282 réponses à ce sujet

[theelementslayer]

vigna wrote...

No, well worth it...Firewalker..not so much.

FW was free with the purchase of a new game, or with the CN which gave you alot imo.

[vova vaganov]

Привет

[Raizo]

ShadoX_LV wrote...

Am I the only one who seems to think that the DLC is too expensive? I'm talking about Kasumi and Overlord. Both of them cost almot 5 euro which is roughly 1/6 of the price that I paid for the game itself.. And I'm assuming that their not even that long.. probably just a hour or 2 max.

I would love to get that DLC, but it seems to be way too expensive considering what you get with it.. :s

I know that no one is forcing me to buy it, but I just felt like posting about it.. :s

I don't think it's too expensive given the quality of stuff that we've recieved in return but I am very much concious of the fact it is beginning to add up. II paid €44.955 for my Collectors Edition of ME2 an dI am not ashamed to admit that I got a bargain and that the game was worth every cent, I am afraid however that if I start doing the math I will be dissapointed about how much I have spent on DLC for just ME2 alone. I am also curious, how many more Overlord's and  LOTSB are there going to be before ME3 comes out, how much will I have spent on this one game when it is all said and done.

[haildodge]

In considering the DLC $/hr to the main game $/hr, don't neglect economy of scale. Forum visitors are most likely minority of retail sales and DLC buyers of any particular DLC are most likely the minority of forum visitors. DLC development cost has to be recouped through sales to a tiny fraction (I would guess ~1%) of the player base.

Rob Bartel indicated that the NWN premium module program was NOT a significant money maker: http://social.biowar...41198/14#246236

In today's world DLC is more accepted that ever before, and because is ME2 multi-platform, ME2 DLC has more sales channels than the NWN premium module program. But my guess is that ME2 DLC costs much more to develop (especially the new art assets and voice over).

My guess is that Bioware has priced the DLC to cover costs and deliver a modest profit on the assumption that only 1% of retail sales of the full game will also net a DLC sale.

Modifié par haildodge, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[ScotGaymer]

Well I do think that some of the DLC has been a bit pricey; but some of it - the more recent stuff - is more worth it.



I mean the Appearance Pack, and some of the weapon and armour packs. They totally werent worth the money. Okay they were "cheap" on the face of it but the problem is you have to go back blocks of points at minimum of 5/6 pounds in order to order any of these. So the DLC might be advertised at 2 quid, you actually paying 6 because you cant just pay the 2 quid to get it.



So in that sense yes its over priced and given how crap some of the earlier ME/DAO DLC was (glorified retexes basically) was totally not worth it.

I felt that the Hammerhead DLC was a little overpriced also because it didnt feel seamlessly part of the game, or polished like some of the other DLC did (Overlord/Lair of the Shadowbroker).



The newer stuff. Kasumi, Overlord, LotSB. They are all worth the price IMO.

[Faerlyte]

Considering I'm probably among the poorest people playing the game and I'm still forking it over for all the DLC, it can't be THAT expensive. Life really just comes down to what's worth it to you. People blow money on all sorts of things that they don't necessarily need. My guilty pleasure happens to be anything ME related, whether it's DLC or merchandise that features Garrus.



So unless they start charging 50$ for a single mission, I don't mind spending a little more for extra content.

[charmingcharlie]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I felt that the Hammerhead DLC was a little overpriced also because it didnt feel seamlessly part of the game, or polished like some of the other DLC did (Overlord/Lair of the Shadowbroker).

The newer stuff. Kasumi, Overlord, LotSB. They are all worth the price IMO.

You thought the Hammerhead DLC was a little overpriced it was free as part of the cerberus network.  I have to say in relation to all the other paid stuff for ME 2 then LotSB was over priced.  Then couple that with the complete **** up way it was released to PC gamers (by the time we finally got it the only surprise that hadn't been spoiled was what colour knickers Liara was wearing).

I see people using films as a comparison and I will agree that films are horrendously expensive which is why I don't pay to see them.  I simply wait till a film is being broadcast for free on television.  Now I can't fault that actual quality of LoSB, but I can fault the length and quantity.

