party.  I don't see Tali being replaced by Veetor for example.  There is absolutely no reason for it, and would amount to some terrable writing on Biowares part.

Maybe...

I hope play (your decisions) has real ramifications especially when it comes to Tali's part. I went in every possible direction with her character including turning over the evidence to the admirals at her trial. That would almost certainly exclude her from sticking around with you based on your actions and her responses for that scenario. Then again, BioWare could just as easily have her shrug it off and continue making circuit boards do FTL jumps in her spare time in the engineering department.

One possible outcome I wish they would  incorporate in this instance is having her rejoin the fleet and become an admiral herself. Thereby proving Shep was right all along and that it was for the best.

Modifié par justgimmedudedammit, 21 août 2010 - 09:13 .

[IoCaster]

smudboy wrote...

Aside from two, ME2's squadmates can all die.

Therefore, it's possible we'll get placeholders if we intend to get a similar, "full ME2" team back.  For example:

Tali->Kal'Reegar->Daro'Xen

What characters would you like to see, and who will they replace?  You can also do this with other characters that might die (Rachni, Hanar, etc.)

Let's make it interesting...

Gardner -> ADLegend21 - Commode custodian and perennial BioWare apologist.

Miranda -> PoliteAssasin - Anybody can come back as a squad member in ME3 hold the biotic shield.

Jacob -> IanPolaris - Zaeed didn't go to OCS so he sucks and I hate mercs. Step off fools, I'm "Teh Priize!"

Delan -> Mesina2 - Forever dumb and paranoid.

Jack -> BellatrixLugosi - Psychotic Biotic Dyslexic.

I'll throw in a semi-legit entry...

Samara -> Seryna - A cool Asari with an interesting background as an ex-security chief for Nassana Dantius . 

[JGDD]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Casey Hudson stated that you will meet new characters. He never said squadmates. A character isn't necessarily a squadmate. And just because people will jump into the third game doesn't mean you have to have a new squad. It just means that there will be another "the story so far" kind of intro for the players who haven't played the first two. If your hoping for a new squad, your going to be in for a disappointment.

-Polite

At this point you have no idea if that is true or not. In any of the myriad outcomes it doesn't matter in the end. The character is an hero and will use whatever is at his/her disposal to finish the job. Squad members or not, Shep, or the potential replacement, will be able to defeat the enemy.

[McBeath]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

McBeath wrote...
I don't think they'll REWARD players for having a "bad" playthrough though, the placeholders will only exist for plot required NPC's that can't join your party.  I don't see Tali being replaced by Veetor for example.  There is absolutely no reason for it, and would amount to some terrable writing on Biowares part.

Maybe...

I hope play (your decisions) has real ramifications especially when it comes to Tali's part. I went in every possible direction with her character including turning over the evidence to the admirals at her trial. That would almost certainly exclude her from sticking around with you based on your actions and her responses for that scenario. Then again, BioWare could just as easily have her shrug it off and continue making circuit boards do FTL jumps in her spare time in the engineering department.

One possible outcome I wish they would  incorporate in this instance is having her rejoin the fleet and become an admiral herself. Thereby proving Shep was right all along and that it was for the best.

I think they'd still have her just deal with it frankly.  I don't see them being able to do that many different outcomes to our decisions.  They'll focus on the big ones, instead of worrying about every single choice having consiquences.   Instead, I could see a part where IF tali is still in the fleet then it will be mentioned in dialog and make your job easier, where if she's a known exile(and assumed traitor) they'll mention that and make your job harder. 

Sometimes being a jerk just means your a jerk.  Granted, Tali may really dislike you after that, but if she really thinks that she needs to be on the Normandy to save the galaxy I'm sure she'll suck it up long enough to get the job done.  Plenty of real world leaders are disliked by there troops, though they still get the job done so people will fight for them.  Patton could be a real jerk to his troops at times, but look what he did.

[epoch_]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I find it amusing that this same group is on this. We already disproved this "placeholder" talk in the other thread. Bioware isn't going to reduce the mass 2 team to cameos. You will not be rewarded for being careless. If your team died, sucks to be you but you'll live with the consequence.

