645 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

Nudity =/= Pornography.

Most of the early Rennisance artists painted people who appeared nude.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 20 août 2010 - 09:34 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Heavenblade wrote...
Whenever a game company self-censors, they are effectively eroding the foundations of freedom EVERYWHERE by encouraging this kind of behavior.

Don't you think you are being a *tad* over-dramatic?

[Archereon]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Nudity =/= Pornography.

Most of the early Rennisance artists painted people who appeared nude.

There's a fine line between the two when sex is involved.  While I trust Bioware is mature enough not to cross it, there's at least some members of their fanbase who would push that, making it all the more likely that the media's moral guardians will pounce on the game, eliminating a good portion of its under 18 userbase.

[Mecha Tengu]

why even censor an M rated game?



If bioware has learned anything about publicity, it's that idiots like Cooper Lawrence who are quick to condem such content will be automatically bashed and ridiculed, and will also create the positive side effect of marketing the game through the news

[Nerevar-as]

Nudity in a love scene doesn´t mean it is porn.

[Seifz]

slimgrin wrote...

Seifz wrote...
 The only time people get upset about nudity is when it's put into a product that their children are likely to use. 

Ie: Video games, movies, books, art, pretty much everything, by the time they turn twelve.

I want to reply, but I don't think I know what you're actually trying to say. :/

[hexaligned]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Nudity =/= Pornography.

Most of the early Rennisance artists painted people who appeared nude.

This is true, but not really relevant to a product that is being mass marketed at adolecents. Who I'm sure, would love nudity in the game (for reasons other than artistic appreciation) but have to get their mommys to ok it first.  If people want to rant about christian morals, that's fine, I'm not fond of them either.  It's just silly to call it censorship imo, as Bioware is perfectly free to make any kind of game they want to.  Bioware isn't out to make art, they are out to make dollars, if that ever changes I might be more sympethic to the hypocirises in the system.

[Heavenblade]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...
Whenever a game company self-censors, they are effectively eroding the foundations of freedom EVERYWHERE by encouraging this kind of behavior.

Don't you think you are being a *tad* over-dramatic?

Sir, one cannot be over-dramatic when defending the intellectual and philosophical integrity of AN ENTIRE SPECIES! If I am not as loud or louder than the people who would see us reduced to mindless ignorant slaves, then I might as well not speak at all!

Think of the art and science renaissance we would be in if the chains of censorship, ignorance, and political correctness were done away with... Think of all the new genres and themes a game could approach! We could finally start to explore new ideas, philosophies, asthetic styles, and various expressions of human action and sexuality without having to live in fear of the power-mongering morality police!

Modifié par Heavenblade, 20 août 2010 - 09:47 .

[AlexXIV]

term8 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

term8 wrote...

I think one the biggest problem with arguing a point like this is that some have an inability to understand how nudity can be used for anything other than sexual arousal.

Right, I'd like to know.

why did michelangelo sculpt david in the nude?

Because he was an artist? I fear I can't say anything intelligent about the motivations of Michelangelo.

[Archereon]

slimgrin wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Nudity =/= Pornography.

Most of the early Rennisance artists painted people who appeared nude.

There's a fine line between the two when sex is involved.  While I trust Bioware is mature enough not to cross it, there's at least some members of their fanbase who would push that, making it all the more likely that the media's moral guardians will pounce on the game, eliminating a good portion of its under 18 userbase.

There are enough adults around to sell the game and make a profit. They just don't need to sell this game to people under 18. Rated R movies do the same thing. 

Ultimately the question is not whether it will make a profit, but whether the inclusion of more graphic sex scenes will increase or decrease that profit.

[tybbiesniffer]

Archereon wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Nudity =/= Pornography.

Most of the early Rennisance artists painted people who appeared nude.

There's a fine line between the two when sex is involved.  While I trust Bioware is mature enough not to cross it, there's at least some members of their fanbase who would push that, making it all the more likely that the media's moral guardians will pounce on the game, eliminating a good portion of its under 18 userbase.

