190 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow_broker]

I still like my plan the best



Fly the normandy in the center of the reaper fleet causing them to fire at it, but have joker dodge the beams so the reapers hit eachother instead



I know i'm a jeanious

[JGDD]

Shadow_broker wrote...
I know i'm a jeanious

It really shows.

[Fiery Phoenix]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
I know i'm a jeanious

It really shows.

I want to say that was intentional, because if that's not the case...

[JGDD]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
I know i'm a jeanious

It really shows.

I want to say that was intentional, because if that's not the case...

I checked. Sticking with my initial assessment.

[Shadow_broker]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
I know i'm a jeanious

It really shows.

I want to say that was intentional, because if that's not the case...

Oh tottally was intentional...
I know it's spelt Geneious

[Count Viceroy]

Shadow_broker wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
I know i'm a jeanious

It really shows.

I want to say that was intentional, because if that's not the case...

Oh tottally was intentional...
I know it's spelt Geneious

Have to give you some credit for effort.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
I know i'm a jeanious

It really shows.

I want to say that was intentional, because if that's not the case...

Oh tottally was intentional...
I know it's spelt Geneious

Have to give you some credit for effort.

For real, dude!

[JGDD]

I rest my case.

[Moiaussi]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

snip

My dear Moiaussi, you don't add anything to this question. What you do is twirling facts/ideas/argument and try to make them look invalid.
I brought up the WW2 example just as an example of what I think your argumentation looks like and now you just wrote utter nonsense.

The fact IS nuclear weaponry exists in Mass Effect, if not only for ground-bombardement. If other species than Humans do have a stockpile of them is unknown ... and non-critical to the question as nuclear weapons are easily manufactured if you have the material. With numerous colonies available, the chances for NOT having said ressources tends to near zero.
The fact IS you don't hold back weapons just because they are not the Überweapon that kills anything with a press on a flashy button. When someone shoots at you and you are cornered and all you got is stones lying around and you want to live, you don't just wait and hope the other ones dies of age, you throw stones. Afterall, you might get a lucky shot. That is instinct. Just like you want to survive.
So if any one in that galaxy has a nuke, he will use it. PERIOD. The question this thread is about is not whether we should use them as this very question just got answered. The question we are discussing here and for which you don't add constructive thoughts is how it could be of use, in what way it could damage Reapers or how we could use them as giant Space-Flashbangs.

I don't know and I don't assume you do that on purpose, all I ask is that you either constructively contribute, or leave us be.

Thanks

All that is very nice, but you still haven't explained how your marvelous solution will be so wonderful against the reapers, yet didn't seem to have any meaningful effect against the Rachni or Krogan. There was no reason to hold them back then either.

It isn't a matter of holding these weapons back, or any suggestion that they don't exist. It is a blind assumption on your part that they would be any use at all.

That you don't like my opinion does not invalidate it.

[Archereon]

fongiel24 wrote...

Dreadnought guns already hit with the force of multiple nuclear weapons - and according to the Alliance drill sergeant on the Citadel, they're capable of doing it several times a minute.

The Reapers have been routinely wiping out galactic civilization for hundreds of millions of years. I doubt "invent a bigger gun" is a new idea. The derelict Reaper proves at least one civilization was even successful yet even they were wiped out.

The galaxy is probably going to need more than just bigger guns and better bullets to survive the Reapers, hence why ME is a trilogy about a human super soldier and not a team of engineers (the real kind, not the class).

Well, the Delerlict Reaper doesn't necessarily mean that.  It could have meant that, way back in the day, the Reapers actually had enemies that were powerful enough to put up a fair fight.

Nukes wouldn't be particularly good against a Reaper.  You'd have to use our entire current arsenal to take one down.

Modifié par Archereon, 24 août 2010 - 01:00 .

[fongiel24]

The turian military has 39 dreadnoughts as of 2185. It says so in the Codex.



Nuclear weapons aren't necessarily cheap or easy to make either. Compared to ME technology they're primitive, but the materials that go into making a nuclear bomb aren't really that easy to acquire either. Mass producing nukes might not be as simple as it sounds.



