282 réponses à ce sujet

[Boombox]

Darth Drago wrote...


Personally getting about 2 hours of game play at best with the mission packs are not to badly priced if you expect and like nothing but short diversions. As entertaining as they may be, that’s all they are just short diversions. Diversions that are not even fully voiced when it comes to your squad and the Normandy crew, just the standard basic replies you have heard before.

Your usually not getting much extra in these things. Compare these downloads to what you get in downloads for other games (Borderlands, Fallout 3, Resident Evil 5 or even a full games like Hydro Thunder from X-box live) with concern to price and content and you might start seeing that these low prices are really not worth it at all. Even when they cost a little more, a lot of them give you a ton more content in them from raising the level cap, new weapons and armor and several new maps/areas for missions.

Others like Koie with Dynasty Warriors 6: Empires game had 4 costume packs (with each pack consisting of 2 male and 2 female costumes) that were free and they were all released every two weeks. Here at BioWare we still haven’t heard a word on the second Alternate Appearance Pack yet and its been several months since the first one came out.

Why not load up Overlord for example, with 1 or 2 N7 armor piece and put that Geth shotgun in it (instead of putting that gun in a weapon pack you need to buy separately)?

Look at Lair of the Shadow Broker. Not only is it getting the 2 hour mission treatment ( I expected it to be a lot bigger) but all of the new weapons that we see in the screen shots were sold separately in the Firepower Pack. I guess adding them in the Shadow Broker download would have been to tough right?

I’m not to fond of these weapon, armor and the alternate but reskinned appearance packs when they could have been added in these mission downloads. It seems like a cheap tactic to get us to spend money on a few little things that should have been added in these mission downloads. With the masters (EA) calling the shots on these things its not surprising to see their nickel and diming tactics at work with their new cash cow.

All I can say for sure is at least with ME2 we are getting better overall quality with new locations that you can play in each time you play ME2 instead of the reused location treatment crap with quests that are stand alone and outside of the main game as well as with all the bugs they come with that we get with Dragon Age.

I completely agree with you! I don't understand why some weapons or armour can't be included in some of the bigger packs.
I think the Kasumi DLC is worth the price and Overlord is good and would've been worth it if we got a weapon or something at the end but I'm not sure about the others. I think the appearance pack is a complete rip off. Only 3 outfits for 160? So the whole crew would cost 640?

[PROKNIFER69]

Were paying for stuff that was ment to be in the game, stuff like that should be free but extra litttle addons that were not should cost something.

[Thompson family]

Re: OP



No.

[Siegdrifa]

PROKNIFER69 wrote...

Were paying for stuff that was ment to be in the game, stuff like that should be free but extra litttle addons that were not should cost something.

NO.

Even in some case (kasumi / liara dlc) you can find some file related to it doesn't mean it should be free, it could be planed at the beginning to include them in the game but never had the time to finish it before the dead line (and if you cross dead line, you just don't get a "please, can you finish it quicly?" it can cost the company undred of thousand dollars/euro).

So instead of throwing to the bin everything that couldn't be devlopped in time they finish it later and release it as a DLC.

If you think when ME2 was released, they kept kasumi, overlord and liara already completed for latter, you are absolutly wrong.

[Burdokva]

So, they couldn't just postpone release date? Or altogether announce a later one in the first place?

Besides, do you have any idea exactly how much time it takes to create the 3D model, texture and sound effect files for the weapon packs? Any good modder can finish it within a day or two, working on a full day schedule, and we're talking about a team of paid professionals here. Plus, all of the DLC weapons are in the art book as early concepts. Planning ahead for large content is one thing, cutting away purposefully things to resell them later is completely different.

Siegdrifa wrote...

If you think when ME2 was released, they kept kasumi, overlord and liara already completed for latter, you are absolutly wrong.

Sure. Just as you're wrong that they couldn't have easily released all of the small "Equalizer", "Firepower" and "Aegis" pack with the game itself. You've noticed that screenshots of the completed weapons and armor appear months before the actual mini-DLC packs?

They're not added to large DLC because it's not wise from a marketing perspective, either. If they charge 10$ for "Overlord" many people would deem it too pricey. Release it for 8$, followed by some weapon/armor pack for 2$ and humans think it's cheaper, even though in the end they (the publisher) make the same amount of money. It's the way human psychology works, an inherent flaw. Just like how products are always labeled x.99$ .  

Modifié par Burdokva, 22 août 2010 - 07:12 .

