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Energy drain is amazing


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#26
Besetment

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If you tag 2x enemies with Energy Drain do you get double the amount of shields too?

#27
Athenau

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Unlike Overload, which retains some use against stuff that isn't synth or shielded, albeit minor, ED doesn't have any affect whatsoever. So yeah, best to respec out on those missions.

Does anyone actually use overload for the weapon overheat? Seems like a waste of a cooldown to me.

In practice ED and overload are equally useless against non-synthetic, non-shielded enemies. But that's okay, because ED is really, really, good when you can use it.

Modifié par Athenau, 24 août 2010 - 10:22 .


#28
Bozorgmehr

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Eric ****nan wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Combine it with Tech Armor to faceroll Overlord.


Who needs Tech Armor anyway? Asari Commando Shepard - Project Overlord :devil:


Nice video! I'm glad you guys are finding Energy Drain useful. I hadn't seen much mention of it on the boards.


Thanks Eric, I love ED on Geth missions :)

Besetment wrote...

If you tag 2x enemies with Energy Drain do you get double the amount of shields too?


Yes it does. If you use Area Drain and it hits 2 or more enemies the draining (and recharging your shield) multiply too. This is very useful on missions encountering many synthetic enemies (like the Geth).

Athenau wrote...

Does anyone actually use overload for the weapon overheat? Seems like a waste of a cooldown to me.

In practice ED and overload are equally useless against non-synthetic, non-shielded enemies. But that's okay, because ED is really, really, good when you can use it.


I only use Overload to overheat enemy flamethrowers - lvl 1 will do just fine :D

Anti-shield powers are very useful throughout ME2, but yes there are a couple of (Collector) missions where they are pretty useless, but that' what Retraining Powers is for.

#29
Homebound

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Eric ****nan wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Combine it with Tech Armor to faceroll Overlord.


Who needs Tech Armor anyway? Asari Commando Shepard - Project Overlord :devil:


Nice video! I'm glad you guys are finding Energy Drain useful. I hadn't seen much mention of it on the boards.


2:30 that revenant is GIGANTIC!

#30
JaegerBane

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Athenau wrote...

Unlike Overload, which retains some use against stuff that isn't synth or shielded, albeit minor, ED doesn't have any affect whatsoever. So yeah, best to respec out on those missions.

Does anyone actually use overload for the weapon overheat? Seems like a waste of a cooldown to me.

In practice ED and overload are equally useless against non-synthetic, non-shielded enemies. But that's okay, because ED is really, really, good when you can use it.


I agree, in practice Overload is of little use on non synth/shielded enemies - it's really only got the fact that it hits instantly and semi-crowd controls in it's favour.

The question, however, was whether ED served any purpose on things like Collector missions (and by extension, is a respec in order). Overload still at least detonates blood pack pyros.

#31
Mr_Raider

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The question, however, was whether ED served any purpose on things like Collector missions (and by extension, is a respec in order). Overload still at least detonates blood pack pyros.


Sentinels still have warp in their arsenal, so they aren't useless against collectors.

#32
JaegerBane

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Mr_Raider wrote...

The question, however, was whether ED served any purpose on things like Collector missions (and by extension, is a respec in order). Overload still at least detonates blood pack pyros.


Sentinels still have warp in their arsenal, so they aren't useless against collectors.


Did I say they were useless?

#33
Bozorgmehr

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JaegerBane wrote...

Mr_Raider wrote...

The question, however, was whether ED served any purpose on things like Collector missions (and by extension, is a respec in order). Overload still at least detonates blood pack pyros.


Sentinels still have warp in their arsenal, so they aren't useless against collectors.


Did I say they were useless?


No, you did say ED is useless on Collector Missions and you're right - it is useless.

Overload is of little use (Collector missions), but it can be used to overheat weapons and to detonate explosive containers with increased force, but that's about it - never really worth the cooldown; there are much better options available.

#34
pedal2metal

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Well, in my testing, ED is even better than what is stated. Note, I do not have the 5/17/2010 patch installed. I have Heavy ED & playing on Insanity. Note, while the power appears Orange (unusable) if you bring up the power wheel when pointing to something other than a shield (or unprotected mech), I have found you can still activate it anyhow (either by power wheel or using the mapped button). I just use the mapped button on my 360 controller for convenience mostly. Works like a charm.

1. ED will reduce armor on Loki/Fenric mechs. Note, I haven't tried on YMIR mechs.
UPDATE:  Confirmed.  Takes down shields, armor, & health on Loki/Fenric mechs.  However it will only increase your shields/shield max if used against shields/unprotected mechs.  As stated above, it only needs 1 pt of shield/health to provide the full benefit so if you take out mostly armor but barely dip into health, you'll get the shield regen/shield max bonus.  Nice!

