23 réponses à ce sujet

[Tonytobinus]

I'm speaking specifically in regards to modules that have pre-adventure levellers to accomodate players bringing a new character into something with a higher starting level.  I am currently doing this for my own module, and upon testing, it occured to me that the levelling process could potentially take an extremely long time for anyone not spamming the recommended button.  When I mean long time, I mean the starting level for this adventure is 20, and you can bring a 4 person team. 

So you could be sitting there levelling up characters 80 times in a row before getting into the action!

The process is optional, of course.  You can bring in characters that are already level 20, or whatever level you like, really. In fact, I encourage that - I'm designing this module for high level characters who have saved the Realms a few times already and need to be dusted off and played with.  But for the people out there who may want to play it, and don't have high level characters - is this WAY too much work to keep their interest?  And should I care enough to question the design?

[Morbane]

You could do like MoTB it started the levelling process in a conversation and gave the option to level according the the PC's Package which they chose before starting. So, ya - give them a choice.

[dunniteowl]

With all the 'build' discussions that abound, I think 'tis pretty safe territory. Myself, even though I am not a build-a-phile, I like to sit there and create characters. To me, it's just part of the overall game experience. I never started off as a high level character that I didn't import from some other adventure. That said, I had to to through this in Misery Stone, Storm of Zehir and Legacy of White Plume Mountain (in that case, I had 4 total characters to take from 1st to 9th, so yeah, it took a while.)

Still, I see plenty of requests over time for High level modules, so you should be okay, I'd say. Don't worry about it overmuch.

dunniteowl

[PJ156]

Personally I would not like to build 4 lv 20 characters for a mod. Building (or having) a PC is no problem but buiding the other three I would find painful. Might we have to equip them too. I find part of the problem with this for me is that I will often do the first 15 - 20 mins of a mod to get a feel for it, then change character/class/ I might do this twice before I settle in. I did this in MoTB and got pretty bored with the character creation bit.

A set of premade characters could be good, perhaps the PC could select from a list as in BGII pocket plane, certainly at least have a recommend button. Perhaps you could line up the options and the PC could interview them .

Another possibility might be to allow 4 pre run characters, then the player might have older SoZ characers they could pull in.

PJ

[Gilradthegreat]

I'll vote for having more high-level mods. As far as I know, there's a grand total of two single-player mods that even get close to the epic levels, one of them isn't compatible with SoZ content.

(that's not to say I'm expecting it to reach epic levels, but you can look at the level distribution like a reverse exponential curve, with a sea of lv 1 mods at the bottom, and slim pickings the higher you go up)

Modifié par Gilradthegreat, 21 août 2010 - 09:08 .

[The Fred]

I'd agree. Mod levels follow something of a power curve, and while I'm not personally keen on high-level ones, there aren't that many to chose from compared with the first-level starters or the ones where you get a few levels.



That said, I'd also agree that while creating a character and leveling them is fun enough, leveling 4 characters to L20 would be pretty boring. The idea of providing some pre-made ones might be a good one (maybe if you make and level a "basic" staple of each main role, perhaps fighter/cleric/rogue/mage and put them up for download along with your module). Given it's a 4-person game, people might like a spare character to fill in a space even if they don't want a pre-made one for their main char.

[Gilradthegreat]

I guess the argument I forgot to make related to the power-curve is, for most people, you're not really leveling four characters from L1 to L20, you're taking four characters that had their careers cut short from a lack of mods, and taking them from 13-ish to 20, which is much less daunting because for most of them you already have a direction and goal.



Heck, to continue this hypothetical epic-level four-character mod, if you make it require SoZ, chances are four high-level characters would most certainly already exist; the party used to get through SoZ in the first place!



I would agree that spending 40 minutes in front of leveling screens can be tedious, but if the majority of players love mods as much as me, chances are their localvault is teeming with heroes that are pretty close to the starting level.

[Tonytobinus]

Another possibility might be to allow 4 pre run characters, then the player might have older SoZ characers they could pull in.

This is exactly how it works now.  I'm using the SoZ party creation system, so it will work exactly like that.  The '80 total levels of character building' is a worst case scenario that I actually imagine few people who still play NWN2 this long after launch will have.  That said, including premade characters is a great solution.  Pre-levelled and pre-equipped.  I'll even include a prompt at startup to let players decide if they'll need levelling or not.  The 'interview the NPC' idea is awesome, but a little too involved for what I'm doing (especially since my concern is cutting down on time spent before the adventure begins).

[nicethugbert]

I wouldn't pass up a good module just because I needed to level 4 characters to 100. I already have my fav builds and fav 4 PC party all worked out and stored in nwn2db.com that I can tweak to suit the module.



The only problem I see is equipping them. It's tough not to go overboard in a trainer. That problem I have no matter what level.

[Shallina]

usually poeple don't lvl char, they take char they have played in other module that are at the good lvl

[kamalpoe]

Include the option to bring in the SoZ party. They're pretty close to the right level.