Perversely enough if they had made this a proper full expansion and charged more money for it (and gave us more for our money) I probably would have been happy with that.  I think it was a mistake to release this as DLC and at 800pts for the shortest DLC yet

[ScotGaymer]

charmingcharlie wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I felt that the Hammerhead DLC was a little overpriced also because it didnt feel seamlessly part of the game, or polished like some of the other DLC did (Overlord/Lair of the Shadowbroker).

The newer stuff. Kasumi, Overlord, LotSB. They are all worth the price IMO.

You thought the Hammerhead DLC was a little overpriced it was free as part of the cerberus network.  I have to say in relation to all the other paid stuff for ME 2 then LotSB was over priced.  Then couple that with the complete **** up way it was released to PC gamers (by the time we finally got it the only surprise that hadn't been spoiled was what colour knickers Liara was wearing).

I see people using films as a comparison and I will agree that films are horrendously expensive which is why I don't pay to see them.  I simply wait till a film is being broadcast for free on television.  Now I can't fault that actual quality of LoSB, but I can fault the length and quantity.

Perversely enough if they had made this a proper full expansion and charged more money for it (and gave us more for our money) I probably would have been happy with that.  I think it was a mistake to release this as DLC and at 800pts for the shortest DLC yet

Actually. Sorry thats what I meant. A lot of users have to pay for the Cerebus Network and its quite a lot if I remember right.
Wasnt it only free to to certain customers? Sorry I confused myself there. Lol.

I just meant that it didnt feel as polished as some of the other DLC.

I am of the opinion also that we should have got the armour and weapons packs free as they were little more than glorified retextures. The only one of them lot worth paying for is the firepower pack.
Bioware seems to have taken note of the less than enthusiastic response to the Appearance Pack etc and been making more of an effort lately thankfully.

I dont mind paying for it if its actually good. If it took actual effort to create. If it took time and money to create. Then yes I will happily pay for it. Like Overlord or LotSB.
I resent being asked to pay good money for stuff that was knocked up in about 30 minutes by one developer, and really should have been put in as part of the cerebus network stuff. They basically rendered the Cerebus Network a useless gimmick.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:44 .

[Moondoggie]

charmingcharlie wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I felt that the Hammerhead DLC was a little overpriced also because it didnt feel seamlessly part of the game, or polished like some of the other DLC did (Overlord/Lair of the Shadowbroker).

The newer stuff. Kasumi, Overlord, LotSB. They are all worth the price IMO.

You thought the Hammerhead DLC was a little overpriced it was free as part of the cerberus network.  I have to say in relation to all the other paid stuff for ME 2 then LotSB was over priced.  Then couple that with the complete **** up way it was released to PC gamers (by the time we finally got it the only surprise that hadn't been spoiled was what colour knickers Liara was wearing).

I see people using films as a comparison and I will agree that films are horrendously expensive which is why I don't pay to see them.  I simply wait till a film is being broadcast for free on television.  Now I can't fault that actual quality of LoSB, but I can fault the length and quantity.

Perversely enough if they had made this a proper full expansion and charged more money for it (and gave us more for our money) I probably would have been happy with that.  I think it was a mistake to release this as DLC and at 800pts for the shortest DLC yet

Which DLC was it shorter than exactly? It was about the same legnth as Overlord plus a whole bit at the end with Liara and having lots of stuff to look at and use in game. Also you get a few goodies for your trouble.

The cost isn't about legnth it's about production costs. If something cost more to produce and you charge the same price for it as something that cost much less then you are losing profit. People seem to forget that Bioware is running a buisiness and needs to be making money to survive. Some people on here act like Bioware owes them something. Entertaining you is a job and they deserve to be paid for doing their job. If fans demand more high quality DLC each time it's going to cost more to make and they need to charge for it accordingly. If it's not free to produce it you won't get it for free.

[charmingcharlie]

Moondoggie wrote...

Which DLC was it shorter than exactly? It was about the same legnth as Overlord plus a whole bit at the end with Liara and having lots of stuff to look at and use in game. Also you get a few goodies for your trouble.

The cost isn't about legnth it's about production costs. If something cost more to produce and you charge the same price for it as something that cost much less then you are losing profit. People seem to forget that Bioware is running a buisiness and needs to be making money to survive. Some people on here act like Bioware owes them something. Entertaining you is a job and they deserve to be paid for doing their job. If fans demand more high quality DLC each time it's going to cost more to make and they need to charge for it accordingly. If it's not free to produce it you won't get it for free.