[ShadoX_LV]

The thing about the ME2 DLC is that most of it should be free except for Kasumi/Overlord/Liara.. I mean.. really, guns and skins for your characters? Either BW ran out of time while making the game or they planed that already from the get go.. The first game allowed the player to find plenty of weapons and armors for all the characters, yet you barely see anything of that in the second game. It obviously looks like BW changed that all so that they could just squeeze out more money from the customers.. (well, either BW or EA.. as much as I hope that it wasn't BW's idea.. you never can know)

Just look at the skins and weapons.. They might be cheaper then the mission DLC, but try comparing the two.. During the missions you get entire levels and probably even a new/old voice actor doing some more work. I get the idea behind that, but weapons/skins? Thers no way that they put that much effort into them.. mostly with the weapons being a lot more powerful... throwing out balance in favor of a few $...

Another thing is that releasing content for free might actually pay off in the long run.. if people are happy with it and like the game, then info like that will get around which probably will result in more sales..

Heck, I didn't even know the term DLC until this generation of consoles.. And I ahve been playing PC games for a while now..

[edit] I actually remember first hearing about the plans for DLC for some game.. it probably was one of those guitar games.. back then (which wasn't that long ago.. probably 1~2 years) I was actually thinking that something like that (paid DLC) would never catch on and look where we are now.. people are willing to shell out cash for nothing.. Its just sad to see the industry moving into that direction..

Modifié par ShadoX_LV, 22 août 2010 - 07:53 .

[Siegdrifa]

Burdokva wrote...

So, they couldn't just postpone release date? Or altogether announce a later one in the first place?

Besides, do you have any idea exactly how much time it takes to create the 3D model, texture and sound effect files for the weapon packs? Any good modder can finish it within a day or two, working on a full day schedule, and we're talking about a team of paid professionals here. Plus, all of the DLC weapons are in the art book as early concepts. Planning ahead for large content is one thing, cutting away purposefully things to resell them later is completely different.

Siegdrifa wrote...

If you think when ME2 was released, they kept kasumi, overlord and liara already completed for latter, you are absolutly wrong.

Sure. Just as you're wrong that they couldn't have easily released all of the small "Equalizer", "Firepower" and "Aegis" pack with the game itself. You've noticed that screenshots of the completed weapons and armor appear months before the actual mini-DLC packs?

They're not added to large DLC because it's not wise from a marketing perspective, either. If they charge 10$ for "Overlord" many people would deem it too pricey. Release it for 8$, followed by some weapon/armor pack for 2$ and humans think it's cheaper, even though in the end they (the publisher) make the same amount of money. It's the way human psychology works, an inherent flaw. Just like how products are always labeled x.99$ .  

Sorry but even being here in the art book from the begining doesn't mean it was ready to be implemented in games or even made (i'm not talking about the phalanx).

Pre production always produce more for the project.
It's always usefull to have more reference than needed, but usually it end up without enough time to complet everything as they wished.

Creating video games is a constant fight agains the time. And also a constant fight agains bugs and  impredictable problems that show up, then fixed and sometimes reapear like ghost.


We can easly tell that kasumi and overlord wasn't ready by the time ME2 was realease, because we just need to look at the texture and architecture chart, they are too deffirent from the original game to be devlopped at the same time, otherwise, they would have used them to creat more diversity in ME2 level and not use this precious ressources for on level like they did.
We can also stat that overlord offer new perspective of combat from a level builder point of view, so it's not possible that they actualy made it when they built the other map of ME2.

You don't agree with their process exploiting the mini pack, i agree too, from a gamer point of view, if they add them to bigger DLC, it would make it a lot better.
Insted, they try to get more juice ... i don't realy blame them, companys no matter their activity have only one purpuse : make money.

As a customer we can just decide if it's fair for our wallet or not.
At that point it's not that much about "how long it took to make it". Only a few hours is required to make a weapon with his texture, but look at World of warcraft mount, 15dollars for a few hours of work and they made millions $ in a few days.
(i don't support extensive exploittation like this).

For now i find the DLC price of Bioware not "that" bad for what they offer.

EDIT: no, you can't change release date as wished, especialy when you have a "boss" (EA here) that ask you to stick with the game and budget you are given. Of cause all games get latter release, depend about why when what.
But if you already got a delay and realise you need another 4 / 8 month to complet the project all the team dream to do, you usualy get a "you got some delay already so now do your part of the contract".
In ME2 case, if they asked for more time to include more contant, EA would certainly answer that the game is big enough already ... business ...

