In Exile wrote...
But Jack, personality trauma aside, was a resounding success. She is an incredibly powerful biotic. If they experiment on more children and refine the process more, perhaps come up with a biochemical analogue, then they could come up with a way to mass produce far superior biotics.
And all it would cost is a bunch of traumatized chidlren. TIM isn't getting his jollies by setting puppies on fire, but would be perfectly happy to set puppies on fire it if advanced some cause. So the fact that humans are entirely expendable in his eyes makes him a very poor champion of humanity. He's four steps away from reasoning that being reaper slushee is better than extinction.
More to the point, you didn't answer my question. I did not ask why TIM decides; I asked what gave him the right to decide. If we are talking about justification, why should any person be able to decide how to alter humanity?
I did answer your question, basically 'might is right.' The fact that Cerberus is pro-active gives him some credibility in doing what he thinks is best. You're free to disagree with him of course.
I disagree with Pragia not because of the fact they succeeded in creating biotic super soldiers, nor for the fact they used children either, but because it was...inefficient. Finding out whether pain breaks down mental barriers seems wasteful in the sense that other methods (that might not bite them in the ass afterwards) could be more effective.
The benefits of hind-sight.
In Exile wrote...
There is nothing wrong with improving our abilities. But there is a difference between training, researching, and eugenics.
TIM is very clearly on one extreme of this debate.
In all honesty, I don't see why eugenics is automatically a bad thing to do. As I understand it, the concept of eugenics only fell out of favour post WW2 in relation to those events, but to say that eugenics is 'bad' is like saying the swatsika is an evil symbol.
Eugenics is common place within the Mass Effect society anyway as everyone has the option of undergoing some method of genetic engineering (iirc the codex even mentions that most 'basic' genetic engineering are government subsidised, such as removing 'maternal predisposition for near-sightedness') and Alliance Marines undergo more rigorous genetic engineering projects (such as faster healing rate, such as 'Adrenaline rushes')
I argue that squandering an edge in any potential engagement is like playing with fire (and I think this analogy is even more apt)
In Exile wrote...
Yet if if I was a government official and told them to build a damn in a particular region, and the enviromental and human cost is irrelevant so long as the damn is build I am culpable for whatever happens. This is the essence of how TIM approaches development.
True, however TIM's entire motivation is based on what if's. I would argue that his belief of what could happen outweigh's his reservations on whether he should or shouldn't. While it would no doubt absolutely suck if you were on the receiving end, it's not as if he does it 'willy nilly.'
TIM is culpable anyway. If we are to assume that Cerberus is privately funded (as mentioned) and if we are to assume that they are not in any way still connected to the Alliance (save for spies) and that Kahoku was completely correct about their rogue status, then Cerberus' results would have to be analysed at some point (although, not necessarily their means) by their backers.
If their backers were told: "We'll develop biotic super soldiers" then Cerberus doesn't deliver then the Illusive Man's backers would pull or limit their support, even if said support is merely money.
In Exile wrote...
TIM has had very clear moments were he did not consider or otherwise value the human cost. Take the derelict reaper - he wanted it studied. He lost the team he sent, but learned how indoctrination can be effective even with barely active reaper technology. The value, suffering and lives of the people were never a concern - the so-called greater good was.
I think you have confused your logic, TIM didn't send them out
with the express purpose to die. They had no way of knowing that the Reaper indoctrination field was still working prior to their arrival (and even then, it wasn't immediate -- the Cerberus base was well set up prior to your arrival).
When the indoctrination field was discovered; Cerberus didn't devote people to retrieving the IFF before knowing what the IFF was used for. This implies to me that TIM does value his workers lives, since they essentially disbanded the operation (ie., without further jeopardizing other personnel) . It's only because your team needed the IFF to pass through the relay that he gave you the information.
In Exile wrote...
At some point, though, this greater society that TIM wants to build can become so distant from our own, and involve means so abhorent to get there, that it is not worth getting in the first place; not to mention his perfect future may not be all that desirable to begin with.
I will have to beg your forgiveness when I dismiss this as nothing more than alarmist hyperbole.
In Exile wrote...
It does not matter what he is willing to do for himself; he still does not have the right to decide for other people. Let's say Jack was his daughter. Does that fact make the death and torture of all those other children - hell, does it make the torture of Jack justified?
Torture isn't justified in this case (and I say 'this case' because I doubt sitting around a nice table and serving tea and scones with terrorists will get you the information you require). But the issue of improving humanity is. My thought processes will probably be different to yours because I do believe in transhumanism.
As to whether he has the 'right,' well that's for history to judge. Genghis Khan for example is known to have given the order to massacre entire civilian populations yet he still did things like: create compulsory schooling, created a unified empire, created a unified writing language, pushed for religious tolerance, made a meritocracy (although genghis and his family itself would be immune from this -- I wish Australia had this system...) -- and he did this all without being duly elected by the people. He forced his role, 'stepped up' and became perhaps the single 'greatest' warlord in human history.
In Exile wrote...
If humanity "at the top" is some machine organic hybrid, that is so geneticaly altered as to be only superficially similar to the "old" humanity, then do you still have humanity? At some point if you work on turning a chair into a car you end up losing the chair.
Since I believe in transhumanism, I'd like to think that being a human has more to do with who you are as opposed to how many fingers you have, or what colour your skin or hair is or even if you have pieces of metal within you.
Retour en haut
"Daily life" really billions of people are going to die from the Reapers. Council fleets will be decimated. Slavers and pirates taking advantage of the council weakened military attacking civilized clusters frequently. Quarians being nearly extinct. Krogan population explosion . Rachni population explosion after being extinct for over a 1000 years.
so spending 17 billion credits to resurrect you billions more to give you a warship crew EDI and other resources, giving you intel to take down the Collectors, Reaper IFF is CLEARLY not helping you.
I see your logic you only want to see the negative side of everything Cerberus doesB) I can play that game too.![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
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