I personally felt overlord was a bit longer and had more "gameplay" in it than LotSB.  I am actually beginning to wish that they had made the Shadow Broker as a decent length expansion instead of trying to cram it all into under 2gbs of DLC.

I should point out that I never once stated this DLC should be free, I accept Bioware are a business and they should charge for their products.  I am not acting like they "owe" me anything, I am a paying customer and I am saying that right now I feel the DLC is not offering me "value for money".  I even stated I would have been happy to have paid MORE for a decent length expansion involving the Shadow Broker and Liara.

Now sure I enjoyed LotSB but no I don't believe it was worth 800 bwpoints.  I managed to finish it in just under 2 hours on insanity first time around. 

Now you are keen to point out that "Bioware doesn't owe me anything" and I am quite happy to admit they do not owe me anything.  However I am a paying customer and whilst I think ME 2 is an absolutely fantastic game I feel so far the DLC has not been up to scratch length wise.  I was looking forward to a deeply involving plot and a race against time with Liara to hunt the Shadow Broker down.  What I got was "oh yeah he's over there lets go and get him".

I guess I am starting to wish Bioware would give the DLC a rest and come out with a decent £20 expansion to Mass Effect 2 rather than these bits n bobs that for me at least leave me unsatisfied and with the feeling I am being price gouged.

[stewie1974]

Overlord did feel longer ...I'll say that, but I hated the hammer head sections... firewalker was enough hammerhead for me. LOTSB did feel like it had less levels somehow...but had more dialouge...so I guess the price tag is the actors fees.... maybe I don't know...

the weapons packs and stuff though, there should be "more" in those packages for the price....

Modifié par stewie1974, 13 septembre 2010 - 02:29 .

[HBC Dresden]

No point in arguing price because Microsoft dictates story-type DLC must be $7-$10. And you can't negotiate with Microsoft unless your Bungie or something (well, probably not anymore). Look at what happened to the Xbox version of Team Fortress 2. And before you ask why is it that expensive on PC too, it's probably to not ****** off either camp.



I love ME2, so it was worth it. If you don't love/like the game enough to pay the $10 for LotSB or don't see it as enough bang for your buck, don't buy it. Wait for when they release an "expansion" on disc with all the bridging DLC on it (as the files on the PC version hints to).

[Evil_Weasel]

Problem with DLC is when we knew we were getting it, people predicted it would be abused.....and they were right, but mostly its new and companies dont know what to do with it. And by new, I mean less than 10 years of market analisis.

Think about it, back in 2002 we were playing Morowind and that game had 2 expansions, in 2006 we played Oblivion and that game had horse armor, and one expansion.

Thing is, most people feel nickle and dimed by DLC, specialy when it seems pricey. We can all agree that ME2 is a pretty guud game and all, but I feel that the price of older DLC should be reduced a little with the relese of newer DLC.

Not only would the reduction in price compel those who were holding off, it would be less offensive to late adoptors to the game. If someone bought the game today, they would have to buy about around $25 dollars of stuff just for the DLC that has talking bits.

What is silly is that you can buy ME1 on Steam for $19.99.
Now I can buy ME2 (base game) on Steam for $29.99, thats around $20 off the release price.
But when ME3 comes out, the DLC for this game is still going to cost the same. Games get cheaper the older they get, DLC is the same forever, why you ask?

DLC is money in the companies pocket, and they may be to greedy to think straight. See they would rather sell the DLC at full price, or not at all. We all know stuff gets cheaper as it gets older, ME2 its self is an example. But when April 6, 2011 rolls around, Kasumi DLC will be 1 year old and will still cost 560 Bioware points. Why? its a year old, stuff gets cheaper when its older right?

Well, part of its the dumb Microsoft Live, price minimums and some other crap to do with file sizes and bandwidth bs, but mostly its lazy greed. ME2 is almost a year old, but the PC version is $20 down in less than a year, that is a 40% discount over the original price we will never see on the DLC.

Modifié par Evil_Weasel, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:01 .

[GreenSoda]

Evil_Weasel wrote...