2. It appeared to reduce Barriers on Vanguards (have yet to test on Collectors) in Illium.
UPDATE:  Confirmed.  It definitely takes down barriers as well on Vanguards BUT it does NOT increase your shields or your shield max.

In any case, if it affects barriers reliably (collectors/Praetorians) as well as all mech defenses, then it's one of the most flexible powers available & can cover any class weaknesses. I'm using it on my adept right now & basically, the Adept can kill everything by itself all the time with it. I'm close to putting it in the same class as Reave.  For an Adept, I think this power is arguably the best choice as it covers the class weakness & provided additional armor(mechs)/barrier stripping in addition to warp.

Has anyone else tried this/seen this?  Does pre-patch or post-patch make a difference?  I know the game states that all powers work against shield, armor, & barriers.  It just happens that ED is quite effective against all 3 although to somewhat varying degrees but better than just about anything else as far as I can tell.
UPDATE:  Well Singularity affects armor/health, Incinerate affects shields, etc... as well so it appears it's just the natural result of the statement the game makes about all powers affecting shields, barriers, armor (i.e.:  all defenses).

Energy Drain is a viable alternative to Reave imo.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Modifié par pedal2metal, 31 août 2010 - 07:40 .


#35
termokanden

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It shouldn't come as a surprise that Energy Drain reduces armor and barriers as well. All powers are meant to make a small dent in defenses regardless of type. But if used against the wrong type, the damage will be low.



In other words, this is not something special about Energy Drain, and you'd still be better off using an appropriate power for other defenses than shields.

#36
Mr_Raider

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This finding shows ED is the mirror of reave. Reave will strip armor off anything synthetic or organic, shields off of organics, but won't work on shielded synthetics.



I suggest retesting with no tech upgrades, this will tell you if the effect on barriers and organics is signficant or much weaker.

#37
pedal2metal

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The effect on mech armor is significant. 1 shot on Loki/Fenric would drain roughly 66-75% of the armor. 2nd shot would get to health, thus providing the shield benefit. I believe I had 3 tech damage upgrades. So ED is definitely the "anti-mech" power of choice, against all defense types.  Insanity difficulty.

The effect on barriers for organics is measurably smaller. For an Insanity Vanguard, it took several shots (~7 or so) to fully strip the barriers. So definitely significantly less effective against barriers. Heavy warp was better but it would take 2-3 shots of maxed heavy warp to strip the same barriers. So it's at least 50%+ less effective than warp for example. But it works tremendously on shields or mechs (all defenses).

The nice thing about ED is that it's "instant cast" only requiring some "line of sight" exposure to the enemy. As a result, it has 100% hit rate when cast properly vs. warp/etc... where if the guy jumps back into cover during the travel time, it often misses/hits cover instead.

I used to think folks who took ED for an Infiltrator were really sacrificing if there weren't any shielded enemies as it wouldn't affect barriers at all. With the knowledge that it can still impact barriers (albeit weakly), it's less of a sacrifice/trade-off since the Infiltrator gets some additional tech cooldown as well. It's definitely the "anti-mech"/"anti-shield" power so it has a lot of utility in almost every mission except strictly Collector missions.  I still prefer AP/Warp ammo for Infiltrator but this makes me want to try w/ED & using Garrus as constant squadmate (for AP ammo, 50%) to see how it works to potentially increase survivability after de-cloaking by boosting the shield prior to cloaking.  The nice thing about Ammo powers is that they stay on even when your squadmate dies so it's essentially another power to your character w/o having to take a slot.  I'm guessing Miranda's passive Cerberus Leadership bonus works the same way.

I'm at the point now that ED/Reave should be the typical bonus power choices for almost every class except for Engineer who can absolutely control the battlefield like no other class with Drone/AI Hacking/Dominate (bonus) if desired. Still an Engineer w/ED, will be quite formidable since the Drone pretty much shuts down groups of any kind through distraction, the attack drone can impact 40 pts barriers + % bonus/3 seconds, & tech cooldowns are nice for Engineer allowing more frequent casting. Sentinel w/ED is probably ridiculuous (haven't tried it but can imagine with the 35% cooldown bonus + tech armor), although I prefer Reave w/my Sentinel to balance out Overshield.  With the Adept, it's a match made in heaven as it covers the class weakness & allows the Adept to never use Ammo, ever, as it now has something for every defense, every type of enemy.  Definitely handy!

In short, ED should be on the short list for top bonus powers right alongside Reave imo. As stated by Mr_Raider, it's essentially the mirror of Reave for mechs/shields.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Modifié par pedal2metal, 31 août 2010 - 03:35 .