Outnumbering the Reapers with swarms of cheap bombers and frigates might work, but this would require a massive building effort. Even frigates take time to build and smaller craft like fighters and bombers require the construction of large carriers, themselves expensive to construct and easy prey when t he Reapers learn to target them. Considering that the Reapers themselves are an entire race of sentient starships that have been adding to their numbers for hundreds of millions of years, it might not even be possible to outnumber them.



We should also consider that small craft like frigates also carry relatively short range weapons. The Reapers carry dreadnought-type weapons, capable of far outranging anything a frigate can wield. If the Reapers can hit from thousands of kilometres and our frigates can only engage from several hundred kilometres (even this is stretching it as the Codex mentions that frigates are "knife-fighters", closing to dozens of kilometres), our frigates will have to brave a storm of deadly Reaper-fire before they can even start shooting. From what we see of Sovereign, Reapers appear to be equipped with multiple dreadnought-sized weapons, each capable of independently targeting a separate target. We'd need to outnumber the Reapers by a huge margin in each engagement to win and that's assuming our Thanix cannons can actually take out a Reaper, even with repeated hits.

[Moiaussi]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...


Okay, ... now it's getting annoying. Did you read my post with the intent to understand it?

We/They are facing extinction! When you have weapons and are about to get eradicated, you use said weapons. That is no blind assumption, that is instinct and the only logical conclusion! And no one in here did seriously think that nukes would be the Wunderwaffe against the Reapers. Just as your favoured enigmatic Supercannon ain't one that shot the Reaper some 37000000 years ago. Didn't help them either.
As for the Rachni/Krogan Rebellions, ... who said they weren't used back then? And when is assumed that the involved species did maintain nuclear weaponry at that time if they had superiour firepower in form of Dreadnoughts? I am saying that now that those Dreadnoughts are no longer superiour weapon platforms, we shoudl switch to the cheaper, easier to produce and less ressource-costy nukes!
This thread is long since about what those nukes could be good for.
And how those nukes could be of use has been mentioned already:
-Massive Radiation that can be hazardous to Reapers or should they be shielded against said radiation used as giant flashbangs to mask manouvres/retreats to minimize casualties
-Massive Heat that could damage the outer hull/Kinetic Barrier Emitters or at least increase the heat their Heat-Management has to compensate for, limiting their battle effectiveness due to decreasing the time they can engage

I certainly do not dislike your opinion, I dislike that you keep posting the latter in a thread that is not in need of said one as it is completely out of context and I'd be glad if we let it be once and for all!

Perhaps you should spend less time getting annoyed and more time thinking about other opinions besides your own.

The concept that nukes might be of no use at all is within the context of this thread. If you started a thread suggesting shooting elastic bands at the reapers, would you expect everyone to take that seriously too?

If nuclear weapons were used ship to ship in the Rachni war or Krogan rebellion, they obviously didn't have enough effect to tip the tide in favour of the Council races. If they had, the Krogan and the Genophage wouldn't have been needed. The council would have won based on availability of nuclear weapons. Survival was at stake then too, but such weapons did not bring victory.

Now with a threat of much greater technology and power than either the Rachni or the Krogan, you trot out nukes under the banner of 'nukes are powerful, they will help us win' but completely reject any concept of them being irrelevant.

[Nigawatts]

The reason they probably used Nukes in the Rachni Wars was because in Mass Effect, radiation does what it's supposed to do.

[Inquisitor Recon]

You know, after re-watching the end scene from ME1, it appears the reapers are lacking in good point defense weapons. I am increasingly liking the idea of "build more fighters" (with a smaller version of the thanix cannons) as a solution to killing reapers.

[Count Viceroy]

ReconTeam wrote...

You know, after re-watching the end scene from ME1, it appears the reapers are lacking in good point defense weapons. I am increasingly liking the idea of "build more fighters" (with a smaller version of the thanix cannons) as a solution to killing reapers.

I'd like to see the human speciality in ship design, namely the carrier in aciton in ME3, swarms of fighters with thanix based weapons.