Well, part of its the dumb Microsoft Live, price minimums and some other crap to do with file sizes and bandwidth bs, but mostly its lazy greed. ME2 is almost a year old, but the PC version is $20 down in less than a year, that is a 40% discount over the original price we will never see on the DLC.

Microsoft relaxing their XboX Live price schemes would certainly help some -but at the end of the day EA still would have a monopoly on their DLC distribution (you only can buy ME DLC through EA). There is no competition. No different "store" that might try to attract customers with lower prices (like Steam). No pricing pressure put on EA.



There is no need for EA to drop their DLC prices -so they don't.



I hope people will remember that when someday in the future PC/consoles will try to go "download only". But somehow I suspect the only protest against that would be 1-3 months of massive online moaning -then everybody will swallow the new model.

[Raygereio]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
Actually. Sorry thats what I meant. A lot of users have to pay for the
Cerebus Network and its quite a lot if I remember right.
Wasnt it only free to to certain customers? Sorry I confused myself there. Lol.

Everyone who bought the game new should have gotten a code for the Cerberus thing. If you bought the game new and didn’t get such a code, whatever store you bought it from ripped you off.

Also note that the Cerberus network also gave you access to Zaeed, the Normandy crash site and some items (granted the last two are of…  questionable value).

GreenSoda wrote...
I hope people will remember that when
someday in the future PC/consoles will try to go "download only". But
somehow I suspect the only protest against that would be 1-3 months of
massive online moaning -then everybody will swallow the new
model.

I don't know; I can already see companies thinking about using cloud computing to turn videogames into an actual service and I don't know anyone who's okay with that.

Edit: sweet mercy, this forum does not like pasted text from word.

Modifié par Raygereio, 13 septembre 2010 - 07:29 .

[Moondoggie]

Evil_Weasel wrote...

Problem with DLC is when we knew we were getting it, people predicted it would be abused.....and they were right, but mostly its new and companies dont know what to do with it. And by new, I mean less than 10 years of market analisis.

Think about it, back in 2002 we were playing Morowind and that game had 2 expansions, in 2006 we played Oblivion and that game had horse armor, and one expansion.

Thing is, most people feel nickle and dimed by DLC, specialy when it seems pricey. We can all agree that ME2 is a pretty guud game and all, but I feel that the price of older DLC should be reduced a little with the relese of newer DLC.

Not only would the reduction in price compel those who were holding off, it would be less offensive to late adoptors to the game. If someone bought the game today, they would have to buy about around $25 dollars of stuff just for the DLC that has talking bits.

What is silly is that you can buy ME1 on Steam for $19.99.
Now I can buy ME2 (base game) on Steam for $29.99, thats around $20 off the release price.
But when ME3 comes out, the DLC for this game is still going to cost the same. Games get cheaper the older they get, DLC is the same forever, why you ask?

DLC is money in the companies pocket, and they may be to greedy to think straight. See they would rather sell the DLC at full price, or not at all. We all know stuff gets cheaper as it gets older, ME2 its self is an example. But when April 6, 2011 rolls around, Kasumi DLC will be 1 year old and will still cost 560 Bioware points. Why? its a year old, stuff gets cheaper when its older right?

Well, part of its the dumb Microsoft Live, price minimums and some other crap to do with file sizes and bandwidth bs, but mostly its lazy greed. ME2 is almost a year old, but the PC version is $20 down in less than a year, that is a 40% discount over the original price we will never see on the DLC.

Do you believe DLC costs next to nothing to produce? You talk like they just knock something together for nothing and overcharge you for it and pocket a mass profit (no pun intended)

Games producers and publishers are a BUISINESS. They aren't making games for the fun of it (well they are but this is not the point) They need to be making money to run and keep making games and DLC. To make money you need to have a profit margin so you have enough capital to pour into products to keep your customers coming back.

You mentioned the sharp drops in PC game prices this is common among PC games i recently picked up DA:Awakening for £6 (Around just over $9) which is a massive drop from when it came out. PC gaming isn't as huge a market as Consoles which affects sales accross the board. So to generate sales eventually you need to drop your prices however. In DLC cases it's a different matter. DLC is available at the same price for PC and Console users. You can't drop prices for PC users without dropping it for Console users so you'd be cutting out a ton of revenue by doing so.

