201 réponses à ce sujet

[ciaweth]

This was written as an April Fool joke, but it's relevant here.

[Saibh]

iTomes wrote...

ok, heres for everyone who appearantly isn't bright or whatever enough to do some research before posting "gurls arenttt in biowaaare trailerz bio is sexisstt booo". simply have a look at the youtube channel of dragon age. there are videos featuring females. for example this one (secon half, first is male human noble...).  now friggin stop ranting...

No one. Has said that. No one has been calling BioWare sexist--if this is the case, they need a reality check.

Some people forget the trailers before ME and DAO existed. Also, it still stings how completely ignored FemShep is in the ME marketing campaigns. The major trailers in DAO, however, all featured a male protagonist--only the ones with the Origins did not, unless one has completely slipped my mind. It was cool, certainly, to see a girl, but it also would have been incredibly strange if they were all male.

Also, the example given was a developer diary, which is not the same thing as a trailer.

[krimesh]

Saibh wrote...

krimesh wrote...

tez19 wrote...

it's political correctness gone mad!!
first they want the vote, and now they want their own bloody game trailers.

in all seriousness though like i said why would bioware bother when i bet the majority (by far) of its consumers are male. i would go as far as say about 85-90% are male, i have nothing to base this on it is just a personal opinion as i have never known a female gamer and very very rarely ever see one on xbox live.

I may not be typical, but I cannot remember ever having finished an RPG with a female character. If I were female it might well have been the other way around. So to me it seems quite understandable why women might want more support for their character creation choice. If that is feasible is another question. The ME 2 trailer, say, is really a work of art and you can't just swap Shepard's model without breaking it. Males and females ARE different, you know. Also females are rather new to the Shepard-role, so a femShep trailer might actually be harder to make. Or maybe thats just me. I really should play femShep to find out how they managed that.

Um...



I'd say that worked out pretty well. Some things were changed, most was not. It was even featured on the BioWare blog. And, I don't get your "females are rather new to the Shepard-role"? You mean being leaders? Playing Shepard? 

What I meant was that Shepard is the classical hero-character, leader, soldier, mankind's only hope, that stuff. And that was a virtually purely male role for a very long time. So if you want to communicate femShep to a wide audience you can't build on all that culture; there is no template for her in peoples heads yet. Thats hard to do. I can't tell if that trailer does that... I already have a very strong idea of who Shepard is, independent of gender.

[tez19]

i still stand by my opinion that i dont know any girls that plays games like guys do and that i hardly ever see girls on xbox live, sure when i play cod i see one now and then but hardly ever.

which leads me to think that males outnumber females drastically when it comes to gaming.

which is why bioware and every other company seem to concentrate more on the male versions in trailers and what not.

you can play your character in game but why would bioware make a trailer targeted at the minority to generate sales? would not make business sense.

it really goesn't matter to me anyways though because i NEVER play as the default character i always create a replica of me as close as i can to be fully immersed in the game.

[swirlwind]

iTomes wrote...

ok, heres for everyone who appearantly isn't bright or whatever enough to do some research before posting "gurls arenttt in biowaaare trailerz bio is sexisstt booo". simply have a look at the youtube channel of dragon age. there are videos featuring females. for example this one (secon half, first is male human noble...).  now friggin stop ranting...

Who's ranting? All we want is to see LadyHawke. We all know what maleHawke looks like, and now we'd like to see the other option. I don't understand why you find that so offensive. Again, no need for a full-on Blur trailer, just some gameplay footage with a female PC, or even just a screenshot.

Since you brought it up, DA:O was the first BioWare in a while to show a female protagonist in any of the trailers. Mass Effect never had a BioWare trailer that showed femShep. But it's not about what's been done before, it's about what they're doing now. 

[ciaweth]

I don't really trust "business sense" arguments from someone who pulls stats out of his butt from personal, anecdotal experience and who can't capitalize properly.



Game companies are finding that marketing to women--particularly women who work and have, like, jobs and wallets--earns them more money than if they didn't. Google it. There are articles all over the place saying so. THAT is good business sense.

[Saibh]

krimesh wrote...

What I meant was that Shepard is the classical hero-character, leader, soldier, mankind's only hope, that stuff. And that was a virtually purely male role for a very long time. So if you want to communicate femShep to a wide audience you can't build on all that culture; there is no template for her in peoples heads yet. Thats hard to do. I can't tell if that trailer does that... I already have a very strong idea of who Shepard is, independent of gender.

Er...I'm trying to read that without being offended. You're saying "women aren't leaders/only hopes/soldiers/heroes, and people will refuse to see her as such"? I mean...it's not very common, but I don't think it's a matter of needing a template. I've never met a person who had a hard time accepting that FemShep could exist, before or after they played the game.