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 22 août 2010 - 08:11 .

[Red Son Rising]

Mass Effect 2 DLC isnt too expensive. its hard to complain about something so good, especially when its under $10 USD and i can enjoy it again and again



DLC has steadily improved the Mass Effect 2 experience and keeps the game fresh with new content that ppl otherwise wouldve never seen



nobody thinks the deleted scenes on dvds should be in the movie for free, why should content that didnt make the final cut in a game be any different?



demanding quality content for free is unreasonable. Bioware is a creative business, they have to make games that are both artistic and profitable and free doesnt make money

[ShadoX_LV]

Red Son Rising wrote...
nobody thinks the deleted scenes on dvds should be in the movie for free, why should content that didnt make the final cut in a game be any different?
...

The deleted scenes argument doesn't really apply to games. As far as I know.. they only delete scenes from movies because they either had to cut down on the length of the movie or they simply didn't fit the vision that they had.. or there were simply other problems with it.

In games, the only reason to cut content is if it doesn't fit in or can't be completed on time..

You don't see this deleted content in games, because it was removed for a reason.. The stuff that they add as DLC is just stuff that they probably couldn't release in time or stuff that they had just lying around in concept form..

Also.. in movies the cut content is actaully already done.. its simply not in the finished movie.. but in games, the cut content might not even be done, despite actually being work in progress..

Modifié par ShadoX_LV, 22 août 2010 - 09:13 .

[Tinywolf]

considering I paid $110 for the CE (thanks to the special "beach tax") nah I dont think its too expensive. Anyway I enjoyed Kasumi/overlord

Modifié par Tinywolf, 22 août 2010 - 11:33 .

[biomag]

I am willing to pay the price for the DLC as so far I liked the product (at least for ME 2), but please stop comparing DLC prices to food. They are not substitute goods for each other and therefore not comparable (basic economic knowledge). You can compare it to going to the cinema to some degree (money for free time purposes), but comparing it to other video games it gets much closer to a good way to compare price and value (they have the same audience = "people who want to spend their time playing a video game" = same interest, same needs, same expectations).



Truth is DLC are expensive when compared to new games as they don't have the same equivalent of content. On the other hand the developer has higher costs per unit as the fixed expanses are as high as those for the same amount of content as for the main game, BUT the main game has lower variable costs. Additionally the main game will have by far higher sale numbers and therefore you can take lower margins to bring in the costs of development.



So yes, DLC is for video games an expensive addition, but as it seems valuable enough for many. Bioware's margin isn't high enough to be able to make big price cuts and small ones won't increase the market share enough to bring in the same amount of money (honestly, compared to the main game, it makes no difference if the DLC costs 5 or 4 bucks, its still bad value for money, but Bioware would loose 25% of their income on that DLC). So either you are a DLC fan and you will continue buy it or they won't be worth to you anyhow. The grey zone is very limited for this kind of products.

[saxford]

Don't forget that ME2 and other Bioware game are on sale around the world with different price.
It's only cost one movie ticket in your country.

but. in my country it's cost around 4 movie tickets or 6 big meals.

if you are not localizing your dlc price like the main game.
that's mean this game are only for people that live developed country.

and for developing country. we have only choice to give a speech here.

[Jigero]

phatpat63 wrote...

Would any of you have paid $130 for ME2?

The DLC cost that much per hour of content, and for content that has a lower production value than that of the main game. That's not even taking into consideration the fact that EA/Bioware gets less than 30% of the $50-$70 you paid for your ME2 disk(http://games.ign.com...8/708972p1.html), and more than 95% of the $7 you paid for Kasumi or Overlord.

People suck at math and economic reasoning, check out this link or google "idiot tax" for examples.

If the content in Kasumi or Overlord had been priced comparably to that of the main game they would have cost 3 bucks, and without the cost of manufacture, distribution, and retail EA/Bioware would still earn a better profit margin on DLC than the principle game.

If less people acted like this is anything other than money hats ripping off people who are dedicated, rich, or foolish enough to shell out for it anyway they might actually be incentivized to set a more equitable price for the post-release content.

No ones forcing you to buy DLC, DLC is ment for people who wanna expand their game, the game functions perfectly fine with out DLC. People buy it cause they want it. So your logic is falwed at best.

[Jigero]

biomag wrote...

