190 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Okay, now you are just being plain dumb. If you would have actually read my posts, you'd have found out that I don't advocate for nukes just because they make "a big boom", .... and I lost any motivation to try to explain that one to you.
That is what the second, highlighted part was for. You can't expect me to seriously engage in an discussion with you if you don't pay attention to what is said. You are utilizing Chewbacca-Defense!

I will no longer mind dealing with you for as long as you don't frickin' read what I am writing, every further letter is a waste of energy. Bye!

@Others;

Anyone came up with another possibility to use nukes besides utilizing their radiation and heat?

If this is all you got from my post, you are right, there is no point in continuing to discuss with you. I addressed the various possible positive aspects to using nukes.

[Renaikan]

Anyway, the Galaxy needs to find the Reapers weak point for any nuke to actually make an impact. Vigil already stated their weak point in ME 1. We need to hit them when they are Dark Space. Vigil said when they are there it is when they are most vulnerable. So find a way to activate the Citadel Relay and send the Fleet through and hit them first. So I see Shep in the beginning of ME3 going from various planets with Prothean ruins, maybe back to Ilos? Finding some way to activate the Citadel Relay.

[Count Viceroy]

Renaikan wrote...

Anyway, the Galaxy needs to find the Reapers weak point for any nuke to actually make an impact. Vigil already stated their weak point in ME 1. We need to hit them when they are Dark Space. Vigil said when they are there it is when they are most vulnerable. So find a way to activate the Citadel Relay and send the Fleet through and hit them first. So I see Shep in the beginning of ME3 going from various planets with Prothean ruins, maybe back to Ilos? Finding some way to activate the Citadel Relay.

Yes, while they were inactive/hibernating, they aren't anymore, in fact the last bit of the end vid shows them approaching our galaxy. That opportunity is long gone.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 24 août 2010 - 09:50 .

[Renaikan]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Renaikan wrote...

Anyway, the Galaxy needs to find the Reapers weak point for any nuke to actually make an impact. Vigil already stated their weak point in ME 1. We need to hit them when they are Dark Space. Vigil said when they are there it is when they are most vulnerable. So find a way to activate the Citadel Relay and send the Fleet through and hit them first. So I see Shep in the beginning of ME3 going from various planets with Prothean ruins, maybe back to Ilos? Finding some way to activate the Citadel Relay.

Yes, while they were inactive/hibernating, they aren't anymore, in fact the last bit of the end vid shows them approaching our galaxy. That opportunity is long gone.

Maybe what we saw was a small amount of Reapers sent to reopen the Citadel Relay. Vigil also stated the Reapers are trapped in Dark Space without the Citadel Relay. So the Reapers we may have seen, Sovereign, Harbinger, and the fleet we saw coming were most likely the few that stay behind and hide at the Galactic core.

Modifié par Renaikan, 24 août 2010 - 10:12 .

[Rebel_Guy]

Mass Indoctrination? The Reapers use energy to control their indoctrinated like Saren or Paul Grayson. When you killed Saren that was fully controlled by Sovereign, its shields went down, and at THAT point in the fight the fleet didn't have much trouble taking it out.





If you can perform tests like the ones Cerberus did to have a large amount of indoctrinated, you could be weakening the Reapers by them using their energy to enhance/dominate the mind of the indoctrinated, it's definitely different then simply "invent better weapons" idea that somebody said is what we should NOT think about, but this would be great risk, sacrifice, answer the questions on what the Reapers will use for ground forces, etc.



Thoughts?

[Renaikan]

The Citadel is key. Send our Fleet through, and atack them where they are most vulnerable, Dark Space. When the fleet returns, evacuate the Citadel, arm it with nukes, and destroy it. So any remaining Reaper in Dark Space won't be returning anytime soon. Anyway just my opinion.

[Renaikan]

Rebel_Guy wrote...

Mass Indoctrination? The Reapers use energy to control their indoctrinated like Saren or Paul Grayson. When you killed Saren that was fully controlled by Sovereign, its shields went down, and at THAT point in the fight the fleet didn't have much trouble taking it out.


If you can perform tests like the ones Cerberus did to have a large amount of indoctrinated, you could be weakening the Reapers by them using their energy to enhance/dominate the mind of the indoctrinated, it's definitely different then simply "invent better weapons" idea that somebody said is what we should NOT think about, but this would be great risk, sacrifice, answer the questions on what the Reapers will use for ground forces, etc.

