21 réponses à ce sujet

[I Love The Realms]

As most know there is about 70 Persistent Worlds in Role Play with about 15 players or less. While we still pull new players and such I have been involved in numerous Persistent Worlds through out the years and I know the frustration that can come from this of watching something you made or tried to do in the end start to drift off.
 
Players lose interest or real life intrudes and suddenly you are down to 3 players and that’s it. While I do not think Player Numbers matter…it does feel good to have people to do quest with as Persistent Worlds by their very nature are social places.
 
So I am wondering why we as smaller servers do not ever talk about maybe a combine of our works to become something more? Is it not possible to do? Would any of the larger Servers want to get involved?
Yes, I do indeed know how hard it is to combine servers and palettes and find that line to script them together but I remember when two action servers joined a while back and doubled their numbers and basically saved the servers and people found New Blood and made New Friends. Always a plus.
 
Going on that mark I thought maybe a listing here of servers who would be willing to discuss this as Admins/Builders/Scripters/Players would be a good start. I have no problem setting a time and neutral spot at NWNCon 6 maybe to do this? Or we could all get on Skype and have a large group or even just branch out and talk about what we find successful as a group.
 
Pooling resources is always a good idea and working together to further our Community and even making it so players maybe even could find Persistent Worlds who share similar styles could take their beloved Characters from say a server in Thay to Waterdeep traveling through the Savage Frontier and the Western Heartlands.

My reasoning is two fold...to get some pointers as I think everyone could learn something from someone be it the CEO of Chase or the gardener of the CEO of Chase. Everyone has something to teach. And the other reason is it would be nice to make it so we have a large base of Worlds connected somehow. It would be a huge selling point for NWN to even be re-released maybe.

So what is the harm in talking?
 
Maybe list your server like this;
 
Persistent World Name;
Forum Link;
Haks(if any);
Style;

If you would rather not list your server BUT are interested please go ahead and contact myself and I will set up a time for us all to meet.

[TSMDude]

First,
thank you for spelling Persistent right.

Second,
we have tried this before and the two or three servers have balked at it more so I think because people are afraid to let go as we sweat and pour over these things. I would have no problem thought alking to any other server about it as just talking and doing is different.

Persistent World Name;
Tales of the Silver Marches

Forum Link;
Our Forum.

Haks(if any);
CEP 2.3

Style;
Role Play, Forgotten Realms, ummmm...low magic....not sure what else you want here...

[Eagles Talon]

This concept has been discussed by several worlds over the years. The main problems, as I see them, are that the various worlds have been created with a certain vision. Some use HAKs, some do not. Some are FR based, some Sci-Fi. Some are Role Play and some are Arena. Even within the Role Play section, the "definition" of role Play differes greatly from person to person and world to world. Some people view RP as very low magic and sitting in the tavern telling bard tales, while others view RP as an enjoyable addition to action adventures to be shared with others.



Some worlds have very little in common - geographiclly - from others. For Instance; a world based on FR The Sword Coast would have a difficult time "merging" with a FR Cormyr world. There is just too much space between the two in that FR world for the players to wrap their RP minds around. And then there are those that overlap or duplicate. where do you cut or where do you eliminate one persons creativity in favor of anothers.



Another issue is ego's. Let's face it, when it comes to the creative types, we all believe that the product we have is great, or at least that is our hope and goal. We want to be in control of how things are done. When we try to merge with another equally creative talent there are going to be ... issues to overcome. Who gets to be the one calling the shots? Who will take that back seat and work for someone else? And how long will that backseat person be happy with the way somebody else is controlling their creative process?



If there is indeed a possibility to merge, then there are other issues to consider. Module size is limited. Yes, you can run multiple modules and transfer between them, but there are problems with that process. The world I work with has three server mod instances that characters can travel between. We've been running those multiple instances for over a year and are still trying to work out bugs in the process.



I'd love to have a huge world and combine the creative juices of many worlds and gather many players to play in it. I just don't think it's all that practicle with this game engine. Yet.

[TSMDude]

Eagles Talon wrote...

Another issue is ego's. Let's face it, when it comes to the creative types, we all believe that the product we have is great, or at least that is our hope and goal. We want to be in control of how things are done. When we try to merge with another equally creative talent there are going to be ... issues to overcome. Who gets to be the one calling the shots? Who will take that back seat and work for someone else? And how long will that backseat person be happy with the way somebody else is controlling their creative process?.

That one is the biggets one there that I think it will never work. I would say a equal melding of Admins should be able to get along. We have 4 ourselves and by this it has helped alot. Course we all play Stouts in our worlds so needless to say we are probally like minded, lol.