The reasons bioware will not get rid of the team are obvious. For one, bioware said that the entire games focus is the squad. That these were the most differentiated characters they've ever done. If that's the case why make a whole new team?

Another reason, nobody left at the end if the game. If anything they were getting their weapons ready for whatever is coming next.

And another reason. Shepard has already recruited the galaxies most dangerous individuals. Why recruit another team when he already has the best? The reapers are coming and the team is just going to disband? Yeah makes no sense at all. But neither does anything that smudy or Zulu post.

But wait, there's more. It would require much more work for bioware to create a whole new team, create the assets for the team all over again, write them into the plot, write the recruiting and loyalty missions, etc. While also writing out the current 12 member squad, Which most of them, including garrus, legion, tali, Miranda and Jacob, have no reason to leave at all.

Unless you have experience in the field, you won't realize that it will take much longer to create a whol new team than it would be to usethe existing team. Bioware said get want to get the third game out quicker so that people wont have to wait long. If that's the case, they'll be focusing on story and using their current assets instead of creating new ones and then integrating them into the story.

As for the argument that not everyone will get to see the content, well that's the case with both games already. That's what makes it unique for each player. Bioware knew why they were doing. Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean it can't happen.

Now to this placeholder theory, there were no mass effect squad placeholders at all. Never were and never will be. If you didn't recruit garrus or wrex in the first game, you didn't get a placeholder to replace them. And also the word placeholder doesn't even fit the meaning of your theory. Might want to look up the definition of the word.

-Polite

oh lawdy

[JGDD]

McBeath wrote...
I think they'd still have her just deal with it frankly.  I don't see them being able to do that many different outcomes to our decisions.  They'll focus on the big ones, instead of worrying about every single choice having consiquences.   Instead, I could see a part where IF tali is still in the fleet then it will be mentioned in dialog and make your job easier, where if she's a known exile(and assumed traitor) they'll mention that and make your job harder.

Unfortunately I believe this will be the case making "hard choices" rather beside the point of making them in the first place.

Sometimes being a jerk just means your a jerk.  Granted, Tali may really dislike you after that, but if she really thinks that she needs to be on the Normandy to save the galaxy I'm sure she'll suck it up long enough to get the job done.  Plenty of real world leaders are disliked by there troops, though they still get the job done so people will fight for them.  Patton could be a real jerk to his troops at times, but look what he did.

I never considered this decision (turning over evidence) a jerk move. I sat and really had to think of what my actions would do in the grand plan. For me it was a way of forcing Tali to consider her own self worth before the actions of her father and not be a lemming and dive head long over that cliff. I spent nearly 20 minutes mulling this over my first time and am glad I choose to take this path as one of the options.

[PsyrenY]

luk3us wrote...

If you get everyone killed in ME2 you shouldn't get placeholders at all. You get nothing.

This. The fact that you need two squadmates to survive in order to import your save at all also tells me there won't be anyone new. They won't even have to change the combat system that way.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Yeah makes no sense at all. But neither does anything that smudy or Zulu post.

-Polite

You are my idol

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 21 août 2010 - 09:47 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Optimystic_X wrote...

luk3us wrote...

If you get everyone killed in ME2 you shouldn't get placeholders at all. You get nothing.

This. The fact that you need two squadmates to survive in order to import your save at all also tells me there won't be anyone new. They won't even have to change the combat system that way.

Christina has pretty much confirmed that the combat system won't be changed in any significant way.

[epoch_]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

luk3us wrote...

If you get everyone killed in ME2 you shouldn't get placeholders at all. You get nothing.

This. The fact that you need two squadmates to survive in order to import your save at all also tells me there won't be anyone new. They won't even have to change the combat system that way.

Christina has pretty much confirmed that the combat system won't be changed in any significant way.

I'd like crouch back.

[Fiery Phoenix]

epoch_ wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

luk3us wrote...

If you get everyone killed in ME2 you shouldn't get placeholders at all. You get nothing.

This. The fact that you need two squadmates to survive in order to import your save at all also tells me there won't be anyone new. They won't even have to change the combat system that way.

Christina has pretty much confirmed that the combat system won't be changed in any significant way.

I'd like crouch back.