Thoughts?

Only would work if the Reapers would use those indoctrinated to suit their needs. Most likely they will turn their minds to jello.

As for ground troops, the Reapers have the Heretics (Geth).

Modifié par Renaikan, 24 août 2010 - 10:05 .

[Rebel_Guy]

Renaikan wrote...

Rebel_Guy wrote...

Mass Indoctrination? The Reapers use energy to control their indoctrinated like Saren or Paul Grayson. When you killed Saren that was fully controlled by Sovereign, its shields went down, and at THAT point in the fight the fleet didn't have much trouble taking it out.


If you can perform tests like the ones Cerberus did to have a large amount of indoctrinated, you could be weakening the Reapers by them using their energy to enhance/dominate the mind of the indoctrinated, it's definitely different then simply "invent better weapons" idea that somebody said is what we should NOT think about, but this would be great risk, sacrifice, answer the questions on what the Reapers will use for ground forces, etc.

Thoughts?

Only would work if the Reapers would use those indoctrinated to suit their needs. Most likely they will turn their minds to jello.

As for ground troops, the Reapers have the Heretics (Geth).

And if you got rid of the Heretics in Legions mission? 

[Moiaussi]

Renaikan wrote...

The Citadel is key. Send our Fleet through, and atack them where they are most vulnerable, Dark Space. When the fleet returns, evacuate the Citadel, arm it with nukes, and destroy it. So any remaining Reaper in Dark Space won't be returning anytime soon. Anyway just my opinion.

Isn't there a quote in ME 1 somewhere that with the arms closed they can't even dent the Citadel? Any reapers wouldn't be coming through on the scale the Geth did either. It is not a given than they can sufficiently disable the citadel to prevent anything, and again, it is too easy an answer. If it was that simply they wouldn't need Shep.

It *is* possible that there is some central command in dark space that could be taken out by a crack commando team though. If Shep (or a team mate)'s hacking skills are good enough, perhaps Shep n crew will commandeer a reaper to get them inside?

[Count Viceroy]

Moiaussi wrote...

Renaikan wrote...

The Citadel is key. Send our Fleet through, and atack them where they are most vulnerable, Dark Space. When the fleet returns, evacuate the Citadel, arm it with nukes, and destroy it. So any remaining Reaper in Dark Space won't be returning anytime soon. Anyway just my opinion.

Isn't there a quote in ME 1 somewhere that with the arms closed they can't even dent the Citadel? Any reapers wouldn't be coming through on the scale the Geth did either. It is not a given than they can sufficiently disable the citadel to prevent anything, and again, it is too easy an answer. If it was that simply they wouldn't need Shep.

It *is* possible that there is some central command in dark space that could be taken out by a crack commando team though. If Shep (or a team mate)'s hacking skills are good enough, perhaps Shep n crew will commandeer a reaper to get them inside?

That's simply too much Independence day imo...

[Renaikan]

Moiaussi wrote...

Renaikan wrote...

The Citadel is key. Send our Fleet through, and atack them where they are most vulnerable, Dark Space. When the fleet returns, evacuate the Citadel, arm it with nukes, and destroy it. So any remaining Reaper in Dark Space won't be returning anytime soon. Anyway just my opinion.

Isn't there a quote in ME 1 somewhere that with the arms closed they can't even dent the Citadel? Any reapers wouldn't be coming through on the scale the Geth did either. It is not a given than they can sufficiently disable the citadel to prevent anything, and again, it is too easy an answer. If it was that simply they wouldn't need Shep.

It *is* possible that there is some central command in dark space that could be taken out by a crack commando team though. If Shep (or a team mate)'s hacking skills are good enough, perhaps Shep n crew will commandeer a reaper to get them inside?

Yeah I heard that too and also firing on it from the outside isn't wise with a Nebula surrounding it. They said nothing though about not being able to destroy if from the inside.

That could be the case too. Instead of sending a fleet through to Dark Space, Shep and crew go through and destroy them. They still need a way to do this before going through. Answer must be in one of the Prothean beacons. Maybe the Protheans found a way, but were too late to do anything about it.

Anyway, my opinions from what I saw in the first two games.

Modifié par Renaikan, 24 août 2010 - 10:21 .

[Moiaussi]

[quote]Count Viceroy wrote...