[Arkalezth]

Agreed with NTB. If the module is good, I don't mind spending some time levelling the characters. And it shouldn't take long if you have an idea of what characters you want to create.



You can do as The Fred says, providing a balanced created party to download in the module page.



There are few high level modules, and I'm not talking about epic here, anything with more than 13 levels or so is a rare sight, so a module with a higher level range would be welcomed, I think.

[Tonytobinus]

kamalpoe, don't know if you would know this, but is there a specific way to bring in the SoZ party, including their party name, motto, and backstory? I'm checking out the party registration interface now, and it only seems to be able to load premade characters.

[Bria Swiftblade]

Tonytobinus wrote...

This is exactly how it works now.  I'm using the SoZ party creation system, so it will work exactly like that.  The '80 total levels of character building' is a worst case scenario that I actually imagine few people who still play NWN2 this long after launch will have.  That said, including premade characters is a great solution.  Pre-levelled and pre-equipped.  I'll even include a prompt at startup to let players decide if they'll need levelling or not.  The 'interview the NPC' idea is awesome, but a little too involved for what I'm doing (especially since my concern is cutting down on time spent before the adventure begins).

That was going to be my suggestion, but then, you already knew that.

[The Fred]

Those characters, if also pre-equipped, would also be a good benchmark for people making new characters. You could, for example, measure the gold piece value in total of all their equipment (probably you would then average it and adjust each one to the average) and then give the player that much gold when entering, or tell them if they have too much.

[Haplose]

A module for high-level chars? Cool!

I certainly don't mind levelling my "main". It could be tedious for 4 chars, doing the whole 1-20 thing. But then again, it should be no problem to use some characters made earlier, for other modules. Or, like has been said, a SoZ party.

Modifié par Haplose, 22 août 2010 - 01:10 .

[M. Rieder]

No problems here.  When you got MOTB, did'nt it come with a bunch of 18th-ish level characters?  A player could use those.

Modifié par M. Rieder, 22 août 2010 - 01:07 .

[Tonytobinus]

Given the nature of the only store in the game, I'm wondering if I should bother with that. The player is hired to do something, and they are given half their pay up front. Also in the area is the opportunity to stock up on supplies before heading out (sort of like the shop in the beginning of Oregon Trail). There won't be another shop throughout the adventure, but there will be opportunities to pick up new items.



Now, I could spend time creating a script that gets the faction's gold amount, and loops through the items in their inventory, adding the value of each one to the gold amount. Then take that total number and compare it to a "sell limit" interger,and create two stores: a full supply store with weapons and items that opens if the faction's net worth is less than the number, and a minimal 'healing kits and traps' store that opens if the party is already equipped with enough expensive items. Update that number every time their inventory is disturbed by adding a new item, and close the store when it exceeds the goal amount.



Now, if this store were more important to the plot, or if the script were appearing in more than one place, I would *totally* do that. And in the future I probably will, because I really really like the idea of that script. But I dont think it's really worth it in this case. The way I see it, the reward money is their to spend however they want. If they come into the game unarmed, it will definitely be put to good use. If they come fully equipped and decide to spend the gold on redundant items, or come with tons of gold and buy out the store, that is their decision and it won't really unbalance the game that much.



...and this has basically been me talking myself down from doing more than I need to

[Tonytobinus]

Oops, that's a little confusing. I was responding to Fred there.



and M. Rieder, those are the characters I've been testing this with. But I dont mind rolling a few special characters just to give players more options.

[LeeMer47]

Tonytobinus wrote...

kamalpoe, don't know if you would know this, but is there a specific way to bring in the SoZ party, including their party name, motto, and backstory? I'm checking out the party registration interface now, and it only seems to be able to load premade characters.

You copy the roster and player information from one save game to another. Just don't mess with globals. and module save files.

[The Fred]

What you could do is create a small leveling area where the player can create their team, get any gold they need, and have access to a no-markup store (i.e. sells at the same price at which it buys, the base price) full of basic items of all types (like every weapon variety etc). Then, once they have all been brought up to a standard level, you can progress with the module with or without any reward money etc which is story-related.



Of course, this would be a little more work, too, but would ensure that well-equipped characters are only better off than unequipped ones if they are over-equipped.

[Tonytobinus]

*nods* that's the idea of my prologue, Fred - I just made that area in the context of the story, and threw in a small cutscene for a little extra added exposition.

[The Fred]

OK right. I wasn't sure whether it was part of the main game rather than a sort of leveling section, but if it's a leveling section which is worked into the game, that's even better (since a little "level up and have some gold" area is good, but does break immersion a bit, though I would kinda just consider it an extension of the character creation process).

[Tonytobinus]

Exactly. And I don't fault any designer who just makes it an out-of-context element. My own attempt will still be a little immersion-breaking, since in at least once instance I break 'character' to explain to the player the consequences of skipping the opportunity to use the store to gear up. My feeling, however, is that if I'm already going through the motions of creating the area, I might as well take the opportunity to introduce the player to the adventure a little, at least let them understand *why* their character is going on this adventure, before I dump them right into it.