70 réponses à ce sujet

[RIZzoy]

Just got my Sword of vigilance for the 5th time. three paragon fire runes. my rogue/warrior. rocks

[Zjarcal]

RIZzoy wrote...

Just got my Sword of vigilance for the 5th time. three paragon fire runes. my rogue/warrior. rocks

How is that related to this thread?

[ninja0809]

Zjarcal wrote...

RIZzoy wrote...

Just got my Sword of vigilance for the 5th time. three paragon fire runes. my rogue/warrior. rocks

How is that related to this thread?

lmao....alot of Mass Effect posts too  XD

Modifié par ninja0809, 22 août 2010 - 07:52 .

[CalJones]

Ah, perhaps his toughest decision is which runes to put in Vigilance. (I have yet to use it on my main character - my imported wardens have been mages and a rogue, thus far).

[ashwind]

If it is only between Connor and Isolde, it is only natural to let Isolde die. She will wish that she had died if Connor died instead and Emmon will never fully forgive her because she is the cause of Jowan having an easy time poisoning him which lead to Connor bargaining with the demon. Isolde will probably wish that she was dead because of guilt if she survives - so letting her die is merciful.

Loghain vs Aliester, Initially it was the toughest decision because like everyone else I just wanted the achievement. However, after recruiting Loghain and let Aliester leave and become King, I feel that it was the best thing to do.

Loghain definitely deserves a chance to redeem himself - after recruiting him and having his approval pushed to 90+, in one of his random conversations with Wynne about the battle of Ostagar - It tells that Loghain morns for the dead of Ostagar probably more than anyone else.

The hero of River Dane made 1 tactical error because he does not have all the information needed to make the right decision, made 1 very bad personal decision because he had nobody but Howe to trust. Aliester on the other hand is a big baby whining and crying over the death of Duncan and personal grief. He needs to be toughen for the good of Feralden if he were to be king - If Duncan had survive, he would not be crying for Loghain's death.

The toughest decision I had to make was actually the dark ritual. i did it once and deleted all traces of the save games related to that.

Grey Warden Motto: In war, victory. In peace, vigilance. In death, sacrifice!
In Aliester's word: If you perform the ritual, you would have cheapen us all!

Modifié par ashwind, 22 août 2010 - 09:12 .

[Sarah1281]

Grey Warden Motto: In war, victory. In peace, vigilance. In death, sacrifice!

In Aliester's word: If you perform the ritual, you would have cheapen us all!

And yet he's really not all that hard to convince to do it...IMO, the dark ritual will only be able to conclusively be labelled a bad decision if the OGB comes back and starts performing acts of unspeakable evil. A little evil, like if it wants to become a petty bandit, would be tolerable because anyone could do that. It would only be really bad if it goes on to do something major.

[Monica21]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Grey Warden Motto: In war, victory. In peace, vigilance. In death, sacrifice!
In Aliester's word: If you perform the ritual, you would have cheapen us all!

And yet he's really not all that hard to convince to do it...IMO, the dark ritual will only be able to conclusively be labelled a bad decision if the OGB comes back and starts performing acts of unspeakable evil. A little evil, like if it wants to become a petty bandit, would be tolerable because anyone could do that. It would only be really bad if it goes on to do something major.

The reason I'll likely never feel bad about doing the DR, and why it's a pretty easy decision, is because it'll either become canon and A Big Deal or it'll never be mentioned again. If it's canon it'll be a different Warden's decision that your PC will have to deal with, so no consequences for your current PC. If it's never mentioned again, then the OGB is entirely irrelevant to the rest of the DA universe.

If BioWare couldn't even import your dead Warden's decisions into Awakenings, then it's highly unlikely they'll ever import your Origins decisions into another game.

Modifié par Monica21, 22 août 2010 - 06:27 .

[Zjarcal]

The Grey Warden motto can jump off a cliff for all I care.



Like Sarah said, if the OGB turns out to be a terrible entity, one capable of unleashing something as bad as a Blight, then the DR could be considered a bad decision. Anything less than that, pfft.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ashwind wrote...
Grey Warden Motto: In war, victory. In peace, vigilance. In death, sacrifice!
In Aliester's word: If you perform the ritual, you would have cheapen us all!

That's only pertinent if you give a damn about the Wardens and see yourself as one (which is perfectly valid). I don't.
And I couldn't care less what Alistair would think on the issue (or most issues to be precise).

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Oh yea right (can't believe I forgot that. How did my interest wane so?!). Hmmm, Eamon's in deep ****. I would still prefer Isolde dying for the first reason listed.

Isolde dying is probably better for the second reason as well as he can try to find someone else to marry without mages in her family.