Isn't there a quote in ME 1 somewhere that with the arms closed they can't even dent the Citadel? Any reapers wouldn't be coming through on the scale the Geth did either. It is not a given than they can sufficiently disable the citadel to prevent anything, and again, it is too easy an answer. If it was that simply they wouldn't need Shep.

It *is* possible that there is some central command in dark space that could be taken out by a crack commando team though. If Shep (or a team mate)'s hacking skills are good enough, perhaps Shep n crew will commandeer a reaper to get them inside?[/quote]

That's simply too much Independence day imo...

[/quote]

I am not talking about getting on board and delivering a virus... I am talking about getting on board and blowing it up by brute force. It might be possible to hack a single reaper with enough information, but hacking a central command ala Independance Day.would be a bit much.

Take out their central command and we could take out/take control of their relays (as well as properly secure ours). That would be an immense advantage and coupled with the new tech we obtained in ME2, could be enough to secure victory.

[Moiaussi]

Renaikan wrote...

Yeah I heard that too and also firing on it from the outside isn't wise with a Nebula surrounding it. They said nothing though about not being able to destroy if from the inside.

That could be the case too. Instead of sending a fleet through to Dark Space, Shep and crew go through and destroy them. They still need a way to do this before going through. Answer must be in one of the Prothean beacons. Maybe the Protheans found a way, but were too late to do anything about it.

Anyway, my opinions from what I saw in the first two games.

If the citadel is constructed intelligently (and there is no reason to believe it isn't), all the important functions, including damage control (the real damage control, i.e. the keepers) are as shielded as the arms. The damage from Sovereign didn't seem to slow down command and control at all, and that was inside the arms.

[Shadowomega23]

As I posted in another thread about 4 months ago, I had a few concept ships that could be used to fight the reapers. As of late I haven't actually finished working on those concepts. However here is a repost of the orginal concept plus a little extra.

Well due to the people going toward talks of the war with the reapers, I was thinking of finishing work on a ship concept I have been working on. Unlike the Dreadnaughs that are in current use this would be a new class, a fast dreadnaugh, kind of like the Fast Battleships of WW2. Instead of using one massive Cannon that goes the lenght of the ship, it would utilize turret base Thrax cannons for its main weapon system.While using smaller cannons to act a point defence vs smaller ships and maybe fighters. Maybe even going as far as barrowing the UV lasers the Salarans use on their ships. Atm the current ship profile matches the Higarran Heavy Cruiser from Homeworld 2. Photo below of Higarren Heavy Cruiser are below.







Current Concept puts 4 Thrax cannons Dorsal, and 4 Ventral.  They would be Arranged 2 Port, Starboard, In step like formation, similar to WW2 area battleships. This would allow for maxium fireing archs and overlapping fields of fire should the ship be surrounded. Would have the same set up to the aft section. This departure in design would make up for where the Destiny Accession Failed.

There are 4 Ship designs from this frame design.
 
1. Yamato class Super Dreadnaught. 
     Carries 24 Thrax Cannons total 6 forward 6 aft Ventral, same for Dorsal
     Haven't listed conventional weapon, torpedo, or Guardian laser ammount
    This is also the only ship I had in concept that uses a two dual Heavy kinectic accelorators that can push a ship the mass of the SR1 Nomandy to nearly the speed of light before its own Mass Effect core take over the acceloration. (Designed this system to litterly push special designed kinectic kill torpedos to impact reaper ships.Much like the Kamakzi idea that has been suggested alot, but with the idea of catipulting them so they can accelorate to FTL quicker.)
    Fighter bay carries 6 squadrons of 10 strike craft. 2 squadrons of Space Superiority Fighters (Heavy fighter craft), 4 Bomber squadrons.

 2. Bismark Dreadnaught
     Carries 16 Thrax Cannons total 8 4 forward 4 aft Ventral, same for Dorsal
     Haven't listed conventional weapon, torpedo, or Guardian laser ammount, but less then Yamato and More the Iowa
      Figher Bay Carries 4 squadrons of 10 strike craft, 2 squadrons of Space Superiority Fighters (Heavy fighter craft), 2 Bomber Squadrons

 3. Iowa Fast Dreadnaught
     Carries 16 Thrax Cannons total 8 4 forward 4 aft Ventral, same for Dorsal
     Haven't listed conventional weapon, torpedo, or Guardian laser ammount, but less then Bismark
     The most manuverable of the 3 Dreadnaughts and quicker
     No fighter bay
     Does Have mine laying capablities

4.  Unamed Destroyer
     Carries 4 Thrax Cannons 1 forward 1 after ventral, same for Dorsal
     Haven't list secondary weapons
    No fighter bay


I also was working on an idea of a possible "Biotic cannon" which could generate localized barriers, or even try and push/pull projectiles off course, (to do this would need its fire control system tied into a Ladar or radar that can track inc projectiles even thouse moving near FTL speeds.) Could In theory even use something like warp to tear apart incoming torpedos and fighter hauls.   