I am willing to pay the price for the DLC as so far I liked the product (at least for ME 2), but please stop comparing DLC prices to food. They are not substitute goods for each other and therefore not comparable (basic economic knowledge). You can compare it to going to the cinema to some degree (money for free time purposes), but comparing it to other video games it gets much closer to a good way to compare price and value (they have the same audience = "people who want to spend their time playing a video game" = same interest, same needs, same expectations).

So you never skipped a meal before? don't buy lunch one day, there enough money for DLC.

[Funker Shepard]

phatpat63 wrote...
Would any of you have paid $130 for ME2?

I did, in fact more than that (PC CE and X360, and I haven't played the PC version). I also have ALL the DLC (including all the preorders and the Dr. Pepper stuff, non-trivial as I live in Europe). I'm also probably going to buy the PS3 version and any upcoming DLC.

So yeah, I really like Mass Effect, both 1 and 2, I have time for few games and have enough money that it doesn't really matter to me how much the stuff costs, if it's good. That said, if all the stuff was on the level and pricing of Pinnacle Station, I'd probably move on. (TBH, the pad in Pinnacle Station was so cool it was worth the price of admission, as were the high-end items. But gameplaywise... not good).

[biomag]

Jigero wrote...

biomag wrote...

I am willing to pay the price for the DLC as so far I liked the product (at least for ME 2), but please stop comparing DLC prices to food. They are not substitute goods for each other and therefore not comparable (basic economic knowledge). You can compare it to going to the cinema to some degree (money for free time purposes), but comparing it to other video games it gets much closer to a good way to compare price and value (they have the same audience = "people who want to spend their time playing a video game" = same interest, same needs, same expectations).

So you never skipped a meal before? don't buy lunch one day, there enough money for DLC.

I guess you have eaten a DVD instead of a meal then?

Don't argue about things you don't seem to understand. You can look it up yourself its not my idea of how the market works. Sure there are shifts in someone's views what he needs and priorities but in the end, food and entertainment ain't substitute goods. Even if you skip a meal to buy it, it still doesn't tell you anything about how expensive a DLC is as you ain't comparing it to anything related to it or any real alternative. You may also offer someone stranded in the middle of the desert a glass of water for 50 bucks and the game for 1. Most certainly he would take the water, but does it tale you anything about the worth of both goods? No, its just the old play of need and demand. So to really compare things they need to be in some kind of relation = substitutes for the same need.

[javierabegazo]

Jigero wrote...

biomag wrote...

I am willing to pay the price for the DLC as so far I liked the product (at least for ME 2), but please stop comparing DLC prices to food. They are not substitute goods for each other and therefore not comparable (basic economic knowledge). You can compare it to going to the cinema to some degree (money for free time purposes), but comparing it to other video games it gets much closer to a good way to compare price and value (they have the same audience = "people who want to spend their time playing a video game" = same interest, same needs, same expectations).

So you never skipped a meal before? don't buy lunch one day, there enough money for DLC.

Even if they aren't substitute goods, what Jigero and others in this thread have said are just as valid.

Every day, of every week, and so on, People go throughout their day spending money on seemingly trifle purchases, they do 'micro transactions' every day, most of the time without really thinking.

A little thirsty while you wait for your friend to put gas in his car? You might go out and waste money (yes, that's right, I said "Waste" because you didn't NEED the beverage) on a simple soda, or candy bar, or snack. Maybe a stick of gum.

Maybe you smoke, in which case nearly all of the DLC is cheaper than a pack of smokes (only applicable to certain states in the US, and certainly not all countries)

Maybe you buy a nice pen for school when you didn't really need the pen.

My point is, don't hold BioWare responsible for your lack of budgeting. Squeezing out 7 dollars for a game you thoroughly enjoy, while being a micro purchase, is totally up to you, and IMO, incredibly reasonable for a game company whose production value is through the roof.

[Kriztaen]

phatpat63 wrote...

Would any of you have paid $130 for ME2?

In Switzerland a newly released game goes for 100CHF (70 at lowest for games over 4 months old)

I got the Collectors Edition and ordered it from the UK at my local gaming store since I like all my games in original English.

The Collector's Edition cost 115. The shipping cost me an extra 10.

So yes, I spent nearly 125$ for ME2. Also if you have enough money to pay for all your daily needs and are not irresponsible with your budget then the DLC are in all honesty pocket change.

My best friend spends around 100$ worth a week in cigarettes and earns less than me. Compared to 2-10$ every 1-2 months that puts things in pretty good perspective.

javierabegazo wrote...