It's only a good choice if you trust Jowan to perform a very difficult ritual.  My Dalish mage PC figured he would probably kill Isolde, kill the mage going into the Fade, and it still wouldn't work.  Jowan doesn't exactly give off the "competent and powerful" vibe, y'know?  So it seemed to her that since she didn't have a Dalish keeper or two around to help her perform the ritual and wasn't willing to put her life in Jowan's hands, the only way to make sure the killing stopped was to end it at the source.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 août 2010 - 07:39 .

[Addai]

jln.francisco wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Oh yea right (can't believe I forgot that. How did my interest wane so?!). Hmmm, Eamon's in deep ****. I would still prefer Isolde dying for the first reason listed.

Isolde dying is probably better for the second reason as well as he can try to find someone else to marry without mages in her family.

It's only a good choice if you trust Jowan to perform a very difficult ritual.  My Dalish mage PC figured he would probably kill Isolde, kill the mage going into the Fade, and it still wouldn't work.  Jowan doesn't exactly give off the "competent and powerful" vibe, y'know?  So it seemed to her that since she didn't have a Dalish keeper or two around to help her perform the ritual and wasn't willing to put her life in Jowan's hands, the only way to make sure the killing stopped was to end it at the source.

The Fade Spirit?

Killing Connor, I mean.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'll admit to killing Conner. It was a decision made for both in-character and out-of-character reasons (wanting to see it), and out-of-character I'm glad I did it.



Perhaps the biggest aspect of the choice was the need to face the Blight. Isolde is the Arlessa: Teagan is only a Bann: resting the ability to rally the Arl Eamon's entire estate is something I wanted to someone who was accustomed to it. Bann Teagon was already overwhelmed by defending Redcliffe Village, and I didn't want to rely on on-the-job training to prepare me for the Blight. Conner was (mostly) blameless, but Isolde could help prepare for the Blight.



Or, at least, that's what my elf-mage told himself, time and time again. He really didn't have a choice.



See, he started this journey as a presumptuous borderline-wannabe evil mage. Specialized in the darker magics, blood mage (role played as one of those blood mages in the Circle, but left before he could master anything), he saw Grey Wardenhood as license to do whatever he wanted, which was to do whatever he wanted without consequence. He hated the Chantry for the usual mage reasons, laughed as he slaughtered that prison of a Tower, and revelled in doing all sorts of things. Never thought twice about helping Jowan go, or slaughtering everyone in his way on the general principal.



But Redcliffe was where things caught up to him. Running into Jowan again, he forced his friend to run off, unaware that Jowan would be necessary to enter the fade. When he had at last fought his way through the castle, he didn't blame Conner, and really would have preferred to kill the demon. But he had destroyed the Circle gleefully, had given Jowan freedom to run, and now there was nothing he could do: Conner was an incurable abomination by no fault but wanting to help his father, and my mage, for all of his power and ability to destroy, could not save a single life.



It would have been easier, had Conner just been mindless or totally controlled. But he wasn't. Looking my mage in the eyes, accepting his death, no crying or begging, he just asked one question.



'Will it hurt?'



My mage found he couldn't lie: I'll try to not let it, he said, and as he drew back the blade (Arcane Warrior) Conner put the final nail in my mage's presumptions of grandeur. 'I'll try to help you, to resist the demon,' he said, even as he was about to die. This boy, this human boy, showed more strength of character than my mage had evidenced to date.



At camp, Alistair yelled at the Warden, at how he could kill a child. My Warden yelled back, that Alistair had been right there with him. Alistair apologized, and things settled, but that night marked a change for my mage. He stopped pretending, wanting to be some evil master mage, dominating others and wanting power. He still took the Dark Ritual loop hole (Morrigan and he had a prior relationship which only became healthier after his change), but when the boon came even I was surprised when he asked to be Chancelor, as opposed to titles and riches.

[Carmen_Willow]

Zjarcal wrote...

Eudaemonium wrote...

I'm also pretty sure, not certain tho, that Alistair tells you you should ahve gone to the circle even after you annulled it, but I might be wrong there.

During his rant at camp? It may very well be the case. That conversation is kind of buggy. For instance if you killed Isolde, at some point he should say "this is the arl's wife we're talking about here", but depending on the dialogue choice you make he may still say "this is the arl's son we're talking about here".

EDIT: The worse part about the whole situation is that my character didn't even "choose" to kill Connor. She said she needed more time to think when Bann Teagan asked for a decision, went upstairs and got too close to the arl's room, which of course causes the demon to take over Connor once again. At that point it's not about whether we choose to kill him or not, it's kill him or die.

