229 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatDancingTurian]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Cerebrus will likley still play a large role in ME3, she is still important and has alot of character devolpment left (her dad and quitting cerebrus)
Virimire survivor not so much

Possibly, possibly not. But Miranda isn't -required- to deal with TIM, Shepard talked with him just fine through most of the game without her help.. And there's always Jacob for those few missions we may have where we need someone to chime in and say 'Cerberus blah blah blah!'.

And I'm not saying she doesn't have a lot more potential as far as character development goes, but that's true of a lot of characters. I'm just saying she's not as indespensible for the main plot as Extreme is claiming.

Like I said before, I like her, and I'd like her back, just pointing out the flaws in Extreme's, er, 'logic'.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I don't care what any of you say, Tetris is more awesome than your face

[ShadoX_LV]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't care what any of you say, Tetris is more awesome than your face

You should probably pick up one of those...

[Shadow_broker]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

Cerebrus will likley still play a large role in ME3, she is still important and has alot of character devolpment left (her dad and quitting cerebrus)
Virimire survivor not so much

Possibly, possibly not. But Miranda isn't -required- to deal with TIM, Shepard talked with him just fine through most of the game without her help.. And there's always Jacob for those few missions we may have where we need someone to chime in and say 'Cerberus blah blah blah!'.

And I'm not saying she doesn't have a lot more potential as far as character development goes, but that's true of a lot of characters. I'm just saying she's not as indespensible for the main plot as Extreme is claiming.

Like I said before, I like her, and I'd like her back, just pointing out the flaws in Extreme's, er, 'logic'.

All characters haee potential future character devolpment, ofcourse. But miranda is the only one who really has it pointed out in ME2. Would hate to be left haning on her dad AND quitting cerebrus(who protects her sister from said dad) which were to majior parts of her character and since it happens at endgame seems a likley foreshadowing of her squad status in ME3

Miranda isn't required with TIM but her character was a great way to understand cerebrus goals and methods from an inside point of view, If they play a large role in ME3 unless we get another Pro cerebrus squadmate(jacob dosen't trust or have any real inside info on them so he dosen't count) she will be needed to voice reason  when TIM goes off his nut and trys to kill shepard even if she is no longer part of them (also Miranda is only known squaddie with TIM's location)

Modifié par Shadow_broker, 24 août 2010 - 11:40 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

ShadoX_LV wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't care what any of you say, Tetris is more awesome than your face

You should probably pick up one of those...

[ThatDancingTurian]

Shadow_broker wrote...

All characters haee potential future character devolpment, ofcourse. But miranda is the only one who really has it pointed out in ME2. Would hate to be left haning on her dad AND quitting cerebrus(who protects her sister from said dad) which were to majior parts of her character and since it happens at endgame seems a likley foreshadowing of her squad status in ME3

Miranda isn't required with TIM but her character was a great way to understand cerebrus goals and methods from an inside point of view, If they play a large role in ME3 unless we get another Pro cerebrus squadmate(jacob dosen't trust or have any real inside info on them so he dosen't count) she will be needed to voice reason  when TIM goes off his nut and trys to kill shepard even if she is no longer part of them (also Miranda is only known squaddie with TIM's location)

Miranda did nothing to help me understand Cerberus' goals and methods. She just parroted the same company lines TIM used or said, 'That was a rogue operation!'.. And we still don't know how big Cerberus' role will be in ME3, much less in a way where we'd need additional insights into their procedures. We understand them pretty well now. Either you're with them (in which case TIM himself could give you whatever info you need) or your against them (in which case you might be required to take them out and intel may be needed, but could be given by Miranda or another character through a cameo role and hardly requires her squad presence).

As far as character development goes, nothing in her backstory screams 'must be shown', unless you're a huge fan of her. It's all subjective.

[Chaos-fusion]

Shadow_broker wrote...

All characters haee potential future character devolpment, ofcourse. But miranda is the only one who really has it pointed out in ME2.

Jack and the paragon romance? Mordin's views on his part in the genophage? I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that.

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 24 août 2010 - 11:58 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

The only character who will have plot development in 3 is Udina.