A little thirsty while you wait for
your friend to put gas in his car? You might go out and waste money
(yes, that's right, I said "Waste" because you didn't NEED the beverage)
on a simple soda, or candy bar, or snack. Maybe a stick of gum.

Maybe
you smoke, in which case nearly all of the DLC is cheaper than a pack
of smokes (only applicable to certain states in the US, and certainly
not all countries)

Maybe you buy a nice pen for school when you didn't really need the pen.

My
point is, don't hold BioWare responsible for your lack of budgeting.
Squeezing out 7 dollars for a game you thoroughly enjoy, while being a
micro purchase, is totally up to you, and IMO, incredibly reasonable for
a game company whose production value is through the roof.

Very well put sir, even if you do work for The Man *shifty eyes*

Modifié par Kriztaen, 22 août 2010 - 05:01 .

[biomag]

javierabegazo wrote...

[...]

Pretty much missing the point. I said the whole time its up to the consumer to decide if he wants to buy it or not. Still your comparisions don't really fit. Yes, I can skip a drink, smoke or meal, but I can still get more content per dollar from other games if I skip a few more drinks, smokes and meals. That says nothing.

In the end its up to each and everyone if he wants to buy it or not. And as I wrote, I don't think Bioware can sell those DLC for less (previous posts) as they will hardly be able to cover their own development costs.

[saxford]

as i say earlier



I have enough money for buy main game in my country because it's has localize pricing

but for for the DLC that cost half of my main game price.



It's too expensive.



if you are not localizing your dlc price like the main game.

that's mean this game are only for people that live developed country.



and for developing country. we have no choice.

[Aradace]

javierabegazo wrote...

I think the argument is useless because I don't just play the DLC once, just as much as I don't play a game that I paid 60$ just once.

If anything, the DLC like Kasumi and Overlord are less than the cost of going to the Movie Theatres, and they entertain me for a great deal longer.
Next time you're eating out, look at how much you spend on simple things like food or beverages, or if you're older, a pack of cigarettes or a 6 pack of beer, or that cheap bottle of wine.
No, I don't think the DLC is that expensive at all

This pretty much word for word describes my sentiments....Just be greatful that you arent spending 20+ dollars/euros on them instead of the 5-6 that they actually are.  BioWare is a company like any other and in that light, they like to make money.  *gasp* Amazing isnt it that they dont make a living solely off what the fans want eh? lol

In the end, it boils down to this:  If you personally think it's too expensive, DONT BUY IT.  Im sure you're not going to hurt BioWare's profits by not doing so.  "Speaking with your wallet" only works when there's enough people complaining about it..

[Ross42899]

I think 5€ (560 BW points) for a 2 hour story DLC is a fair price (Plus: your are not getting only the story DLC but some additional stuff as well).



But I think for 160 BW points (not quite sure what the euro price for this is, as I'm always buying more points than that) there should be some more things included in the weapons & armor DLCs (e.g. 6 new outfits in an alternate appearance pack instead of 3, etc.)

[jimmyjj]

They are too expensive.



I think people are getting boned in the UK due to the weakness of the pound. It seems to be very cheap in dollars and all the Americans here seem happy with the price.



In the UK the larger DLC's are just under £5.00 and that is a little too much. If they dropped the price slightly (£1) I would buy them.



As for the alternate appearance packs they are money for old rope. They are so pointless and overpriced they insult my intelligence.



Again if they split up the weapons and armour in to the bigger DLC's then they would be better value.



Bear in mind I just bought DAO Awakenings for £5.99 on Amazon.

[kgaustad]

javierabegazo wrote...

I think the argument is useless because I don't just play the DLC once, just as much as I don't play a game that I paid 60$ just once.

If anything, the DLC like Kasumi and Overlord are less than the cost of going to the Movie Theatres, and they entertain me for a great deal longer.
Next time you're eating out, look at how much you spend on simple things like food or beverages, or if you're older, a pack of cigarettes or a 6 pack of beer, or that cheap bottle of wine.
No, I don't think the DLC is that expensive at all

I agree completely.  If you go to a movie and like it most likely you will probably want the DVD.  There is another 20.00 for something you have seen before.  As far as the DLC is concerned I have had no problems with what they have released so far.  Considering all of the time and payroll hours not to mention the tech that it takes to put these together I think we are getting them for a bargain.

[adriano_c]

jimmyjj wrote...

Bear in mind I just bought DAO Awakenings for £5.99 on Amazon.

I still can't believe they priced that at 40 USD, initially. For a bug-ridden "expansion". Laughable.