To note with the Nukes, it is likely the largest effect if any against the reapers would be the EMP they generate. Another note is that people keep thinking back to the two dropped on Japan as referance however the best example of how powerful a nuke can be is by looking at the Tsar, which was rated at 50 Megatons, where as Little Boy went off over Hiroshima was between 13 and 18 Kilotons. The biggest one dropped in WW2 hit Nagasaki, code Fat Man which was rated around 21 Kilotons. Also note the Tsar is a Thermonuclear Device, which uses a Fission-Fussion Reaction, while Fat Man and Little Boy used Fission only. Fission is the splitting off of elections where in Fussion the particals are combinding and generating mass ammount of energy  from doing so. However we still do not know the full effect of what a Thermonuclear (Hydrogen) bomb can do.

Modifié par Shadowomega23, 25 août 2010 - 08:00 .

[Katamariguy]

This should send the reapers running for their mommies...

17 kilometres of death and destruction!

Modifié par Katamariguy, 25 août 2010 - 08:24 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Katamariguy wrote...

This should send the reapers running for their mommies...

17 kilometres of death and destruction!

Personally I was thinking something bigger but idk.. guess it'll do if we don't have anything else.

[Shadowomega23]

Katamariguy wrote...

This should send the reapers running for their mommies...

17 kilometres of death and destruction!

Only 17 Km the biggest ship I designed was 25 Km. Was Called the Hydra, packed a hell of alot of fire power, even that ship would be dust after a volly.

[Teivel]

Just some points that i'd like to throw into the ring. Some on Nukes, some on anti reaper combat in general.

1) The figure we a quoted for dreadnaught firepower is the sub hundred kiloton range.

2) Dreadnaught class vessels are quoted as having refire rates of aproximately 2 seconds.

3) A nuclear weapon in space is extremely deadly, provided it detonates relatively close to the target so that the widest range of detonation products will cause harm.

4) The largest nuclear weapon ever designed by humanity yielded 50 megatons. that's three orders of magnitude on a conventional DN main gun.

5) Theoretically there is nothing stopping you from developing larger multistage warhead designs. There is little to say gigaton yield devices are out of the question besides basic mass restrictions which become lessened in space.

6) Nuclear missiles can be salvoed giving a capital vessel a much heavier throw weight over the shorter period.

7) Normally this strategy would be handicaped by laser point defence technology, the presence of small screening forces and the much longer delivery time between a missile and a solid slug.

8) The reapers have no frigates, appear to have a very limited assortment of weapons and increadible firepower is the order of the day.

Conclusion: Nuclear weapons can offer destructive potential equivalent to anywhere from 1,000-100,000 impacts from a DN main cannon. Their effects are undiminished by KBs and would give the reapers something to think about. Ships equiped en mass with these weapons, whether in missile or drone form would be a devestating weapon against a foe that depends entirely on unwieldy supercapital ships with a suboptimised CIWS suite and no fighter/frigate screen.

Nuke the bastards. (or employ whatever rediciously high yield weapons you can shoehorn into a delivery platform in the ME timeline)


The Sensor Issue (or how a big fleet of supercaps is vulnerable without frigate cover)

1) So far as we know the Reapers are made up of vessels of approximately the same size and make, they are all big, ugly supercaps.

2) Their weaponary consists of sub-c velocity kinetic weapons, with each individual vessel employing several on flexible mounts.

3) Such weapons are ideal for the engagement of large targets given their firepower but are woefully underoptimised for small targets.