Mark my words

[Count Viceroy]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The only character who will have plot development in 3 is Udina.

Mark my words

That would be an outrage, to say the least

[Shadow_broker]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

All characters haee potential future character devolpment, ofcourse. But miranda is the only one who really has it pointed out in ME2. Would hate to be left haning on her dad AND quitting cerebrus(who protects her sister from said dad) which were to majior parts of her character and since it happens at endgame seems a likley foreshadowing of her squad status in ME3

Miranda isn't required with TIM but her character was a great way to understand cerebrus goals and methods from an inside point of view, If they play a large role in ME3 unless we get another Pro cerebrus squadmate(jacob dosen't trust or have any real inside info on them so he dosen't count) she will be needed to voice reason  when TIM goes off his nut and trys to kill shepard even if she is no longer part of them (also Miranda is only known squaddie with TIM's location)

Miranda did nothing to help me understand Cerberus' goals and methods. She just parroted the same company lines TIM used or said, 'That was a rogue operation!'.. And we still don't know how big Cerberus' role will be in ME3, much less in a way where we'd need additional insights into their procedures. We understand them pretty well now. Either you're with them (in which case TIM himself could give you whatever info you need) or your against them (in which case you might be required to take them out and intel may be needed, but could be given by Miranda or another character through a cameo role and hardly requires her squad presence).

As far as character development goes, nothing in her backstory screams 'must be shown', unless you're a huge fan of her. It's all subjective.

Her very first conversation onboard the normandy you can investigate to ask her about anything from cerebrus(resource's,Goals, Illusive man) and until  loyalty basically all you discuss is cerebrus and her feelings towards it and why it's not quite as evil as paragon shepard would believe.
Would be odd to cut out something so awesome as Illusive man and cerebrus in ME3 i think plenty of fans would be dissapointed if illusive man got degraded to cameo like anderson in ME3 so i doubt Bioware will play a minor role considering it's possible to still be working for them
and anyone who slightly give a damn about her character would know that without cerebrus protected her and her sister from her father and if that's ignored in ME3 im pretty sure there would be lots of people who went "wait why isn't her dad after her without cerberus"

[Shadow_broker]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

All characters haee potential future character devolpment, ofcourse. But miranda is the only one who really has it pointed out in ME2.

Jack and the paragon romance? Mordin's views on his part in the genophage? I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that.

Forgot about those  but Mordins few on genophage is charcter changing too i guess as is jacks personality turnaround

[ThatDancingTurian]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

All characters haee potential future character devolpment, ofcourse. But miranda is the only one who really has it pointed out in ME2.

Jack and the paragon romance? Mordin's views on his part in the genophage? I'm going to have to politely disagree with you on that.

Exactly. I think a majority of the squaddies had threads that could be expanded in ME3. Garrus is (unfortunately for Garrus fans like myself) one of the few that didn't, but he also mentioned things in ME1 which could come up. I honestly think because ME2 relied so heavily on character development that it will be taking a backseat in ME3, but I hope I'm wrong about that.

@Shadow_broker: Miranda is trying to sell you on Cerberus. When you unshackle EDI, she can tell you more about Cerberus than Miranda ever does. I still contend that she's not vital to Shepard's mission, at least until I know more about the plot of ME3.

Also, TIM is a divisive character and 'awesome' is a matter of opinion. That said I agree that he'll likely be a part of ME3, but let's not forget, ME3 is about the Reapers. Everything else is secondary.

[Shadow_broker]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

All characters haee potential future character devolpment, ofcourse. But miranda is the only one who really has it pointed out in ME2.

Jack and the paragon romance? Mordin's views on his part in the genophage? I'm going to have to politely disagree with you on that.

Exactly. I think a majority of the squaddies had threads that could be expanded in ME3. Garrus is (unfortunately for Garrus fans like myself) one of the few that didn't, but he also mentioned things in ME1 which could come up. I honestly think because ME2 relied so heavily on character development that it will be taking a backseat in ME3, but I hope I'm wrong about that.