I mean, I'm sure there are some, but I've just never encountered anyone.

[iTomes]

Saibh wrote...

iTomes wrote...

ok, heres for everyone who appearantly isn't bright or whatever enough to do some research before posting "gurls arenttt in biowaaare trailerz bio is sexisstt booo". simply have a look at the youtube channel of dragon age. there are videos featuring females. for example this one (secon half, first is male human noble...).  now friggin stop ranting...

No one. Has said that. No one has been calling BioWare sexist--if this is the case, they need a reality check.

Some people forget the trailers before ME and DAO existed. Also, it still stings how completely ignored FemShep is in the ME marketing campaigns. The major trailers in DAO, however, all featured a male protagonist--only the ones with the Origins did not, unless one has completely slipped my mind. It was cool, certainly, to see a girl, but it also would have been incredibly strange if they were all male.

Also, the example given was a developer diary, which is not the same thing as a trailer.

yes, the trailers (mostly, im not certain) featured male characters. butr if im recalling it right, the trailers were only less on numbers and didn't show something important besides combat (i think...) . no matter what, much about the ranting was about non-featured females, and thats just not true. females were featured for DA1, so im almost certain they'll be featured for DA2. id dare to say that the more interesting vids tended to feature females.. besides, you cant take the mass effect example, thats another game, so the argument doesn't really count.
noone said bioware was sexistic, but many said that they would only do "totally male focused marketing", what is pretty much saying the same thing (and what is wrong, a female character wearing close-to-nothing would be muuch more male focused).

[tez19]

i am so sorry ciaweth i did not know this was an english lesson aswell as a forum. if my comment was unreadable i could understand your attack but as i think it is readable to anyone competent in english i do not.
it sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder..

Modifié par tez19, 21 août 2010 - 06:19 .

[tez19]

''i know i am going to make the best tasting burgers in the world and then advertise it solely for vegetarians, YESSSS i am going to be rich''

hmm.. i see your arguement ciaweth, that IS good business sense.

[Dynamomark]

If anyone needs a business advice, it's Electronic Arts, which lost $2 billion in the last 3 years

[iTomes]

swirlwind wrote...

iTomes wrote...

ok, heres for everyone who appearantly isn't bright or whatever enough to do some research before posting "gurls arenttt in biowaaare trailerz bio is sexisstt booo". simply have a look at the youtube channel of dragon age. there are videos featuring females. for example this one (secon half, first is male human noble...).  now friggin stop ranting...

Who's ranting? All we want is to see LadyHawke. We all know what maleHawke looks like, and now we'd like to see the other option. I don't understand why you find that so offensive. Again, no need for a full-on Blur trailer, just some gameplay footage with a female PC, or even just a screenshot.

Since you brought it up, DA:O was the first BioWare in a while to show a female protagonist in any of the trailers. Mass Effect never had a BioWare trailer that showed femShep. But it's not about what's been done before, it's about what they're doing now. 

didn't jade empire also feature females pretty strongly?? Lotus Blossom or what her name was, im not sure. anyhow, considering the DA1 trailers and the fact that mike laidlaw already confirmed that well see ladyhawke "very soon", theres no need for postulating what we'll already get. so whats mainly going on here is totally uninformed complainment. i mean, just because you say "want to see now" you dont get to see anything earlier. and the OPs post was simply one of the most .... things i ever saw: send a postcard to see what youll see anyhow. yes. that makes sense. and one more thing about the not-featured females in earlier games: female gamers were rare in the early days, if im not misinformed...

Modifié par iTomes, 21 août 2010 - 06:23 .

[Saibh]

iTomes wrote...

yes, the trailers (mostly, im not certain) featured male characters. butr if im recalling it right, the trailers were only less on numbers and didn't show something important besides combat (i think...) .

Most of the trailers showed story, cutscenes, sex scenes, other characters, and plot, and usually clips of some combat.

no matter what, much about the ranting was about non-featured females, and thats just not true. females were featured for DA1, so im almost certain they'll be featured for DA2.

You saw women, occasionally. I'm not doubting that. But DAO was absolutely unique in their Origin stories--it made showing women much more accessible. Hawke is pre-defined, as Shepard was, which is where this fear is coming from. Also, we've never gotten a full-blown only-female trailer, IIRC. Just clips of the girl character inside the larger trailer.

id dare to say that the more interesting vids tended to feature females.. besides, you cant take the mass effect example, thats another game, so the argument doesn't really count.

Like I said: only Mage and City Elf Origins. I can't remember any of the others having a female character, except briefly seeing a bit of Zevran's sex scene in his character trailer.