I'd love to have a huge world and combine the creative juices of many worlds and gather many players to play in it. I just don't think it's all that practicle with this game engine. Yet.

Not as worried here on this as with several different uses of creative thing you can make it work. I am anxious to see the new crafting touted by CEP and think about...if servers agree to share a server vault or at elast access to it...how many more players would be willing to dl haks if 4 servers used the same one and same vault?

The cep and thier custom hak have made this little tidbit a way of doing things.

And considering combining worlds in my eyes I think would have to be a joint effort of which ever servers involved. So like you guys at FR The North and the pw FR- Savage Frontier are close in haks and like minds and combning you two would work as you use similiar haks.

[Perramas]

There is the Confederation of Planes and Planets, it is similar to what the OP proposed. CoPaP has several worlds linked together that follow a set of guide lines in there world creation and character advancement.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation_of_Planes_and_Planets

www.copap.org/

Modifié par Perramas, 21 août 2010 - 10:33 .

[Jenna WSI]

We've thought it over before, and decided it's just not for the World Serpent Inn. Too many differences in balance and level speed, rules, ban policies, general admin outlook, etc. We're very picky about even adding new dms and admin because we've been severely screwed over before. Unfortunate but there you have it. We do however, welcome designers and scripters that want to help us with projects, and we're much more relaxed on that.



Not to say it's a bad idea, just not for us. Good luck though!

[Eagles Talon]

That is part of the beauty that is NWN. Multiple worlds, unique philosophy for each. You don't have to fit into that cookie-cutter mold and play the same as everyone else. Different strokes for different folks. Would it be better to have a few or even several more players on all the time? Sure. But that's the price you pay for being unique. There are quality servers all over the place. I have played on several. I call one home, but I do go on "vacation" from time to time and visit new worlds, new civilizations, and boldly go wh...um, nevermind. A little more visiting by a bunch of people, and the player base all around might go up a bit. Dunno.

Modifié par Eagles Talon, 22 août 2010 - 10:31 .

[I Love The Realms]

Perramas wrote...

There is the Confederation of Planes and Planets, it is similar to what the OP proposed. CoPaP has several worlds linked together that follow a set of guide lines in there world creation and character advancement.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation_of_Planes_and_Planets

www.copap.org/

Thank you for the link.

Looking above and seeing the responses I am guessing it is a lost cause.

Too many egos as always and no one willing to bend.

A small quote for you all to think about;


~ The world is burning in the fire of desire, in greed, arrogance and excessive ego. ~
                                                                             Sri Guru Granth Sahib

[SuperFly_2000]

Sorry to be a bit negative here but design wise I don't think you will ever get something good from merging two things that where never intended to be merged from the start.



Probably the best is instead to start from scratch with someone in charge and a whole team of builders. That is at least how a proffessional company would do it.



Of course it is a problem with all the 0 player PW's. Our PW has the same problem. I would be happy with just a few players but we can't even seem to get that. Really...for me...2 players is enough. Then we would be 3 alltogether and that is a great co-op/RP/action party right there...



...shame you can't get that even.



Playing Battlefield 2 more and more....

[TSMDude]

I Love The Realms wrote...

~ The world is burning in the fire of desire, in greed, arrogance and excessive ego. ~
                                                                             Sri Guru Granth Sahib

Hey I am willing to bend!

Honestly though I think what will finally kill NWN is the fact that no one is willing to bend thier egos. Look at the boards here and you can see that. We actually have a game that could rival WoW if we as a Community were willing to come together for some cohesivness but lets face it....it aint going to happen.

Thanks for trying to start a discussion on it but wonders of wonders, I agree with Superfly that soon there will be just a few of us niche people and four large servers.

Seem we are destined to be back of the bus...

[Who said that I]

well I am certain that we can compete with WOW, Seeing that we have more varity then wow in the sense of quests and the inviroment and giving the players the ability to create their own realms to fight in and be creativ , as I do not see WOW do something like that.

But I must agree that there will be a lot of dead servers  someday with only a few big ones

Modifié par Who said that I, 01 septembre 2010 - 01:01 .

[TheSpiritedLass]

Bah, sorry for the double post.  Apparently I need more coffee this morning. 

Modifié par TheSpiritedLass, 01 septembre 2010 - 01:46 .

[TheSpiritedLass]

Alas, we are in a similar boat as Jenna. Our server is mythology based to be a different theme on purpose. We also use custom haks since the CEP wasn't around when the server started. I made the haks, so if in the process of merging your worlds, you run into hak merging questions, feel free to drop me a line.