Revenue generated by DLC helps keep Bioware producing more great DLC. If you expect more high qualty DLC in future it will cost money to create. If you support Bioware and the great games they produce just enjoy it and know your few bucks that you paid for the latest DLC goes towards creating more for you to enjoy.

How upset would you be if Bioware was not making a profit and went under?

[Burdokva]

I don't buy the argument that DLC supports a company (not just BioWare, I'm talking in general). If you can't produce high-quality games that drive you forward and make a profit on top of returning investment costs, and you have to sell overpriced piece-meal content, then something is obviously very wrong in your design. I support BioWare by actually buying their games. As a fair customer with a clear conscience, I can't feel but offended when they cut content out of the game and resell it later for additional price. Support the devs? Sure, I've paid for the game. Why don't they support me and my heard earned money?



DLC is genius from a marketing perspective, but (in regards to gaming), I'm a customer, and for me it's bad. It doesn't follow market tendencies, it's not adjusted for regions and various price-level markets. Do I want to buy DLC? Some of them, sure. I won't, though, because it's unfair to pay three times as much as a German or US customer, especially when I don't have options to return used games, resell or even receive proper online customer support. I can buy Mass Effect brand new for the same cost as "Lair of The Shadow Broker" - ask yourselves, honestly, which is a bargain.



What bothers me most is the supposed "optionality" of DLC. To say that they're not purposefully cutting from the story to adjust for DLC is just a blind eye. You honestly believe Mass Effect romances weren't completely ruined to set the stage for DLCs, it was just sloppy writing and time limitations? I want Mass Effect 3 to work as was advertised, as a trilogy, and the two games I can afford to be all I need to enjoy it to the fullest, without being locked away from on-disk ME3 content.



If DLC is to sell, it needs to be essential to the experience; but that completely destroys the optionality of the content. So, instead of completed stories, games are going to become puzzle-like pieces where you need DLC to enjoy it. That I can't agree with.



Movie references are fine, but generally tickets for movies, DVD prices, even Blu-Rays are adjusted for countries and different level economies. I can watch two movies (four with my university discount) for the price of a single story ME2 DLC. And, unlike the latter, movies provide a complete experience. Popcorn and beverages are optional, but I don't need them to enjoy the movie.



Where will ME3 go without the bridging DLCs? I'm absolutely sure it won't be as smooth transition as ME -> ME2, because you have to somehow reward people who have bought the DLCs, and they only way is to lock portions of the ME3 disk content (or digital download, whatever) to those who didn't. Even though the price of ME3 would the the same base level for all. And the ridiculous thing is I won't be able to purchase ME2 DLC because the entire "bridging" series will in the end cost me twice as much as a brand new Collector's Edition of Mass Effect 3.



Well, great. Exactly why should I care and harbor respect for this money-sucking policy? Fact is, BioWare (EA...) are doing the immense stupidity of punishing paying customers because they have a stubborn, unwieldy and unadjustable price/content system. I and and some of my friends might as well sit aside and ramble, asking to buy something on more equal terms, and BioWare are missing out on a few additional funds, just because they can't cut slack and adjust pricey for regions ... while other people I know are happily torrent-ing everything for free.

[Athelius]

The DLC is great, and i've enjoyed it all, but it does seem a little overpriced to me...
For the price of the Shadow Broker I kinda hoped for something like an expansion pack as opposed to one fairly long mission, albeit well written and technically innovative.

Maybe i've just been spoilt by the main game, but that took me over a week (over intervals) at my playing speed, whilst the Shadow Broker took me just the one evening, yet still cost a good fraction what I payed for the full game.

I generally think it was better for the consumer when this sort of thing was released as an expansion, several missions etc for a half or more the price of the full game.

As for revenue being needed to make new DLC, sureley that's more than adequateley covered by the sale of each DLC itself, with a sizeable profit to boot. Whilst expensive to produce, i'd imagine once finished only server and licencing costs would apply, i'm sure they break even pretty quickly and make a profit not long after.

All speculation of course, so I could be way off. Whilst it would be interesting I don't think Bioware would release it's profit margins or anything.