And, er...yes you can. You most certainly can.

noone said bioware was sexistic, but many said that they would only do "totally male focused marketing", what is pretty much saying the same thing (and what is wrong, a female character wearing close-to-nothing would be muuch more male focused).

These fears have a ground. And they have done totally male-focused marketing, which is why we fear it now. Under your logic, that would mean they are sexist, since they've already proven to do exactly that.

[tez19]

wow some 'ladys' if they can be called that are quite aggresive and nasty on here lol.
maybe that is what gaming does to girls, make them lose their ladylike manners.
as i have stated i believe males outnumber females greatly when it comes to gaming. i know alot of females (not to boast) and none of them play games like males.
and again i hardly ever see girls on xbox live, ever. so i believe the arguement of 'there are alot of girl gamers' is invalid.
that is just my opinion as it does not bother me in the slightest if there was more girl gamers then guy gamers. and a female hawke trailer wouldn't bother me at all either.
i just don't think it is going to happen any time soon and you aggresive girls should get used to that.

p.s the aggresive girl statement is directed to a minority of girls on here. most such as saibh are pleasant and share their opinions without sounding like a feminist.

Modifié par tez19, 21 août 2010 - 06:32 .

[Saibh]

tez19 wrote...

''i know i am going to make the best tasting burgers in the world and then advertise it solely for vegetarians, YESSSS i am going to be rich''
hmm.. i see your arguement ciaweth, that IS good business sense.

Okay. I'm going to be juvenile about this, since you don't want to get it:

I have statistics and yoooou don't I have statistics and yoooou don't~



Your 90%-men-only is completely made up in your own mind. Also, FYI, many girls pretend to be guys so they don't get harrassed.

Also, here. The article is cited. That number is rising pretty rapidly.

I refuse to be pleasant.

I R FEMALE!

Modifié par Saibh, 21 août 2010 - 06:33 .

[tez19]

grown man? doubtful.



shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..

[tez19]

you say you have statistics and then link me to wiki?

please...

[tez19]

we will never know how many men play dragon age and how many girls play dragon age but i would bet that the majority are male by far.

[iTomes]

@Saibh:

"You saw women, occasionally. I'm not doubting that. But DAO was absolutely unique in their Origin stories--it made showing women much more accessible. Hawke is pre-defined, as Shepard was, which is where this fear is coming from. Also, we've never gotten a full-blown only-female trailer, IIRC. Just clips of the girl character inside the larger trailer. "

ME has other devs and due to the action-shooter-thingie aspects also propably another audience. i know plenty of people who love ME2 but hate DA:O for its "too tactical". i also dont expect a trailer in the sense of "being showed on a gigantic thing like gamescom" but im sure there will be videos featuring the female character. the reason is simply that those guys who write internet previews or whatever are to a big part jerks and would only write some crap, nobody would really win then...

"These fears have a ground. And they have done totally male-focused marketing, which is why we fear it now. Under your logic, that would mean they are sexist, since they've already proven to do exactly that."

well, bioware did male focused marketing. for mass effect 2, for example, which is gameplaywise mainly a shooter. and of course in times were nobody really expected female gamers to be so many as they are now. there was a time when gaming was almost "only-men". this time is over now.

[ciaweth]

I'm embarrassed that I got sidetracked by a troll.



What I meant to come in here to say was, "Yes, I would like to see a Lady Hawke trailer too."

[tez19]

ahh the old if you disagree you are a troll comment.

you gota love the human race..

[swirlwind]

iTomes wrote...

didn't jade empire also feature females pretty strongly?? Lotus Blossom or what her name was, im not sure. anyhow, considering the DA1 trailers and the fact that mike laidlaw already confirmed that well see ladyhawke "very soon", theres no need for postulating what we'll already get. so whats mainly going on here is totally uninformed complainment. i mean, just because you say "want to see now" you dont get to see anything earlier. and the OPs post was simply one of the most .... things i ever saw: send a postcard to see what youll see anyhow. yes. that makes sense. and one more thing about the not-featured females in earlier games: female gamers were rare in the early days, if im not misinformed...

Yes, Jade Empire did feature Lotus Blossom in its advertising. Does that mean marketing for later games shouldn't feature female protagonists, since it was done once then and again when DA:O was advertised? Also, the launch of ME1 wasn't exactly in "the early days" of gaming. 

I have a hard time understanding where you're coming from here. It's not like we're asking something that takes something away from you, or anyone else, for that matter. Of course, asking for it to happen _right now_ isn't going to make it happen right now. However, asking for it in general makes it clear we want it. It's the only way to remind the devs and the marketing people that there's an audience here who really wants to see LadyHawke. Female gamers aren't exactly a rarity nowadays, and besides, it's not just females asking for it. So what's the beef?