[quote]krimesh wrote...
Well, I am not going to quote for practical reasons, and I am not going to negate every one of Zulu_DFA's sentences. But I will point a few things out:
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That' all right.
[quote]krimesh wrote...
Cerberus is in fact an enemy of the Alliance.
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Cerberus is in fact the spawn of the Alliance. The Alliance secretly established it, secretly maintained and secretly tasked with all the horrific experiments they ran, up until Akuze. Then Kahoku blew up its cover, and the Alliance "avowed" it as enemy.
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However the Alliance itself is highly ineffective against Cerberus,
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To the point that they deny any support to Kahoku going after Cerberus, already after it supposedly went rogue. Then, after Cerberus kills Kahoku, the Alliance announces: "natural causes".
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because it is strongly infiltrated by the latter.
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to the point that there are "private contributors" among the Alliance staff. Yeah...
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This is why Anderson and Kahlee chose to ask the Turians for help. This is explained in the book at great length.
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Sanders doesn't know squat about Cerberus, other that Paul Grayson was with them, but Anderson should know that the Undead Commander Shepard works for/with them to stop the Reapers... And what were exactly the "natural causes" Kahoku died of... And why it had to be "natural causes", instead of "Oh, our avowed enemy Cerberus killed our heroic admiral! Citizens! If you so much as smell Cerberus report to any Alliance or friends Turians' patrol nearby! It's everyone's responsibility to hunt down the space-nаzi bastards!!!"
But I suppose, that even in her late forties Kahlee is such a sex-bomb, that she's worth it...
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Also obviously the Turians have decided that Cerberus is their enemy.
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Really? What a big surprize. After he First Contact War. Don't forget who the last rogue spectre was.
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In any case TIM knows he has a lot of enemies, and if not thats an even bigger mistake of his; So in this particular universe Cerberus did fail their Grayson implantation project, and the fact that someone tripped them up doesn't change that.
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The fact that Cerberus took some damage from its enemies confirms the fact that Cerberus enemies exist, not the fact that Cerberus inflicted the damage upon itself. This particular day was bad for Cerberus. That's all right. That doesn't mean they don't have good days or they have them less than bad, because you'll never hear about their good days, because the clandestine organizations don't boast about them.
But the sheer fact that Cerberus still exists even after all those projects "blowing up in their face" suggests that it was only the tip of the iceberg.
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The Kahlee-Grayson-Cerberus situation: Grayson is afraid that Cerberus hurts Kahlee. So he threatens to damage Cerberus if anything should happen to her. If he would cause damage to Cerberus she would not be protected anymore. When Cerberus comes for him, Grayson thinks, that Kahlee is in danger as well, as he can no longer watch out for her. So he sends the files, and tells her to go into hiding. This too is explained in the book in detail. (So no, he couldn't have changed his mind at any time.)
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Grayson-Cerberus situation: Grayson betrayed Cerberus. And threatens to damage it futher. Cerberus Command analyses the possible damage Grayson can do and makes precautions, reports to TIM, that precautions have been made. TIM authorizes retaliation against Grayson, not knowing that his staff had missed something important about Grayson. The odd thing is that Grayson isn't even properly interrogated before injecting the Reaper stuff in him (another loose writing), but let's attribute that to TIM's overconfidence in his lieutenants, and Grayson's super-resourcefulness.
Now, if Grayson had that data-package prepped to send off with one button hit, that was already a hostile action against Cerberus! What if it was not Kai Leng, that raided his appartment, but some Omega gang? Grayson would've still thought that it's Cerberus coming after him and sent the data! This "Cerburus triggured it dumsulves" argument is totally retarded. And if Grayson cared so much for Kahlee's safety, why it had to be her that he sent his data? Now he is dead and she is a potential target! Before that Cerberus didn't care if she existed. Good job, Paul!
Being a sex-bomb ain't easy, Kahlee!