That being said, if there are any other mythology based PWs out there... yeah, we would be quite interested.



Persistent World Name: Realms of Mythology



Forum Link: http://www.realmsofm...msbbs/index.php



Website Link: http://www.realmsofmythology.net



Haks: Extensive custom blend.

http://nwvault.ign.c...d=20023&id=6620



Style: Mythology, Role Play, Low Magic, No Minors.



-- Mistress

[Darkfire_Avlis]

Any questions about CoPaP feel free to ask me.

http://nwvault.ign.c...d.Detail&id=567

Jenna WSI wrote...

We've thought it over before, and
decided it's just not for the World Serpent Inn. Too many differences in
balance and level speed, rules, ban policies, general admin outlook,
etc. We're very picky about even adding new dms and admin because we've
been severely screwed over before. Unfortunate but there you have it. We
do however, welcome designers and scripters that want to help us with
projects, and we're much more relaxed on that.

Not to say it's a bad idea, just not for us. Good luck though!

Obviously it won't fit everyone, but I just wanted to point out that each world is independent, so staff, admins, or DMs of each world (such as Avlis to Arkaz) is completely different groups. A DM on Avlis has 100% zero authority on a different world and is incapable of DMing.

The rest of your points I can't comment on because, well, they're valid.  I just wanted to let you know about the above part if for nothing more for the sake of clarity.

Good luck

-Darkfire
A happy CoPaPian



Edit: Don't let the activity on the CoPaP forums trick you. They are rarely used by any of us. Check out the individual forums to better gauge it.

Modifié par Darkfire_Avlis, 01 septembre 2010 - 05:27 .

[Jenna WSI]

Well, I think if you can find the worlds with a really relaxed admin staff and fit them together by level cap, item power / leveling rate, and theme... it would definitely benefit a few people. I do hate to see people log out of NWN because there aren't enough medium sized servers around.

[TSMDude]

But it is happening. There is numerous servers I have seen dying of and while some of it has benefitted us in the long run it benefits none of us to lose players to other games.



It comes down how do we compete and make it so Role Playing Worlds or any type of PW stay in the hunt?



I think the OP orginally hoped for this exact discussion and bailed too ealry.Nothing ever happens quickw ith PWs and anytime and PW guy tells you one week add two weeks to it just cause, lol.



I really hope to someday see something were we get together and can acomplish this but heck, two of the servers I have even talked to are on this thread and regardless if they see it are not we all are on the back nine and to prolong and go another 18 holes we need to some way figure out how to adapt.



I think the best way and have seen it echoed a few times in other peoples post would be to combine groups and such. Pool our resources and Server Vaults. Have a true PW Community Counsel.



Sorry....I work for nonprofits and actually organize for a living in places like Hattai and Darfur so this just seems natural to me....so if I come off a little heav handed it is not my intention.

[kalbaern]

TSMDude wrote...

But it is happening. There is numerous servers I have seen dying of and while some of it has benefitted us in the long run it benefits none of us to lose players to other games.

It comes down how do we compete and make it so Role Playing Worlds or any type of PW stay in the hunt?

I think the OP orginally hoped for this exact discussion and bailed too ealry.Nothing ever happens quickw ith PWs and anytime and PW guy tells you one week add two weeks to it just cause, lol.

I really hope to someday see something were we get together and can acomplish this but heck, two of the servers I have even talked to are on this thread and regardless if they see it are not we all are on the back nine and to prolong and go another 18 holes we need to some way figure out how to adapt.

I think the best way and have seen it echoed a few times in other peoples post would be to combine groups and such. Pool our resources and Server Vaults. Have a true PW Community Counsel.

Sorry....I work for nonprofits and actually organize for a living in places like Hattai and Darfur so this just seems natural to me....so if I come off a little heav handed it is not my intention.

I think the best solution is to use the approach Avlis did. That is to have core rules and systems that all the linked PWs use and let each module have its own flavor after that.

It was mentioned earlier that two FR modules, one in Cormyr and the other in The Sword Coast wouldn't mesh well, but I disagree. Just because the Western Heartlands and The North are missing between these areas of Faerun doesn't mean the first two should never be connected. This is a fantasy game first and foremost and sometimes we all spend to much time worrying about scale and reality. I think that two such modules would entice others to fill in the gap between their map boundries. So distance is less of a concern, to me at least.

My own PW is in the Forgotten Realms and borders with some overlap the one TSM Dude has. We'd and others had discussed mergers, but it comes down to several issues which all parties needed to agree upon. Knowing what hindered us could help others here though.