[Vieuxcruex]

What is the one thing that we have seen that Reapers are most certainly unable to reproduce? Why those awesome, awesome things known as biotics. We don't know if the keepers themselves had biotic potential, or if it was just some kind of Harbringer special project (which is why Mr Direct Intervention was the only one that could use them). The thing is, how do we know whether or not that the reapers have defences against them?





My Solution.... Weaponise Vanguards. More importantly, weaponise vanguards that have biotic charge. Build some kind of machine that boosts their charge range to stupid levels, then have them make suicidal charges on the Reaper Vessels, charging onto the bridge, or a weak spot, then dropping off a little bit of nuclear powered fun,



Either that, or we can have the Turan Councillor broadcast a message to them, saying that he has disproved their existence. Between that and the air quotes, the Reapers will obviously be defeated, committing suicide out of sheer horror.



Also, this might be slightly off topic, but how do we know that the Rachni aren't the key to solving this fight. I mean, it appears that the reapers went to a lot of trouble to corrupt them, far earlier then they would have been needed to open the citadel. Plus it would have a fair bit of irony, the ultimate machine life being squashed by bugs.

[Moiaussi]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Okay, seriously ... learn to read!
Why should they had used nukes in the Rachni Rebellions if they had Dreadnoughts which are far more powerful!? Back then those were superiour weapons to nukes and I bet if they used nuclear warheads, they dropped them on infested planets via hit and run tactics a Dreadnought can't execute.
Furthermore, the codex states that the up-to-then species weren't quite inventive on new strategies. Ever thought that could be technological "plothole"!?

If scorched earth was effective, they wouldn't have needed the Krogan. Orbital bombardment isn't a 'new strategy.' It is mentioned in the codex. A dreadnaught's main has the force of many nukes and has effectively unlimited ammunition. If you take out the ships, though, then you stop the spread.

Now you compare this thread with shooting elastic bands!? You do know the difference between those and a nuke, do you? You are assuming facts out of somewhere/sometime we don't know anything about, or did you somehow got a detailed script on how BioWare imagined the Rachni Invasion or the Krogan Rebellions containing detailed information on military operations? I dare to assume you don't.

It is a matter of scale. You look on a nuke as a big weapon, but compared to existing ship's armaments, it is not so big at all. Also it is a very well known weapon and an obvious one. Any race could fire nukes instead of rocks from ships' mass drivers. They don't. The implication is that there is no real advantage to doing so. Does that make sense? Maybe, maybe not, but blame the writers. The Alliance would certainly know of such weapons even if the other races inexplicably don't. If they were effective against mass shielded ships, why wouldn't they have been used in the Turian war? If they were, why were they suddenly inexplicably abandoned with no codex explaination?

And for the forth time, I DO NOT SAY NUKES ARE GOING TO BE A WINNING FACTOR! I merely point out they could be a viable addition to the weaponry and maybe even substitute for platforms that nothing but giant targets to shoot at. Nukes are powerful.
And I reject the concept of them being irrelevant for the simple fact they aren't! I already thoroughly explained that to you. If you fight for survival, you throw everything you got at the enemy, including your arsenal of nukes. If you don't do that, then you are not fighting for your survival simple is that. And then, ... you die/go extinct. Have fun with that.

You simply state that they will be a factor with no other real explaination than 'they make a big boom.' You completely discount the concept that ships might be better sheilded against them than you figure.

Relying on weak or ineffectual weapons distracts from developing useful weapons. IF they are useful, it is a cop out on the writer's part, since if they were useful they should be currently deployed. Oh, and note that they definately know the concept. Shep nuked Vermire, remember? Using the STG's ship's drive core?

And before you quote/respond to this very post, you shall reread this thread and especially my posts, understand them and THEN, only then you shall continue this discussion! Because right now, you are pressing hard into the territory of trolling.]

Translation: If I don't immediately either agree with you or say nothing, you conclude I must be trolling. Right....

