108 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

Athenau wrote...
I've tried it with GSB, which is essentially the same skill with a weapon damage boost and sans the instant cast, so unless you're saying that's magically going to change the argument (hint, it won't), you'd be wrong again.

I can sort of see where you're coming from. That video did show, to a certain extent, how ED could be used effectively on a soldier to boost his toughness - but I'm not sure there were many situations where the presence of ED meant the difference between success and failure. A lot of the times you used ED where ultimately another AR or simply hiding behind cover for a sec would have accomplished more kills (particularly 1:15 where you zap a mech and then squander the insta-recovered shield by ducking behind cover again and selecting a new weapon).

That said, I wouldn't simply base the argument on the idea that GSB and Barrier are 'essentially the same'. The difference of 25% shields and instacast do not sound much on paper, but in agressive gameplay the difference is quite noticable - I would suggest you try it out and record the results first before simply making an assumption and expecting it to be taken as evidence for your point.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 04 septembre 2010 - 08:52 .

[numotsbane]

I think the main point of difference between the two, which is most prevalent on a soldier, is that you can use your class talent 4ish seconds after ED, but its more like 10ish seconds later for barrier. the way the soldier plays, I see that being the biggest hurdle for defensive powers.

On another class, like the adept, I see the difference being less of an issue. Cooldown reductions and the like make a big difference.

[Athenau]

JaegerBane:

At 1:15 I could have taken another shot with the GPS (like I said, not a perfect run at all) instead of immediately switching weapons. But I can't really think of a time where another AR would have netted me more kills. With the GPS a mech is two shots to kill (one in adrenaline rush, one without) same as with ED, it doesn't actually save me time. Other than that I pretty much used ED either right before or while I advanced, so the opportunity cost was essentially nil.
Keep in mind what you're not seeing--I'm running around with ~650 shields the whole fight thanks to drain. It's very easy to keep that refresh even if you use adrenaline rush 90% of the time.

That said, I wouldn't simply base the argument on the idea that GSB and Barrier are 'essentially the same'. The difference of 25% shields and instacast do not sound much on paper, but in agressive gameplay the difference is quite noticable - I would suggest you try it out and record the results first before simply making an assumption and expecting it to be taken as evidence for your point.

In that save I don't have the biotic cooldown upgrade so it wouldn't be a fair comparison. But I'm very skeptical that 25% is going to change the fundamental nature of the skill given how quickly my 116% boosted shields (from ED) go down. If I have time I'll give it a try, but I don't see the point in making a vid to prove a negative since the inevitable counterargument is going to be that I should have played better while using barrier.

Numotsbane: 

I think the main point of difference between the two, which is most prevalent on a soldier, is that you can use your class talent 4ish seconds after ED, but its more like 10ish seconds later for barrier. the way the soldier plays, I see that being the biggest hurdle for defensive powers.

Yes, exactly.  If you're moving around and switching weapons, generally you can cover ED's cooldown with other stuff and be ready to rush (if needed) by the time it's over.  That is almost never the case with the 9.6 sec cooldown of barrier and GSB, there's always a lot of forced dead time while it ticks.

Modifié par Athenau, 04 septembre 2010 - 10:58 .

[vigna]

Arhka wrote...

numotsbane wrote...

I'm glad. I did a poll on respecing a while back and it suggested that a fairly large number of people didn't respec much at all.
I think this would have a pretty big impact on bonus power choice; and its not particularly in favour of ED. I think this is why such a large number of people choose ammo powers, even though they're not usually the best option.
Would we still choose ED if we couldn't change it for missions like the collector ship and the suicide mission? hmm.

I would if Husks still counted as synthetic.

ED doesn't affect Husks does it? Is Reave the best bonus power for the IFF mission?  I always have the hardest time defeating that onslaught of husks at the  core (hardest part of the game IMO).

[sinosleep]

vigna wrote...

Arhka wrote...

numotsbane wrote...

I'm glad. I did a poll on respecing a while back and it suggested that a fairly large number of people didn't respec much at all.
I think this would have a pretty big impact on bonus power choice; and its not particularly in favour of ED. I think this is why such a large number of people choose ammo powers, even though they're not usually the best option.
Would we still choose ED if we couldn't change it for missions like the collector ship and the suicide mission? hmm.

I would if Husks still counted as synthetic.

ED doesn't affect Husks does it? Is Reave the best bonus power for the IFF mission?  I always have the hardest time defeating that onslaught of husks at the  core (hardest part of the game IMO).

There are several abilities that can one shot husks, pull, throw, cryo blast, cryo ammo, singularity, concussive shot, basically anything that either freezes them or knocks them off their feet will net an instankill. I find shooting off their armor (it's not much) and going with any of the mentioned methods as the easiest way of deal with husks. So for a soldier, put at least 1 point in cryo ammo, slap it on what ever handcannon or shotgun your are using (they will one shot armor off) and go to town. Bring along a squadmate with pull/throw/reave/incineration blast etc and husks are cake.

[numotsbane]

I find the easiest way to get through the reaper-core mission is just to keep running in a circle, shooting and spamming whatever effective power you have at your disposal (sinosleep outlined a few above). Don't be afraid to just turn tail and sprint off for a bit - keep your distance and keep from getting surrounded.

even if it does look a bit silly...

[vigna]

Oooh, thank you Sinosleep. Much appreciated advice.

[Arhka]

numotsbane wrote...