1 - Hosting: TSM's original desire was to host all of the modules that would be linked. While this makes maintaining a common server vault less of an issue, it was also something I was personally wary of. My own PW has a dedicated server already and having to rely on someone else who at the time was having issues keeping theirs up just wasn't comforting. (Though that seems less of an issue nowadays)

2 - Rules: Rules were a big issue too. My own PW uses fairly strict rules on classes and builds. Stricter than TSMs own. We also don't allow anything but standard races as characters and TSM was adding subraces. Since we wouldn't consider allowing "their" subraces to visit "our" PW, that hinders alot of possibilities. Rules regarding multiclassing, prestige class requirements and deities I think we could have came to aggreements on, but "no subraces" was something I was firm on.

3 - Mechanics and Systems: Both of our PWs have modified spells, custom resting and foraging systems and crafting. Compromises here would've also been possible. XP though a big issue. Well, not XP gained, but how it's gained. TSM has a timed XP system that provides players with the lions share of XP gained IG. Ours does not. We instead use XP gained from quests, combat, foraging and fishing along with DM rewards to advance PCs. I'm not faulting TSM for it, they simply have a core group that differed from my own as to how best to handle this. A merger without addressing the XP issue would have led to players visitng my PW to get more XP while adventuring and then visit TSM to get XP while sitting around a tavern chatting about the adventure they'd just finished.

Our economies and general character advancement were on par otherwise. Our PWs border each other nicely. The few areas of overlap could easilly be negotiated. Both PWs use CEP 2.3 though my own uses a few others as well. This wouldn't hinder a merger much as only players wishing to visit mine would need the extra haks. (you can check before allowing them to portal and players without the right haks would simply see a message stating they are missing them) We shared more similarities than differences, but still ... the differences were wide gaps to be bridged with no easy solutions. While I never haved completely ruled out a merger with them or others, those same three numbered concerns would cover most PWs I'd consider a merger with.

Anyhow, hope this sheds some light for folks. My advice? Agree on 1 thru 3 above before you even make your first areas, then the rest is cake. Merging existing PWs is just too hard otherwise.

[TSMDude]

kalbaern wrote...


1 - Hosting: TSM's original desire was to host all of the modules that would be linked. While this makes maintaining a common server vault less of an issue, it was also something I was personally wary of. My own PW has a dedicated server already and having to rely on someone else who at the time was having issues keeping theirs up just wasn't comforting. (Though that seems less of an issue nowadays)

Yes We did have some hosting issues thankfully those are done with. We were at one time trying to be nice and hosting both our world and the old module we allowed the old Staff to have. Honestly now-a-days with VNC I think we would be cool with anyone hosting part of the module and we hosting part of the module. Heck dont even care who holds the Server Vault.

kalbaern wrote...
2 - Rules: Rules were a big issue too. My own PW uses fairly strict rules on classes and builds. Stricter than TSMs own. We also don't allow anything but standard races as characters and TSM was adding subraces. Since we wouldn't consider allowing "their" subraces to visit "our" PW, that hinders alot of possibilities. Rules regarding multiclassing, prestige class requirements and deities I think we could have came to aggreements on, but "no subraces" was something I was firm on.

Actually i think we both are about the same strict on Character classes we just go about a different way of doing them.  But yes Sub Races is something I do like when done right and seeing how Shayan's Sub Race has been done has changed my mind on it and we finally allowed them. You should see the script Luckbringer wrote as well. It has helped alot and then we used the Krits deity system to further limit some things to bring it in par with canon. (i.e.Female drow clerics for loth ONLY no males type thing)

kalbaern wrote...
3 - Mechanics and Systems: Both of our PWs have modified spells, custom resting and foraging systems and crafting. Compromises here would've also been possible. XP though a big issue. Well, not XP gained, but how it's gained. TSM has a timed XP system that provides players with the lions share of XP gained IG. Ours does not. We instead use XP gained from quests, combat, foraging and fishing along with DM rewards to advance PCs. I'm not faulting TSM for it, they simply have a core group that differed from my own as to how best to handle this. A merger without addressing the XP issue would have led to players visitng my PW to get more XP while adventuring and then visit TSM to get XP while sitting around a tavern chatting about the adventure they'd just finished.

 Once you see the timed in action you would have dug it. We tamed it back more and now it is just a small bonus. It really helps PCs like Darkharp more than anything else and has given rise to several intresting dynamics.

kalbaern wrote...
Our economies and general character advancement were on par otherwise. Our PWs border each other nicely. The few areas of overlap could easilly be negotiated. Both PWs use CEP 2.3 though my own uses a few others as well. This wouldn't hinder a merger much as only players wishing to visit mine would need the extra haks. (you can check before allowing them to portal and players without the right haks would simply see a message stating they are missing them) We shared more similarities than differences, but still ... the differences were wide gaps to be bridged with no easy solutions. While I never haved completely ruled out a merger with them or others, those same three numbered concerns would cover most PWs I'd consider a merger with.