We haven't got any ideas on the Reapers from you. So maybe instead if just (mostly halfbaked) trying to prove us wrong (and hearby forgetting that the OP stated nukes being synonym for every up-to-then WMD, so don't just fokus on human fission/fusion bombs, just to clear things up a little!) you tell us what you think a viable part of a strategy?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a thread regarding the discussion of any and all possible weapons against the reapers. Based on ME2 (and a little from ME1), I am expecting we will be arranging a holding action while we race desperately around the clock to develop a new dark energy based weapon system. Either that, or we will find a way to implode dark space (which makes no sense but is pretty technobabble). Or we will seal the reapers off from the galaxy somehow... maybe cut their supply so they cannot complete their 50,000 year manditory refueling stop?

This is ME, though, not Stargate. Even in Stargate they used nukes rarely, using diplomacy and commando action most of the time, later adding Asgard (i.e. alien) tech and 'ancient technology'. ' In stargate, though, personal shields were all designed against energy weapons, so 'primative' human slug throwers held their own most of the time.

Btw, I seem to recall the Geth particle weapons (which are energy weapons) still hitting shields, so the theory that energy weapons ignore mass effect shields seems false, regardless of logic. That implies the radiation does not get through an intact mass effect shield.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 24 août 2010 - 07:49 .

[fongiel24]

Moiaussi wrote...

Btw, I seem to recall the Geth particle weapons (which are energy weapons) still hitting shields, so the theory that energy weapons ignore mass effect shields seems false, regardless of logic. That implies the radiation does not get through an intact mass effect shield.

I agree with the reasoning of most of the above post except for this part. The Codex actually states that beam energy-based weapons (like the point defense lasers used by GARDIAN systems) can cut through kinetic barriers. The reason they're not used as main armament on warships is that the beam dissipates over long distances.

If the galaxy's races could get enough smaller vessels in close enough to swarm a Reaper with laser weapons, they might be able to get through its kinetic barriers but this assumes that Reapers don't have something akin to the Silaris armour of the SR-2.

Another factor to consider in speculating about potential countermeasures to the Reapers is that we can't be sure precisely what a Reaper's full capabilities really are. In ME1 Sovereign's objective wasn't to take out enemy ships - its objective was to close on the Citadel and open up the mass relay hidden within. Sovereign was depending on the geth ships escorting it to keep the Council/Alliance fleets off of it. If Sovereign had been targetting the enemy fleets instead, we might have seen a far different outcome as it could have kept itself at range, allowed the geth to provide a screen, and picked off the enemy vessels one by one.

[Katamariguy]

It might work... if we hit them in the weak point for MASSIVE DAMAGE!

[Moiaussi]

fongiel24 wrote...

I agree with the reasoning of most of the above post except for this part. The Codex actually states that beam energy-based weapons (like the point defense lasers used by GARDIAN systems) can cut through kinetic barriers. The reason they're not used as main armament on warships is that the beam dissipates over long distances.

If the galaxy's races could get enough smaller vessels in close enough to swarm a Reaper with laser weapons, they might be able to get through its kinetic barriers but this assumes that Reapers don't have something akin to the Silaris armour of the SR-2.

Another factor to consider in speculating about potential countermeasures to the Reapers is that we can't be sure precisely what a Reaper's full capabilities really are. In ME1 Sovereign's objective wasn't to take out enemy ships - its objective was to close on the Citadel and open up the mass relay hidden within. Sovereign was depending on the geth ships escorting it to keep the Council/Alliance fleets off of it. If Sovereign had been targetting the enemy fleets instead, we might have seen a far different outcome as it could have kept itself at range, allowed the geth to provide a screen, and picked off the enemy vessels one by one.

To me, when codex (or book) and in game reality clash, in game reality wins. Geth rifles don't ignore shields.

Another reason for thinking these things aren't the answer involves stepping outisde the 4th wall.... Unless ME 3 is going to be purely space based RTS, the solution will have to involve a lot of ground work and small unit tactics. Most of the tactics mentioned here are best deployed as space based weaponry.

There is an exception regarding the concept of hand delivering nukes, but a whole game of planting nukes on various reapers doesn't sound like a particularly good game either.

Very good point on being uncertain of Reaper counter-measures.