I find the easiest way to get through the reaper-core mission is just to keep running in a circle, shooting and spamming whatever effective power you have at your disposal (sinosleep outlined a few above). Don't be afraid to just turn tail and sprint off for a bit - keep your distance and keep from getting surrounded.
even if it does look a bit silly...

Exactly. Especially when you get  Scion spawn down a narrow walkway.

[OniGanon]

Athenau wrote...
Apologies in advance for the poop quality, youtube reencoded it for some reason.

Looks fine to me.

If you didnt already know... Youtube videos look horrifyingly bad for about an hour after they are first uploaded.

[fegede]

vigna wrote...

ED doesn't affect Husks does it? Is Reave the best bonus power for the IFF mission?  I always have the hardest time defeating that onslaught of husks at the  core (hardest part of the game IMO).

All thoses tips above work great. Some class specific powers like singularity and tech armor can also help you there depending on you class. If you feel a bit lazy, bring the cain and nuke that damn reaper core. Mission done.

[RGFrog]

Just started a new Adept run with ED. I've found myself spamming it more than I expected. I'd say that I've used it 75% more than Singularity.



I've just finished Horizon and I think it was most helpful on Kasumi's mission. But I don't remember really touching it more than 3 times during Horizon

[numotsbane]

Wow, that much? how have you been using it? I generally found less use than ED than for singularity over the whole game (shield missions maybe not). My general process was singularity, 3s cooldown with either shooting/ ED drain to finish shields, miranda warpsplosion.

or miranda overload, my warp.

ED also as a buff when moving from cover-to cover. In fact I often used it more as defensive power than an offensive power.

[Besetment]

Its very good as an offensive power too. I've been using it on an Infiltrator and for missions with even a smattering of blue shields its pretty amazing. Next mission I'll make a video of offensive ED in action. You can use it to play super aggressive in a way thats stupid without it.

[Mr_Raider]

sinosleep wrote...


There are several abilities that can one shot husks, pull, throw, cryo blast, cryo ammo, singularity, concussive shot, basically anything that either freezes them or knocks them off their feet will net an instankill. I find shooting off their armor (it's not much) and going with any of the mentioned methods as the easiest way of deal with husks. So for a soldier, put at least 1 point in cryo ammo, slap it on what ever handcannon or shotgun your are using (they will one shot armor off) and go to town. Bring along a squadmate with pull/throw/reave/incineration blast etc and husks are cake.

Any mind control will kill them too like neural shock and dominate.

[Valentyna]

Hmm. I never knew it boosted yourshiields aove their maximum. Does it work against Barriers too (I.E. Collectors and most of the eclipse you fight on Ilium), or just real, artificial type shields?

[RGFrog]

numotsbane wrote...

Wow, that much? how have you been using it? I generally found less use than ED than for singularity over the whole game (shield missions maybe not). My general process was singularity, 3s cooldown with either shooting/ ED drain to finish shields, miranda warpsplosion.
or miranda overload, my warp.
ED also as a buff when moving from cover-to cover. In fact I often used it more as defensive power than an offensive power.

Yeah, up to Horrizon, pretty much everyone has shields on Insanity. So, I spam it. I tried it a couple times agains barriers, and I could swear it filled up my barrier as a result. It didn't give me the bonus, but I watched the barrier bar go full, which was about 300 with the upgrades and armor I had at the time.

Don't quote me on that, as it's not something I've gone back and confirmed and could have been just timing of the cast with the normal shield/barrier regen. I guess I should go test it.

edit: Just tested, must have been the timing. It takes a good chunk out of a collector's barrier, but it did nothing for my shep So, no where nearly as useful as Reave against Barriers, but if like me and you forget to swap out on Normandy, it's not totally useless

Modifié par RGFrog, 06 septembre 2010 - 01:18 .

[Valentyna]

When you used it on them, RGFrog, did it lower _their_ barriers? If not, then I would guess it was probably a coincidence.



If you thinka bout it logically, it really should - whether generated by an artificial device, or by your funky magic powers, they're both kinetic barriers after-all; they both work on th exact smae principal. But pesky things like logic dont seem to have affected the devs thinking when it came to Overload.

[Athenau]

Hmm. I never knew it boosted yourshiields aove their maximum. Does it work against Barriers too (I.E. Collectors and most of the eclipse you fight on Ilium), or just real, artificial type shields?

You get the refill + max buff if it damages shields or synthetic health.

It does damage armor (well, synthetic armor, I haven't tried it on organics w. armor) and barrier, but most likely without a multiplier.

[Valentyna]

If it damages barriers does it restore and buff your own protections like normal? (I wont ask about non-synthetic armor since you haven't tried, though if anyone else knows please share)

[Valentyna]

So... nobody's done too much testing no the point, I guess?

[sinosleep]

It doesn't do either. It only works on shields or synthetic health as far as the restore goes.

[Valentyna]

So mostly for Geth and blue suns then, I guess. Still, thats covers an awful LOT of the game. Thank you, Sinosleep.

[numotsbane]

Most low level eclipse grunts have shields too. its basically blood pack and collectors where its ineffective.

[Mr_Raider]

Does Ed benefit from the adept class passive cooldown bonus?

[RamsenC]

I didn't read this entire thread so this may have been mentioned, but you can put shield drain on any class and turn it into a Warp Explosion initiator. Just bring a Warper (Miranda) and a Puller (Jacob/Jack). You do need a a couple levels of tech power damage, but that's not really a problem.

I make use of it here: 

Modifié par RamsenC, 06 septembre 2010 - 04:16 .