4) FTL sensor technology does not exist in the Mass Effect Universe

Conclusion: As Range increases, the ability to which reapers are able to accurately plot a target decreases as a fuction of  a targets ability to change course and speed.  In other words, given that they will be dealing with old data on their sensors, they will only be able to plot an area of space within which the target may be when their weapon fire finally arives. Given the apparent manoeverability disparity before small and large vessels in the ME universe, this means that the range necessary to make engagement for the reapers extremely difficult will be much smaller for frigate or fighter class contacts than for dreadnaughts.

Alliance vessels and the like however, while also lacking FTL sensors, possess FTL communications and a diverse range of vessels.

It is conceivable for small vessels, frigates, fighters or even drones, to run evasive patterns ahead of any reaper formation and relay this information back to far distant vessels providing real time rather than lagged targeting information. This would dramatically increase the effective engagment range of a mixed indigenous fleet vs a reaper fleet. Note that unlike the Thanix is god crowd i'm not suggesting the frigates attempt to knife fight with the reapers. Attempting to do so is counterproductive and would likely lead to a massacre of the frigates. The Thanix is no wunderwaffen, the damage it can inflict is still limited by the speed to which the suspended slug can be accelerated and how much energy the ship can shunt into the weapon. The reapers have an exceptional advantage in this respect..they have much bigger versions, much more energy and much higher resiliency.

This also fascilitates a brand of ambush tactics if Reapers are restricted to mass relays (sensor drones providing data to a fleet standing by far distant from the gate. Reapers would have a very limited time to react before projectiles began imacting, specifically the time taken for incoming projectiles to travel the distance vs the speed of light and the time taken to orient and fire the weapons.)

Modifié par Teivel, 25 août 2010 - 11:14 .

[Jzadek72]

Has anyone read the Culture books, by Ian M. Banks? Something like a General Systems Vehicle would wipe the floor with the Reapers.

[Count Viceroy]

Teivel wrote...

Alot

Here's a fun thought on all our theorycrafting.

Supposedly the slight differences between the reapers are due to the race it took to create them. What if they also have specialised roles? 

It'd be tactically stupid to roll with an anti captial ship fleet without any support. The reapers are arrogant, but they arent stupid. Either they'll have smaller reaper fighter crafts, something like the squids in matrix perhaps or they'll have dedicated reapers ships for fighter screening and defence. We've only seen sovreign, maybe he was a anti capital ship class reaper.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 25 août 2010 - 10:24 .

[JGDD]

I'm still having problems with those thinking the reapers have never faced this same offense/defense in the past. One glance at the codex and the planet Jartar makes me shake my head. A billion year old ship perhaps done in by reapers (maybe a reaper itself?) gets you wondering about the hows and whys. They must have seen this before and fully expect it again.



Reaper interest in humans may stem from the fact that we do something just different enough from all previous civilizations to warrant their attention specifically this time around. Do they fear us? Unlikely since they are machines, but they may not want us developing further to cause them serious setbacks and losses during their galactic hell raising. In fact, that may be why they are so focused on humans. We have an innate ability to charge into situations head first and still manage to survive. Something the reapers probably find attractive and necessary to add to their evolving needs.



Anyway, roughly 20,000 cycles (going by ME lore here) of galactic death, destruction, and rebirth and not one single species trying nukes before...just not seeing it. Didn't work in the past, will not work this time. Our very unpredictable nature is more likely going to save us versus a big blast.

[Mithrennon]

So... where is my antimatter? We can make it, in tiny quantities.

If we had ME level tech we could mass produce the stuff with a dedicated station around every major star.

If you shoot a nuke, it's no danger anymore, if you shoot an antimatter warhead, it blows with its full force, which makes mass effect fields useless, plus you can have a much higher yield than with nukes.

Besides, there has to be tech superior to reaper tech around if a mass relay can withstand a supernova, but a reaper can be destroyed by alliance vessels once its shields are out.

On the other hand, maybe a mass relay has a super strong shield on constantly as a sideeffect of what its main function is.

But then how do the citadel and omega (the reaper made opposite to the citadel) have a basically indestructible main structure?

I know I am going in circles, but if the reapers can make stuff indestructible, why can they themselves be destroyed?

[JGDD]

Mithrennon wrote...
Besides, there has to be tech superior to reaper tech around if a mass relay can withstand a supernova

The relays were made by reapers.

[Mithrennon]

I know they were, but what I was trying to say is that the relays can take more punishment than a reaper itself can. So even if a relay is reaper tech, it's a higher level of tech than the ones reapers...err...made themselves with. If that makes any sense.