We have had 2 other servers talk to us btw besides you now which could with some skill and talking we could make it from Amn all the way to Silver Marches now.

And to be honest sittign around and discussing it would make others intrested. When you think about it, knowing that you could travel basically half of Fauren then players would not balk so much at dling haks.

[Eagles Talon]

Another 2 cents....



I don't know how many of you are up on the NWN3 discussions. I have read some and am by no means fully knowledgeable on what they are planning. But from what I have read, they are planning something like WoW with some custom community content available as well. I'm guessing it will be pay-to-play, though I have not seen that in print yet. They are planning on DM tools, Toolset etc, but only to add to their existing world, not make independent worlds. Not so sure how they are going to pull that off. This is I believe planned for release next year. This will put another nail in the NWN1 coffin if what I believe is slated to happen does happen.



Mergers of worlds - or more desired - connections of worlds under a combined server vault, does have it's allure. If all the other issues can be resolved, it's a fine project. But is there time to pull it off? Is the amount of organization and work away from our own worlds worth it? I don't have the answers. Only more questions I guess. Always willing to listen, but I, as have others, have been "screwed over" before and will be slow to move.

[ehye_khandee]

I think that the 'roll your own' (adventures) nature of both NWN and D&D are a vital aspect as regards the longevity and popularity of both games. Being limited to making content that adds on to NWN3's own megaworld is not as appealing to me as having total control of my own mini-universe. I have always enjoyed adding flourishes and details, especially scripting them too, which helps set my world apart from others.

If NWN3 is pay to play, then I'm out (disabled and with fixed income) so my choice between the two would hinge upon that. Knowing how massively gutted the economy in general has become (oh, yeah, RL intruding on my fantasy again) I think that making a pay-to-play game would be less likely to succeed than otherwise. Then again, I'm a fossil, having been in the games industry for 30 odd years, so perhaps I'm missing something here.

I do agree that we are loosing some players, it is bound to happen. I would like to encourage you all to help cure it; go buy copies of the NWN game while it is available and gift them to your gaming friends - introduce them to our worlds. I think we (community) can stand tall on the merits of what we have built, and what we will yet build.



Be well. Game on.

GM_ODA

66.232.100.90 cep2.1+, nwn1.69 & both expansions

aldohral.forumotion.com

[Darkfire_Avlis]

Eagles Talon wrote...

Another 2 cents....

I don't know how many of you are up on the NWN3 discussions. I have read some and am by no means fully knowledgeable on what they are planning. But from what I have read, they are planning something like WoW with some custom community content available as well. I'm guessing it will be pay-to-play, though I have not seen that in print yet. They are planning on DM tools, Toolset etc, but only to add to their existing world, not make independent worlds. Not so sure how they are going to pull that off. This is I believe planned for release next year. This will put another nail in the NWN1 coffin if what I believe is slated to happen does happen.

Mergers of worlds - or more desired - connections of worlds under a combined server vault, does have it's allure. If all the other issues can be resolved, it's a fine project. But is there time to pull it off? Is the amount of organization and work away from our own worlds worth it? I don't have the answers. Only more questions I guess. Always willing to listen, but I, as have others, have been "screwed over" before and will be slow to move.

I am not a leader of any of the current CoPaP worlds, so unfortunately I can't help you too much. When CoPaP originally started though, there was definitely some bad results and conflicts from the world leaders which ended ugly. I don't want to portray it as something perfect that will just instantly happen with flawless results. BUT! That was a long time ago, when NWN was still young and CoPaP (and the individual servers) were still trying to establish themselves, get their own teams and worlds consistent, trust worthy, etc. It is not just the people wanting to join a connected system (using CoPaP as an example, but the same would hold true for other places), but also the people who are already connected. Everyone has something at stake.

Now though, a lot more experience is had by the servers in CoPaP, and the entire NWN community as a whole. Better results are a lot more likely to happen now then they were back then, at least in my opinion.

[TSMDude]

With people talking again maybe these idiot griefers might have helped us start communicating more and leaning toward a one central hub for all of the same types of servers to coexist.

Like Forgotten realms Role Playing Servers all using the same centeral server vault.
or
Action Servers doing the same.

All of us could double to triple our players experiences and maybe even breathe even more life into this Ancient Game we all love....