47 réponses à ce sujet

[jaxsbudgie]

Faldorn is in fact Isaea Roenall who is actually Lady Delcia, who in turn is none other than Nalia.

[Flamedance]

Faldorn? What makes you think Faldorn is behind it all? For starters: what motive could she have?

[jaxsbudgie]

Pffff I'm drawing at straws really, her need to claim back the forest ... and there's a Troll mound near her druid grove .... meh.



Was looking through what the NPCs say in BG1 and there's an intersecting one where she says to Jaheira:

"One day woman, you and I will settle our differences."

Poor Faldorn.

[Shadow_Leech07]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

With Mr Roenall coming to the castle telling the trolls to get out?
That just might work, but don't you think there are a few too many loose ends around, who might see him talking to the trolls (or at least that they leave as he arrives)?
After all, there are a number of survivors.

He can put on a show of force. He's obviously not going to walk up to them and say "Begone!" In any case the survivors were few and decreasing. Most of the peasants were getting killed when charname entered, basically you have Glacias(charmed), Lady Delcia and her guard, and Daleson. All the other guards were outside(maybe they ran out there out of fear? Who knows). Trolls would set up shop and those guards outside would eventually abandon altogether, they weren't getting paid and laying seige to a castle  filled with trolls is not very promising without help.

I'm not implying anything. The smuggling business is canon

How so? You mean Isaea's dealings in the slave trade? He still left a paper trail there.

She'd have to break into his house though to acquire proof, which is something that Isaea clearly doesn't anticipate (also canon).

Well that was a different circumstance. Using the trolls fooled Nalia even, and she did not even consider the Roenalls responsible even after charname defeated the trolls. But if the Roenalls had used assasination? We can't anticipate what her actions would be but we can attempt to think of what Isaea thinks. He knows Nalia. And first of all,  he'll be thinking that she's a thief. She must have some skill breaking and entering. When he(Isaea) confronts charname and kidnaps Nalia, he's under the impression that Nalia herself has no reason to suspect him because at her father's funeral, she did not give any impression. He only acted after he thought about it some more.

Slyx wrote ...Don't forget that the Umberhulks tunneled their way into the dungeon
area from underground, so perhaps the trolls entered that way too (at
least the ones residing in the dungeon area: Torgal, etc), and NOT
through Lady Delcea's bedroom. The ones inside the keep perhaps went
right through the front gate? They had to have gotten inside either
through Nalia's secret passage near the Palisade, the front gate, or
through the tunnel the umber hulks created and then through Lady
Delcea's room.

This just proves it was organized. It doesn't do anything to alleviate Lady Delcia's guilt. Lord De'Arnise was a good guy according to the peasants...etc they don't stand to gain much having him disposed of. Only Daleson remained of the peasants.

In any case her actions after being saved are the primary reasons why I believe her to be the turncoat. Her initial reaction was to hurl insults at her saviors, I don't think most sane people would do that. She only recomposes herself shortly after. She abandons the De'Arnise keep entirely after the troll event. This might imply some kind of shame, notice she wasn't at her brother's funeral.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 23 août 2010 - 09:42 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
He can put on a show of force. He's obviously not going to walk up to them and say "Begone!" In any case the survivors were few and decreasing.

Didn't think of that. Yes, this might work.

I'm not implying anything. The smuggling business is canon

How so? You mean Isaea's dealings in the slave trade? He still left a paper trail there.

Smuggling in diamonds and jewelry, as shown in the document "Isaea's Financial Statements", I believe MISC8N.

Well that was a different circumstance. Using the trolls fooled Nalia even, and she did not even consider the Roenalls responsible even after charname defeated the trolls. But if the Roenalls had used assasination? We can't anticipate what her actions would be but we can attempt to think of what Isaea thinks. He knows Nalia. And first of all,  he'll be thinking that she's a thief. She must have some skill breaking and entering.

But don't you think that if anything, he'd think her lowly associates to be more likely to break into his property than a noblewoman? Nalia would also only be acting on a suspicion that he might be at fault, while <CHARNAME> has every reason to go against Isaea.

This just proves it was organized. It doesn't do anything to alleviate Lady Delcia's guilt. Lord De'Arnise was a good guy according to the peasants...etc they don't stand to gain much having him disposed of. Only Daleson remained of the peasants.

I agree, Lady Delcia's location is highly suspicious in in-game terms, but I always put it down to one of these two factors:

• Not all streets/passages are visible/available in an RPG. This is more obvious in actual cities, where you can only enter a handful of houses, but I guess it might also be true here.
• Maybe the guard escorted her to this room from somewhere else after the attack hit, because the room had all the comfort she wanted and only one opening (to his knowledge).