While I agree with you completely, I don't see why we should care about the under 18 userbase.  A mature game should be for adults.  If they want to make a game to appeal to a younger audience, they should make a teen-rated game (or...whatever).  If they want to have sex scenes, they should do it...but leave out the hideous undergarments or use a fade-to-black.    I could care less if a game has nudity or not (and, no, I do not want porn) but a mature game should not be restricted by the minors who may play it.  A mature game should not dance around the subjects or situations that would not be appropriate for the under 18 crowd; it should have the freedom to tell the story without those restrictions.

[Daerog]

Heavenblade wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...
Whenever a game company self-censors, they are effectively eroding the foundations of freedom EVERYWHERE by encouraging this kind of behavior.

Don't you think you are being a *tad* over-dramatic?

Sir, one cannot be over-dramatic when defending the intellectual and philosophical integrity of AN ENTIRE SPECIES! If I am not as loud or louder than the people who would see us reduced to mindless ignorant slaves, then I might as well not speak at all!

Think of the art and science renaissance we would be in if the chains of censorship, ignorance, and political correctness were done away with... Think of all the new genres and themes a game could approach! We could finally start to explore new ideas, philosophies, asthetic styles, and various expressions of human action and sexuality without having to live in fear of the power-mongering morality police!

You mean the internet?

[Seifz]

Heavenblade wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...
Whenever a game company self-censors, they are effectively eroding the foundations of freedom EVERYWHERE by encouraging this kind of behavior.

Don't you think you are being a *tad* over-dramatic?

Sir, one cannot be over-dramatic when defending the intellectual and philosophical integrity of AN ENTIRE SPECIES! If I am not as loud or louder than the people who would see us reduced to mindless ignorant slaves, then I might as well not speak at all!

Think of the art and science renaissance we would be in if the chains of censorship, ignorance, and political correctness were done away with... Think of all the new genres and themes a game could approach! We could finally start to explore ideas, philosophies, asthetic styles, and various expressions of human action and sexuality without having to live in fear of the power-mongering morality police!

... have you seen the other 99% of the Internet?  I'd be surprised if there was an expression of human action or sexuality not yet explored!

Modifié par Seifz, 20 août 2010 - 09:49 .

[Archereon]

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Nudity =/= Pornography.

Most of the early Rennisance artists painted people who appeared nude.

There's a fine line between the two when sex is involved.  While I trust Bioware is mature enough not to cross it, there's at least some members of their fanbase who would push that, making it all the more likely that the media's moral guardians will pounce on the game, eliminating a good portion of its under 18 userbase.

While I agree with you completely, I don't see why we should care about the under 18 userbase.  A mature game should be for adults.  If they want to make a game to appeal to a younger audience, they should make a teen-rated game (or...whatever).  If they want to have sex scenes, they should do it...but leave out the hideous undergarments or use a fade-to-black.    I could care less if a game has nudity or not (and, no, I do not want porn) but a mature game should not be restricted by the minors who may play it.  A mature game should not dance around the subjects or situations that would not be appropriate for the under 18 crowd; it should have the freedom to tell the story without those restrictions.

I would ideally hope that they could do the sex scenes like mass effect, using clever camera work to avoid the need for nuditiy.  Its really not an option, to cut out the under 18 userbase.  Teenagers make up a significant portion of the userbase of this, and any other non AO rated game, and while its obvious a good deal of them will get their hands of the game whether their parents want them to or not, considerations must be made.

[Heavenblade]

We have to take it BEYOND the internet. All the creative people in the world hide in the shadows, and even as we speak, politicans and purity police are trying to think up new ways to control the internet. We must go on the offensive! We must harness the endless creative power and chaos of the internet and LEGITIMIZE it. Right now, the internet is viewed with contempt by the powers that be and the various gods of academia who scoff at the thought of anything outside their narrow view of reality.

[hexaligned]

Heavenblade wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...
Whenever a game company self-censors, they are effectively eroding the foundations of freedom EVERYWHERE by encouraging this kind of behavior.