I had that happen as well. So I was angry when Alistair yelled at me in camp.

To all those who decry Alistair's suggestion that it may be necessary to kill Conor and then his anger after you kill Conor may I suggest that the Alistair who made the suggestion was the rational adult trained by Templars in the dangers of demons Alistair while the person who yells at you in camp is the little boy Alistair who is afraid that the only pseudo father he'd had for years will disown him forever because of your decision.

Alistair's behavior in camp, while making me angry, also made him more human. He's not a coldly rational vulcan who never lets emotion get in the way.  He'a a flawed human being like the rest of us who can be irrational and annoying. 

My point is that we all have a scared kid inside us who pops out from time to time.  I just wish there'd been another dialogue option.  I was sick at having to kill a child, and the writers didn't give me a dialogue choice that would let me express that.  

[Addai]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

To all those who decry Alistair's suggestion that it may be necessary to kill Conor and then his anger after you kill Conor may I suggest that the Alistair who made the suggestion was the rational adult trained by Templars in the dangers of demons Alistair while the person who yells at you in camp is the little boy Alistair who is afraid that the only pseudo father he'd had for years will disown him forever because of your decision.

I agree and well said. It's an irrational freak-out and all about Eamon, as you can get him to admit with the Cunning option.

On another thread, I compared him to Jon Snow in Song of Ice and Fire, a bastard who is more protective of his "trueborn" brothers and sisters than they are of each other, even though the mother of the family treats him like dirt.  Alistair is protective of Eamon's family even though, or rather because of the fact, he was left out of it.

He does fear Eamon's rejection, as you can also see in this bit where (unhardened) he talks about Eamon changing his mind about Alistair because Anora is there.

[Zjarcal]

@Carmen_Willow:



That's the way I see it too. It's like he knew that killing Connor was the most rational option but once it was done he freaked out. If he had done it himself he probably would've gone "what have I done, I am a monster!". It's a very humanizing moment, no doubt about that.



It doesn't make it any less annoying though. Especially the part of telling the PC, "I just don't know how you could make that decision", as if the PC's decision wasn't influenced by everyone else in the room.

[TJPags]

I didn't see a really tough decision in the game. Sure, kill Connor/kill Isolde/go to the Tower seems like a tough one, but when you're standing there, it's not that tough - the life of Isolde, who is to a large degree responsible for what is going on AND is willing to die v what could have happened in the time it took to go to the Tower. Really, killing Isolde is kind of cut and dry, there.



Bhelen v Harromont wasn't heart wrenching or anything, but was difficult simply because they both ****** me off so much, and both seem like pretty shady characters.



The rest of the decisions in this game - the toughest really comes does to, which NPC's should I take with me when I go "here"

[ShadowPhoenix82]

I know everyone focused on the Connor/Isolde dilemma because the original poster chose that at their most difficult decision...but as they asked which was our most difficult, and only a couple have been mentioned, I feel the need to mention mine. During my first play-through, I created an Elven Mage whom would act on my own personal morals in decision making, therefor being my avatar character. He was generally well-mannered and logical, with occasional wit and a strong desire for magic integration into the community. He felt that the Circle had rescued him from the abuses of the small town alienage he lived in, and he wants to promote a positive view of magic to the world so that they eventually accept mages and magic as a boon to society.

Character aside, I come to the decision which some might find obscure and insignificant but I sat for literally hours considering the potential future ethical and societal consequences of the decision. During the crisis within my character's beloved Circle Tower, our party came across a lust demon whom had entranced a man into thinking it was his dead wife, and that they had a family and that life happily continued as he desired although in reality he was all alone. The demon had been wooed by this soldier's deep depression and great longing for all he had lost, which it could satisfy for him. The demon pleaded that I let it have the man in peace, although logic would dictate that you can't let this demon roam around free. If I kill the demon, the man will lose his dream and awaken to a nightmare reality. Because of personal circumstances, I empathized deeply with this man, and the question of whether truth is more important than happiness was a difficult one for me to answer. After a few hours I ultimately chose to let the demon be. I would deal with the consequences as they came, but I could not stand to be the demon that tore this man's life apart for a second time, saving him only to remind him he no longer has anything to live for.

My second most difficult choice was how to handle the entire matter of Alistair's duty to the throne. I don't need to go into that as others have plenty of times before me.

[ShadowPhoenix82]

Oh yeah I also meant to comment on people's annoyance of Alistair, and even had something typed out...but it took so look to update my password and blah blah that days later I'd forgotten what I originally meant to post, and made the previous post instead. Fortunately, Carmen_Willow pretty much voiced all I was going to suggest in that post, so I feel absolved from my poor performance at posting my opinion, lol.