Me too. Very much so, actually. She never said they would keep the exact same combat system, but it will be basically the same. Probably with a few additional tweaks. Hopefully crouching is one of them.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 21 août 2010 - 09:54 .

[erilben]

Mac Walters said before that if a character can die in the first game, they have to reduce their role in the second game. He even talked about these "placeholders". He gave Wrex as an example.
http://www.joystiq.c...-mass-effect-2/

Modifié par erilben, 21 août 2010 - 10:00 .

[epoch_]

Your link has an extra http://

[epoch_]

ugh, I can't wait until BW starts talking about ME3.

[BellatrixLugosi]

Count Viceroy wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Zulu, (hands zulu a box) put your personal feelings in this box ok?

Turian for a Turian, Asari for a Asari, Krogan for Krogan, etc etc that simple Im just saying the alien's might be represented again in the next squad.

What's the point of having an expendable team in Me2 if you'll recieve cardboard cutout replacements in Me3 if they die, along with the extra voicework, 3d modeling etc Yeah, no, not going to happen.

And potiental corpse's for a me3 squad makes just makes about as much sense then cardboard cutout replacement's then.  this is a old arguement, and I hope the community doesn't get what they want for me3

[Criz]

I'd support a "new squadmembers can be recruited and additionally you can re-recruit the ones that survive the suicide mission and those who survived in ME1"-theory
well you should at least be able to meet people who survived ME2, maybe they have some important position/mission now?
it would be cruel if you'd have to recruit people like Conrad and Parasini for failing your more or less loyal team
given that ME3 is the end of the trilogy, I'm not sure I'm expecting placeholders since they can bring the game to an end without worrying about another part. And one of the possible outcomes should be 'death by Reaper'
so placeholders, well not for 'active' squadmembers, possibly for situations like Wrex in ME2, where just someone takes his place and it may require Shepard to put more effort into achieving something... like unified Krogans fighting by your side might be alot more plausible if Wrex was alive instead of Wreav leading Clan Urdnot
*argh* can't think straight, getting swoony by looking at epoch's Matt Horner avatar

[Jaron Oberyn]

erilben wrote...

Mac Walters said before that if a character can die in the first game, they have to reduce their role in the second game. He even talked about these "placeholders". He gave Wrex as an example.
http://www.joystiq.c...-mass-effect-2/

"But they don't just come in and go, you know, "I'm Wrex alternate," or something like that. It's a new character who has his own back story, who has his own role in the game and whatnot."

That refers to Wrex rebuilding the Krogan, and Wreav not doing anything at all for them. It's not that it's hard to have made Wrex a squad, it's just that it was the second game of the trilogy, and they were constrained to how much they could do with people using the second game as an entry point. 

"Yeah, it's going to be more work and it's a trilogy. Three is even going to be more, you know, like we're looking back at two games at that point and saying, "Wow. Okay, so what do we do now?"

An IGN Article, 

http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1055366p2.html

"Our chat closed with talk about the challenges BioWare is facing in terms of delivering real choice to the player without letting the story spiral out of control.

It has to be one or the either. Either you really let people's choices have repercussion. Or, the choice doesn't really affect things and then things end up coming back together.As we're doing parts one and two, we have a really difficult challenge in terms of creating very different outcomes and yet being able to continue the story. The good thing about the third one will be that we no longer have that constraint and things can diverge as far as we can make them go.

That act[b]ually will be our goal with the whole trilogy. To take all of the things you've done in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and then just let it go. Let it diverge into wildly different conclusions. That's the real fun of having played Mass Effect 1 and 2 and then going into the third one will be that you've set all of these things in motion and now we can let them diverge. I'm not worried that people will play it and think 'Oh well I missed all of this content that would have been different if I had made other choices' because what that does is make you interested in replaying it. The replay value of Mass Effect 1 was huge, but Mass Effect 2 is much more so and I think it just continues into the conclusion of the trilogy."


So once again, placeholders? Imbalance due to content that some players might not get? Yeeaaahh- NO.

BTW, have any of you guys seen this smudboy kid's videos on youtube? Check his signature, even take a look at the threads he's created. Talk about a troll. This guy obviously makes friends easily. 

-Polite

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 22 août 2010 - 01:49 .