@Shadow_broker: Miranda is trying to sell you on Cerberus. When you unshackle EDI, she can tell you more about Cerberus than Miranda ever does. I still contend that she's not vital to Shepard's mission, at least until I know more about the plot of ME3.

Also, TIM is a divisive character and 'awesome' is a matter of opinion. That said I agree that he'll likely be a part of ME3, but let's not forget, ME3 is about the Reapers. Everything else is secondary.

She Still has a big place to go with her personal story which seems more than enough to foreshadow her coming back in ME3
Reapers don't play as large as a part of the story as cerebrus does in ME2, They simply are a motivational force the theme is revolved more around human and cerebrus standing in the universe. reapers are rarley shown or mentioned until we see the fleet at the end Don't even get a true conversation with harbinger we really just get to see their collector agents.
More likley to get a reaper avatar in ME3 like Saren rather than making direct contact with them then towards the end do another suicide mission to shut them down once and for all like we did in ME1 and 2

If you don't think TIM was awesome you just had the first wrong opinion ever. Bioware put alot of love into his character and is very involved in novels won't be tossed away till he's dead,
If TIM is  majiorly involved it would be crazy to keep Miranda out we didn't even get to see his true reaction to losing his top and most trusted officer
They don't have to keep miranda in but would be pretty bad to waste all her potential with direct connection with a possible antagonist of Me3

[Shadow_broker]

Also a majiorty of squadies is an exageration most have no where to go with their character unless you make something random up that they never mentioned

Thane

Samara

Tali(unless dark matter plot theory plays out)

Grunt

Jacob

Garrus

kasumi unless greybox was like reaper schematics which is doubtful since being the sweet person she is would have mentioned to shep

[ThatDancingTurian]

Shadow_broker wrote...

She Still has a big place to go with her personal story which seems more than enough to foreshadow her coming back in ME3
Reapers don't play as large as a part of the story as cerebrus does in ME2, They simply are a motivational force the theme is revolved more around human and cerebrus standing in the universe. reapers are rarley shown or mentioned until we see the fleet at the end Don't even get a true conversation with harbinger we really just get to see their collector agents.
More likley to get a reaper avatar in ME3 like Saren rather than making direct contact with them then towards the end do another suicide mission to shut them down once and for all like we did in ME1 and 2

If you don't think TIM was awesome you just had the first wrong opinion ever. Bioware put alot of love into his character and is very involved in novels won't be tossed away till he's dead,
If TIM is  majiorly involved it would be crazy to keep Miranda out we didn't even get to see his true reaction to losing his top and most trusted officer
They don't have to keep miranda in but would be pretty bad to waste all her potential with direct connection with a possible antagonist of Me3

::sighs:: Whether or not I think someone is awesome is not 'right' or 'wrong'.

BioWare puts love into all of their characters, that doesn't mean they have a place in the narrative. And I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm just saying assuming it's going to be all about Cerberus seems premature, and assuming it's going to be all about Cerberus in a way that we absolutely need Miranda is especially premature. The true antagonists in Mass Effect are the Reapers, regardless of how small their part was in ME2 compared to Cerberus. We simply don't know how they'll manifest in ME3, but the one thing that is very clear is that everything is building towards a confrontation with the Reapers. Whether Cerberus has a part in that for good or for evil is yet to be seen.

And whatever Miranda's personal story, it's not relevant to the main plot. Is it interesting? Yeah, sure. Do I personally think it should be resolved? Yeah, sure. But that doesn't make her own character arc vital to ME3 any more so than any other character's personal plots, be they foreshadowed in previous games or otherwise.

[Dave of Canada]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The only character who will have plot development in 3 is Udina.

Mark my words

I really do hope swallowing my pride and picking him, even if it's the default, atleast rewards me in some kind.

[Mallissin]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

ShadoX_LV wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't care what any of you say, Tetris is more awesome than your face

You should probably pick up one of those...

[Killjoy Cutter]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I really don't understand the raw hatred that people develop for any of the ME2 squadies. The worst are meh, the best are very interesting characters.