#38
termokanden

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Wouldn't one Incinerate destroy that mech armor though?



No doubt Energy Drain is very good, but there are plenty of other equally viable choices for bonus powers.

#39
pedal2metal

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Possibly but Adepts don't have incinerate which is what I was playing with. Using ED for an Adept gives it the class weakness cover against shields AND finding out that it works just as well for any defense on mechs was like icing on the cake. Seeing it has some utility against barriers was nice too. I had no idea that ED was so good & universal in it's application.  Against mechs, I'd say ED is better overall as it can deal with all defenses, does excellent damage in all cases to mechs, & boosts your shields if used against shield/health on mechs.

Incinerate is an excellent power but I usually don't take Mordin along (he's "too narrow" an NPC for me. I almost always take Zaeed/Miranda or at least 1 of these 2) & unfortunately my Infiltrator build has done everything in the game so there's nothing left to do and/or test out stuff with w/o restoring which I hate doing. This is one instance where I wish we had a Pinnacle Station type DLC so I could at least keep testing things out even after I finished the game vs. either having to try a New Game+ (which isn't implemented nearly as well as ME1 though I'm grateful they included it since it wasn't going to be originally) or wait for the next DLC (Lair of the Shadow Broker). I think everyone has beaten BioWare up so much for "crappy story" DLC that they've missed the utility of having some "repetitive combat mission" DLC which allows you to test builds & experiment w/powers or just "shoot stuff" even after you've finished the game.

I really wish BioWare would add a DLC like Pinnacle Station (combat simulator) just for that purpose. Given you got every enemy type thrown at you in Pinnacle Station from a variety of locales, it would be perfect for those times where you simply want to play a few minutes "shooting stuff" or where you wanted to do some controlled testing.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Modifié par pedal2metal, 31 août 2010 - 05:19 .


#40
termokanden

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Warp actually does bonus damage against armor. Anyway, I agree that Energy Drain is an interesting choice for an adept, since this gives them something against all types of defenses.

#41
pedal2metal

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Yes, Warp does bonus damage but not enough to take it off in 1 hit usually like Incinerate (Incininerate has highest anti-armor bonus for any power @2.4x). The "instant cast" feature of ED isn't meaningless either.  It can take 1-2 seconds for travel of projectile powers (Warp, Incinerate) which in Insanity, matters.  Warp typically still requires 2 hits so why not use ED & get some extra shield as a result? I have found my Adept w/ED is essentially unkillable (except when I'm stupid) against all comers. Normally mechs or shielded enemies are an issue for Adepts but with ED, they simply become easy fodder for ED/Singularity/Warp or ED/Singularity/Weapon combos. If you like using weapons w/Adept (I don't typically), you can become extremely destructive w/Mattock AR or Viper SR especially if combined w/singularity. In a pure mech environment (Overlord), it becomes ridiculuous. You can even use the shotgun successfully w/ED/Singularity (+100% damage bonus when ragdolled). It really gives the Adept a wide range of playstyles you can try which is pretty cool.  I used to not enjoy Adept too much & had to worry about who I brought along to round things out.  With ED, that's all gone.  I can bring whoever I like & do whatever I want as the Adept w/ED can deal with it all.  Really fun!

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Modifié par pedal2metal, 31 août 2010 - 06:03 .


#42
sinosleep

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Warp usually requires more than one hit against what and at what level? Cause I've been one shotting barriers and armor on insanity for quite some time now with warp/reave/incinerate at the same rate.

#43
termokanden

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Agreed, properly upgraded warp can one-shot armor and barriers for sure.

As for the instant-cast, it's not always a good thing. I find the aiming around corners to be useful in more than a few places.

Modifié par termokanden, 31 août 2010 - 08:55 .


#44
pedal2metal

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Well, I'm not using the Dragon Armor which adds +15%. I usually have a small sliver of armor left over so that +15% would probably put me over the top. Also that's a full armor w/o any additional powers/shooting by allies. With additional powers/guns acting, it's less of an issue but I usually solo by putting my squad in some worthless place way-back (or getting them killed early) & then play the mission.



I agree you want to use the right tool for the job so I use all Adept powers. ED just really rounds out the package to create an almost Sentinel-like survivability. W/o having to be super-human on the buttons like some of those videos I've seen by sinosleep... Crazy! I play much more relaxed playstyle usually. :)



best regards,

Pedal2Metal

#45
Bozorgmehr

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pedal2metal wrote...

Well, I'm not using the Dragon Armor which adds +15%. I usually have a small sliver of armor left over so that +15% would probably put me over the top. Also that's a full armor w/o any additional powers/shooting by allies. With additional powers/guns acting, it's less of an issue but I usually solo by putting my squad in some worthless place way-back (or getting them killed early) & then play the mission.