(To make it more clear, imagine: You're a Mafia hitman, and betrayed the God Father. Now the God Father is after you, but you've got a cash of cocaine in a suitcase with his monogrammed handkerchief and fingerprints in it. You are afraid that the God Father will harm your sister, who was in the same car when you stole the cocaine. So you call the God Father and tell him, that if so much as one hair falls off your little sister's head, the FBI gets the suitcase. But when the Mafia guys finally come after you, you send the suitcase... to you sister!)
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Talking about ethics and the price of human life: Ethics is a complicated topic, so lets run circles around it. My argumentation does not require ethics!
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That's great!
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Firstly, Cerberus and others have shown that at the present state of scientific knowledge, no one is able to use reaper tech for their own purposes. (Derelict Reaper, Reaper IFF.. 50%, I give you that, Saren, ME1 Cerberus missions etc.)
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Firstly if no attempts to decrypt the Reaper tech are taken, the scientific knowledge will never reach the state where it'll be possible.
Secondly, it's not true. Thannix Cannon.
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On the other hand there is evidence (Sovereign, Derelict Reaper) that reaper tech is not necessary to blow them up. [/quote]
But it would come in very handy if some additional tech allowed for blowing them up more efficiently, than at the ratio 1 Fleet : 1 Reaper.
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Yes, of course, you can shove researchers into the Collector Base with a shovel and see what happens, but that is not very efficient.
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Until there is just one of them who makes a scientific break through. You know how it goes with the scientists... Especially in science fiction... Oh, scratch that last part, metagaming, metagaming!!!
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And this leads to my next point: Yes, a human life has its value and hence, presumably, a price. Judging by how TIM uses his resources however, this price seems to be quite low; underpriced I would say.
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Hmmm. Now we getting somewhere. What we need now is to look at the Cerberus' log book and accountancy, to discern the true cost effectiveness of their operations... Maybe in ME3? What you guys think?
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- This is what I tried to say in my original post. I would not destroy the collector base because its *evil*. Its simply neither efficient, nor wise (given the fact that so little is known, and no one would want this thing to backfire at the time when the reapers are stretching out to everything they can control from a distance.) to keep it.
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Better safe then sorry. It's a good policy, and I always roleplay it this way, even hit the retarded "the mission was to destroy the base" line, even though it wasn't. But TIM is in charge, and is quite reasonable when he explains his demand to leave the C-Base intact. He has more information and resources than I, so I have to accept his judgement.
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The US: I don't see the US dominating Europe, or the former CCCP.
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Are you kidding? The US is the biggest fish in the pond, which is enough already to define domination. And the USSR is called now "former" because of American dominance.
But here is the latest example, that there is more to it, just from today: Sweden charged the notorious WikiLeaks owner Julian Assange with rape and molestaion. If you've followed the WikiLeaks scandal, you know whom Sweden wants to please. And it's not even a NATO member.
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The US, the CCCP and others fought to bring down germany in WWII: to bring down, not dominate.
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To bring down to dominate. That's right.
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Today every war the US fights ends with a retreat
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With an orderly withdrawal. Even the Vietnam War.
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, when the situation is stable (or maybe less so).
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when the country in questinon is totally FUBARed.
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Only domination there is is cultural
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Which is enough. Hitler wanted only cultural domination for the so called Arian race.
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: be free, earn money, buy stuff, consume, be happy.
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Which is totally hostile to the said countries' way of life. They want to be free from American influence. They don't want to earn money for American businessmen and congressmen. They don't want to buy American stuff. They don't want to consume worthless crap. They want to beat their women to death with stones in case of adultery. That's what they want. But America comes to them whenever it sees fit and denies those freedoms to them because America dominates the world.
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In other words: I don't see that analogy working.
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In other words, it's not an analogy. It's the law like that by which the Universe spins around. You either dominate or are dominated. It's simple as that, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Finally, please don't call me "son".
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Sorry, couldn't resist.
I said "Hitler". This conversation is over.
Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 août 2010 - 06:42 .
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