Her presence there is just a little too blatant IMO, making it look more like a plot hole than an actual clue (especially so since nobody comments on it).
But yes, since we're looking for clues, we should not just overlook this one.

[Chebby]

jaxsbudgie wrote...

Faldorn is in fact Isaea Roenall who is actually Lady Delcia, who in turn is none other than Nalia.

BUT WHO WAS BOO??????

[Shadow_Leech07]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Smuggling in diamonds and jewelry, as shown in the document "Isaea's Financial Statements", I believe MISC8N.

I'll take your word for it as I have not used the console in a very long time. And it does seem more likely as I don't think he'd put labor(slavery) in his financials. I think I had a mental hiccup.

But don't you think that if anything, he'd think her lowly associates to be more likely to break into his property than a noblewoman? Nalia would also only be acting on a suspicion that he might be at fault, while has every reason to go against Isaea.

We know that Nalia has a large amount of dislike for Isaea, and if her father's death pointed even remotely at him and his family, that dislike can easily tip over towards hatred. But of course this is all theorycrafting. We really can't predict someone's behavior, especially a fictitious one.

# I agree, Lady Delcia's location is highly suspicious in in-game terms, but I always put it down to one of these two factors:Not all streets/passages are visible/available in an RPG. This is more obvious in actual cities, where you can only enter a handful of houses, but I guess it might also be true here.
# Maybe the guard escorted her to this room from somewhere else after the attack hit, because the room had all the comfort she wanted and only one opening (to his knowledge).
Her presence there is just a little too blatant IMO, making it look more like a plot hole than an actual clue (especially so since nobody comments on it).
But yes, since we're looking for clues, we should not just overlook this one

In a court of law I would not be able to prove her guilt, and if that's your point then I absolutely agree with you because we do not know her motive, she only had the opportunity and the behavior. But from what I've experienced dealing with people in real life, when they make a mistake, they will not be in a very good mood and usually they will lash out intentionally at unsuspecting people. Initially one could derive her behavior as being atypical of one of nobility, but her demeanor just seems like she doesn't care about her brother(or Nalia) at all. But of course this is all opinion, and just because she doesn't care doesn't mean she can really be guilty.

And nobody mentions  it because A)As you say this was a plothole or The storyline was never really fleshed out. I doubt the story writers wanted to make a mystery out of this particular stronghold, it just appeared out of nowhere.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I guess we (I) can leave it at that.

[Shadow_Leech07]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

I guess we (I) can leave it at that.

agreed.

[zumbum]

Fantastic arguments though guys! Really enjoyed reading this!

[Seagloom]

Indeed! It was entertaining and even enlightening in areas.

[jaxsbudgie]

Chebby wrote...

jaxsbudgie wrote...

Faldorn is in fact Isaea Roenall who is actually Lady Delcia, who in turn is none other than Nalia.

BUT WHO WAS BOO??????

Boo is Dynaheir, obviously.

But back to (the rapidly closing) topic. I have a feeling that the secret door was only in Lady Delcia's room, so you HAD to come across her in order to finish the quest. The positioning of her room may have something to do with the dark history of De'Arnise Keep. And is it mentioned that the room her and her guard are in is in fact her room? And what's with the strange temple like room with the golems? Was that ever explained, I always assumed it was to protect the magical items. Bit drastic, no?

Is there anything in Near Infinity that sheds some light on this subject?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I don't think they planned that part of the map entirely through, what with that Cleric of Tempus finding his way to his room through 2 secret doors (and even closing them behind him).

[Sparky The Barbarian]

jaxsbudgie wrote...

The positioning of her room may have something to do with the dark history of De'Arnise Keep.

And doesn't Lord DeArnise keep a *very* well stocked torture chamber? IIRC Two Iron Maidens and four racks. Perhaps after going through Lady Delcia's room the rack didn't seem so bad. 

Back to the topic, Glacias is charmed and the keep has a large underground complex with two desecrated temples. (One upstairs and one in the 'cellars.')

Sounds like the perfect set up for a Vampire. 

[devSin]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
I'll take your word for it as I have not used the console in a very long time. And it does seem more likely as I don't think he'd put labor(slavery) in his financials. I think I had a mental hiccup.

You speak to Isaea's slaver contact on the Docks (Barg points you to him and lets you know that they're basically slavers when they're not busy smuggling).

The slavers are tied to the Twisted Rune (some of the hints for this still exist, but they left it all out and made the Rune and slavers stand alone with no actual purpose in the game), and I assume the Twisted Rune (an agent thereof) is the "Stronger." I'm sure the Rune loves having more agents among the nobility (and a potential stronghold for whatever nefarious purpose).