You don't need Dragon Armor to strip defenses. Just make sure to pick up biotic and tech upgrades whenever they become available and you (and your squadmates) can easily strip 'normal' enemy defenses. You don't need the Heavy version either; Unstable Warp will strip armor (Vorcha, LOKI, Husks etc) and barriers (Collector Drones); Area Drain and Area Overload will do the same to shielded enemies.

I agree you want to use the right tool for the job so I use all Adept powers. ED just really rounds out the package to create an almost Sentinel-like survivability. W/o having to be super-human on the buttons like some of those videos I've seen by sinosleep... Crazy! I play much more relaxed playstyle usually. :)

best regards,
Pedal2Metal


ED is extremely powerful on Geth missions, but a lot less effective on other missions (even the ones fighting lots of shielded enemies). If you're looking for survivability take (Heavy) Barrier - my favourite bonus power for the Adept. It looks cool, works instantly and allows some crazy moves. Here's my most recent Adept video:

www.youtube.com/watch

Check my sig for more Adept vids ;)

#46
pedal2metal

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Yeah, I should have mentioned I don't have all the upgrades yet. I tried against last night after getting another upgrade & yep, warp & reave takes down armor Fenris/Loki in 1 shot.



I don't like the Area powers in this game. I find they rarely get the opportunity to use that effect with much reliability. In that case, I prefer guaranteed damage against 1 enemy as that's 100% reliable. I do favor some area powers though such as pull field, concussive shot, shockwave. I figure the best way to turn the tide is to kill enemies, not injure them. Just my preference. I've tried them both & find area effects generally suck in this game as compared to like a game like DAO.



Yeah, I've seen your videos w/Barrier. Simply incredible! I don't like barrier much myself as I think it has a 12s cooldown. If it was 6s, it would be better imo. I play on 360 which I find is a little more difficult to do all the simultaneous "hot-key"/mouse stuff that all you guys do on the PC. I'm not a "twitch" guy myself. I like methodical approaches vs. "diving in" but I do find that the Adept can do some incredible things & has quite a bit of playstyle variety. I'm no expert at this game but I do play only Insanity & have done so with every class. I can say the more I play, the more appreciation I develop for the class distinctions & balancing BioWare has put into the game. Every class can provide a really unique experience.



ED is excellent against mechs. It works well against shielded enemies too. Most missions have mechs so I find ED works most of the time. But for Collector missions, not so much. I prefer Reave in those cases.



I just don't like any powers which have cooldowns >6s so while I've tried them, I won't choose them regularly. That being said, I have really enjoyed your videos! :)



best regards,

Pedal2Metal

#47
Athenau

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Heavy barrier seems redundant on any mission with shields or synthetics. Energy drain will give you a bigger boost to your shields on a shorter cooldown, and there should be more than enough enemies around to keep it refreshed.

#48
pedal2metal

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ED isn't "pure" though for Adepts which while I obviously don't let that stop me, it is always something to consider. Barrier is a "pure" choice so that's kind of nice in that vein. I'll probably try the Barrier approach at some point just to try a "pure" run. I do find a certain sense of satisfaction in playing a class "purely" like Barrier w/Adept (instead of ED), or Neural Shock w/Engineer (instead of Dominate), etc....  However, Reave & Dominate are both fair game for Adepts, even in a "pure" run.  Reave is so good that it's hard to ever go wrong using Reave.  Dominate gives Adepts some battlefield distraction capability that would be handy at times.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Modifié par pedal2metal, 01 septembre 2010 - 04:22 .


#49
Bozorgmehr

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Barrier has an 12 s cooldown but you can get it down to around 9 s with Adept passive power (lvl 4) and reduce it to less than 7 s after researching cd reduction upgrade (right after Horizon). Heavy Barrier provides a 100% shield increase (better protection than Assault Armor) sucking up huge amounts of damage before it goes down (you can take 2 'heavy' attacks (rockets, warp, incinerate etc) that normally would destroy Shep's shield; only Pyros and Scions take it down with one attack) plus you can activate it before battle so it doesn't interfere with the ability to use other powers; and it always works - unlike medkits. Barrier is a much more effective survival tool than ED; which can only compete and beat Barrier on Geth missions coz ED works on synthetic's health too.

#50
Athenau

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Again, energy drain buffs your shields more than heavy barrier. Heavy barrier's 100% equates to 250 shields. Heavy drain with 5 upgrades gets you 300, and that can be buffed even further with +% power damage from skills and gear. And that boost doesn't go away when you shields go down. If you want you can drain something every 25 seconds and benefit from a huge passive buff to shields while using your cooldowns on something else.