Don't you think you are being a *tad* over-dramatic?

Sir, one cannot be over-dramatic when defending the intellectual and philosophical integrity of AN ENTIRE SPECIES! If I am not as loud or louder than the people who would see us reduced to mindless ignorant slaves, then I might as well not speak at all!

Think of the art and science renaissance we would be in if the chains of censorship, ignorance, and political correctness were done away with... Think of all the new genres and themes a game could approach! We could finally start to explore new ideas, philosophies, asthetic styles, and various expressions of human action and sexuality without having to live in fear of the power-mongering morality police!

Your mistake, is the assumption people are being stopped from doing that.  Plenty of art forms do explore those ideas, they just aren't motivated by profit.

[AlexXIV]

You know it is funny. I see alot of people talking about censorship, freedom, art, etc., at they same time they want to tell Bioware how to do their art. It's Bioware's art so they do it the way they want it, if you don't like, don't look.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 20 août 2010 - 09:57 .

[Archereon]

Heavenblade wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...
Whenever a game company self-censors, they are effectively eroding the foundations of freedom EVERYWHERE by encouraging this kind of behavior.

Don't you think you are being a *tad* over-dramatic?

Sir, one cannot be over-dramatic when defending the intellectual and philosophical integrity of AN ENTIRE SPECIES! If I am not as loud or louder than the people who would see us reduced to mindless ignorant slaves, then I might as well not speak at all!

Think of the art and science renaissance we would be in if the chains of censorship, ignorance, and political correctness were done away with... Think of all the new genres and themes a game could approach! We could finally start to explore new ideas, philosophies, asthetic styles, and various expressions of human action and sexuality without having to live in fear of the power-mongering morality police!

While that may be true, I hope that you agree that there is a line that must be crossed (if not, this will soon become a debate on eugenics and transhumanism, only one of which can be carried out ethically).  When the human life becomes a commodity in the name of the greater good of our species, when the induvidual is utterly destroyed for the sake of efficiency, a line must be drawn.

[Heavenblade]

Is it BioWare's art? Or is it their art modified to meet the arbitrary morality standards of people they don't even know?

[tybbiesniffer]

Archereon wrote...

I would ideally hope that they could do the sex scenes like mass effect, using clever camera work to avoid the need for nuditiy.  Its really not an option, to cut out the under 18 userbase.  Teenagers make up a significant portion of the userbase of this, and any other non AO rated game, and while its obvious a good deal of them will get their hands of the game whether their parents want them to or not, considerations must be made.

Pfftt.  Then should lock them in a closet.   I jest!   I understand your point and the the validity of it.  I spent the 4th of July talking video games with a 14- and 16-year-old boy (whose father was my age).  Wow, did I feel like a geek!  I just resent the fact that my pasttimes get censored or watered down because of the children of other people <sigh>.

And damn all you people on this forum!  With all this talk of ME, I think I may have to play it.

[Archereon]

[quote]slimgrin wrote...

[/quote]
"I would ideally hope that they could do the sex scenes like mass effect, using clever camera work to avoid the need for nuditiy.  Its really not an option, to cut out the under 18 userbase.  Teenagers make up a significant portion of the userbase of this, and any other non AO rated game, and while its obvious a good deal of them will get their hands of the game whether their parents want them to or not, considerations must be made."

[/quote]

No they must not. So every a creative studio should cater their product to children just in case a minor gets their hands on it? This is nonsense. No wait...its self censorship.

Edit: Sorry, botched the quote.[/quote]

Edit (for some reaon the quote bbcode isn't working right...)
_______________

Considerations need to be made when children or adolescents WILL play the game, and will make up a significant portion of the userbase, because not doing so is bad for business.

Modifié par Archereon, 20 août 2010 - 10:01 .

[AlexXIV]

Heavenblade wrote...

Is it BioWare's art? Or is it their art modified to meet the arbitrary morality standards of people they don't even know?

I don't know, do you?