I don't believe this is a Roenal family affair. Lord Roenal was written by an amnesiac (he's such a cool guy at the funeral, and then it all goes downhill for no reason); there's no evidence he would have any desire or even the means to bargain with trolls and other monsters (such dealings are for the lower classes). Isaea is just a spoiled brat tired of waiting for his chance to sit at the head of the table. A small and evil man, an easy tool for the much greater and eviler masterminds to use as needed.

And Nalia is so stupid, Isaea himself could have tunneled into the keep dungeons and she still wouldn't have made the connection.

As for why trolls and yuan-ti and umber hulks working together, I'm sure it's primarily because that's all they could get the art for.

[jaxsbudgie]

How are the Twisted Runes and the slavers in the Temple District connected?
I've only done the Twisted Runes mission a few times, so I don't really remember much of the dialogue, I always though it was a kooky side mission, sort of like Kangaxx.
And the slavers don't really give much away do they?
Are the two connected via some lost dialogue found through Near Infinity?

Also, when Isaea attacks the Keep when you take control of it, if he did have power over the Trolls, wouldn't he send those in to fight on his behalf?
Do you think the people in the Twisted Rune wanted something to do with the Keep?
This is baffling me.

Modifié par jaxsbudgie, 25 août 2010 - 02:02 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

jaxsbudgie wrote...

Also, when Isaea attacks the Keep when you take control of it, if he did have power over the Trolls, wouldn't he send those in to fight on his behalf?
.

Well Isaea doesn't attack the keep, his father does. And you kill all the trolls so they wouldn't be there.

[jaxsbudgie]

Is there any particular reason why the people in the Guarded Compound of the Temple District have empty bottles of water?
More unfinished quests?
Were they stealing water?

[HoonDing]

Maybe the Twisted Rune wanted slaves for experiments?

Though the goal of the Twisted Rune was to control governments from behind the scenes (which they already did in Calimshan at that point); maybe they foresaw that Nalia -through her idealism- would become a member of the Council of Amn and therefore through marriage with the Rune's puppet Isaea could control her, and hence influence affairs in Amn?

I think the Twisted Rune encounter was mostly a gimmick, though... you kill Shyressa & Shangalar the Black in the game who are both members of the inner circle of the Rune, and mentioned in sourcebooks. Killing them us almost equivalent to killing Elminster.

Modifié par virumor, 28 août 2010 - 06:48 .

[Seagloom]

virumor wrote...

I think the Twisted Rune encounter was mostly a gimmick, though... you kill Shyressa & Shangalar the Black in the game who are both members of the inner circle of the Rune, and mentioned in sourcebooks. Killing them us almost equivalent to killing Elminster.

Agreed. I find it hard to take any of the canon character encounters seriously except for maybe the run-in with Jarlaxle. The last Cowled Wizard encounter throws in Zallanora; who is supposed to be possessed by an ancient epic level necromancer. As far as lore consistency goes Baldur's Gate 2 is often... not.

Modifié par Seagloom, 28 août 2010 - 06:59 .

[jaxsbudgie]

ALSO, there is a lump sum of gold in the compound on the second floor in the safe, 666 gold coins to be precise.

Devil gold, Stronger, Twisted Runes, empty bottles of water, slavers, slaves, Isaea, Nalia, Lady Delcia ...



WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL US BIOWARE?

[Shadow_Leech07]

virumor wrote...

Maybe the Twisted Rune wanted slaves for experiments?

Though the goal of the Twisted Rune was to control governments from behind the scenes (which they already did in Calimshan at that point); maybe they foresaw that Nalia -through her idealism- would become a member of the Council of Amn and therefore through marriage with the Rune's puppet Isaea could control her, and hence influence affairs in Amn?

I think the Twisted Rune encounter was mostly a gimmick, though... you kill Shyressa & Shangalar the Black in the game who are both members of the inner circle of the Rune, and mentioned in sourcebooks. Killing them us almost equivalent to killing Elminster.

I think we all have to keep in mind that Bioware wanted to acquire the rights to D&D but lost out to wizards. Baldur's Gate itself was the savior to this genre. The characters in the sourcebooks, I was surprised to read about them as well, are probably meant to be used in this fashion. And it's not like these guys can't be revived.

[jaxsbudgie]

This has probably already been mentioned, and people have already made the connection. But there are Rune Assassins in the basement docking bay of Rejiek Hidesmen's home. Plus the doorway that teleports you to the Twisted Rune room is just a stones throw away from Rejiek's home.



If only someone could get in contact with David Gaider and ask him why every unfinished quest boils down to the Twisted Rune in one way or another.