Just to give my take on the cinema giving same time for money, that's ok because i'm used to it. If someone suddenly charged me the same for a chapter of a book arguing that it takes about the same time to read i'd be understandably annoyed.

Modifié par Athelius, 13 septembre 2010 - 12:13 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

there's not much doubt that DLC is both extending the revenue over time and increasing total revenue.
The main benefit for BW or the Dev is revenue stability and that shouldn't be scoffed at - it literally allows people to sleep at night. But the customer does pay - we pay so BW has steady revenues.
200,000 downloads of the Liara DLC would be seen as favourably as 2 million units of ME2 itself by BW and there is no doubt that the paid DLC model will continue.
The question is: what is the price ceiling on DLC?? Assuming the quality is maintained, probably around $12 - $13 for a DLC of 4-5 real hours (plus replay) after that it's probably an Xpack or reaches into an unknown pricing / development schedule.
BW content atm is the best quality around and they'll seek to make hay while the sun shines.... if it's good, people will buy.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 13 septembre 2010 - 12:22 .

[cjone2]

shadow broker is its fantastic but for the content its seems too much will only buy cheaper content again

seems it was only done as whoever priced it realised how important to the story the dlc was and I just feel slightly cheated by a company I have a huge amount of respect for

Modifié par cjone2, 13 septembre 2010 - 02:16 .

[coinop25]

I don't think story adventures are overpriced, and I would happily pay Lair of the Shadow Broker prices if every story DLC were as good as Lair of the Shadow Broker (i.e., multi-stage mission, new gameplay experiences, multiple boss fights, dialog that takes your previous choices into consideration, and resources you can keep using after finishing the DLC).



That said, I think the weapon and appearance packs are too expensive. Cerberus Network is $15 if you didn't buy the game new, and if you did buy the game new (as I did), having access to Cerberus Network offerings could be a selling point if only $15 worth of content were ever released through it. Zaeed's mission was a gift at its price point, but the Firewalker missions feel like a tech demo, and the Normandy Crash Site mission is somewhat interesting the first time, but offers no replay value whatsoever.

[Mykel54]

I believe in supporting developers that makes games i enjoy, that is why i buy dlc from bioware. In my opinion the big difference is that some companies release games unfinished, and then the dlc, in short, the main game suffers because of the cut content, that is now dlc. I don´t feel bioware did that with mass effect 2. I bought the game and i felt it was complete and very enjoyable, i didn´t feel like it was missing a lot of things and i was getting half-a game. So that is my posture, i think bioware did a good job with mass effect 2, and then continued supporting their game with dlc and patches, therefore i also support them buying their dlc (well most of it, i only miss one i don´t like much the armours graphics) because believe it or not there are way too many "bad" companies that abuse the dlc system to give you overpriced crap, and very few ones like bioware who are honest and 1) make the original game good enough and 2) make good quality dlc worth the money.

Modifié par Mykel54, 13 septembre 2010 - 03:55 .

[Christmas Ape]

So we're all still blaming Bioware, and through them EA, for the Xbox Live pricing policies they're required to adhere to in order to offer their product?



Okay, good, there's still no point in taking the time to construct an argument.

[Whatever42]

I think the price is fine. I also think the pricing and delivery model is fine.



DLC will always be more expensive hour for hour because it is more expensive to deliver it piecemeal. On the upside, though, it allows Bioware to try out new ideas, to fix problems in the main game, and improves the replayablity of the main game, improving its value.



The reason game company offer add-ons and micropurchases (pets in wow, armor in ME2, etc.) is because of a very standard market segmentation approach. Some people like me have more money and are willing to pay more for the experience. Others, like kids who play a lot of games and have less disposable income, are not willing to pay more. By providing these additional purchases, they get my money and improve my satisifaction, while kids can happily ignore it because they are neck deep in Halo Reach anyway.

[Sparda Stonerule]

What is this question even supposed to be asking? Isn't value something people figure out individually for themselves? if you'll be playing this game multiple times or really enjoyed it then it's probably worth the price to you. If you're only playing it once or didn't like it it'll feel not worth it.

I know this is about peoples opinions but in reality, no it isn't too expensive. It just feels expensive to some people especially if they didn't like it.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 13 septembre 2010 - 04:17 .