  


oh it started with all the anti Mass Effect 2 crap. Tali and Garrus are treated like gods on this forum for no reason at all beside they were part of Mass Effect 1. Tali and Garrus are strictly in Mass Effect 2 as fan service for those ME 1 fans. and now Mass Effect 2 is going to have some Liara content. hell bioware should have just made Mass Effect 1 into one big freaking game. its nice that the story from ME 1 is keep going in ME 2 but damn ME 2 should have had its own part of the story as well Shepard should of had a new crew in it. no Bioware has to do the butt kissing to the fans of ME 1. now we have killing Miranda thread but god forbid if there was a killing Tali thread people would be pissed and outraged. 

Do you think that's the only reason that BioWare would have included some carry over of characters from ME1 to ME2?  I'm honestly curious.

  


yeah i do. there is no real reason beside fan service for those ME 1 fans. 

1) The way that Garrus is brought in is a touch contrived, I'll grant that.  But in general, if you're going to go do the things that Shep is setting out to do, wouldn't you want people you've learned you can count on as part of your team?  You can even press TIM to get them all back, and along the way any of the others you run into, can be asked to come along.  If I were Shep, I'd want Garrus, Wrex, Tali, Liara, and Ashley/Kaiden as part of my team.

2) I notice no one talks about Joker and Chakwas being contrived fanservice, and yet here there are as repeat characters.

3) If you were creating the sequel to a very successful video game, wouldn't you bring back one or two of the more popular NPCs?

[asaiasai]

I am not going to join in the fray and say that any character is more or less valuable, important, required because these things should be left up to the layer. If a player does not like a specific character they should be able to shoot them in the face tossing the lifeless corpse out an airlock, not recruit the character at all, utalize the character as much or as little as they desire, pretty much the NPCs used should be completely at the discretion of the player. I think if a player wants to kill, dismiss, or ignore a specific character and be willing to deal with the consequences of that decision by all means allow them/us the option to do so. Character value is completely subjective and never should a single character take preeminence over the value of the PC, never should plot interfere with player decisions, now you can make the decisions the PC makes have major consequences which is my preffered method.



My play style is 99.9% of the time Samara, Grunt and the PC the rest can really pretty much rot as far as i am concerned. What should have happened is in the final mission the PC if an engineer or tech heavy class should have had the opportunity to go into the vents relying on a fire team to navigate the combat to release the valves. The trouble is the AI while not bad is not up to PC levelsr at any combat, this would also require a serious revamp of game mechanics, and the AI for this encounter.



I have always had a problem when story gets in the way of how i would choose to deal with a game situation. It is one of the reasons GTA 4 pisses me off because of some of the assinine combat situations the developer decided would be "fun", that i have no way to bypass so instead i have to do some ****** dirtbike/motorboat chase, followed by a helo/boat chase. Utter puking garbage, when i was able to get the drop on Pegarino before he left the roof, i still had to participate in the nonsense of the chase, where i should have been able to if i had the skill put 2 in his face on the roof and walk off rendering the shinanigans of the chase moot.



Asai

[Killjoy Cutter]

asaiasai wrote...

I am not going to join in the fray and say that any character is more or less valuable, important, required because these things should be left up to the layer. If a player does not like a specific character they should be able to shoot them in the face tossing the lifeless corpse out an airlock, not recruit the character at all, utalize the character as much or as little as they desire, pretty much the NPCs used should be completely at the discretion of the player. I think if a player wants to kill, dismiss, or ignore a specific character and be willing to deal with the consequences of that decision by all means allow them/us the option to do so. Character value is completely subjective and never should a single character take preeminence over the value of the PC, never should plot interfere with player decisions, now you can make the decisions the PC makes have major consequences which is my preffered method.

My play style is 99.9% of the time Samara, Grunt and the PC the rest can really pretty much rot as far as i am concerned. What should have happened is in the final mission the PC if an engineer or tech heavy class should have had the opportunity to go into the vents relying on a fire team to navigate the combat to release the valves. The trouble is the AI while not bad is not up to PC levelsr at any combat, this would also require a serious revamp of game mechanics, and the AI for this encounter.

I have always had a problem when story gets in the way of how i would choose to deal with a game situation. It is one of the reasons GTA 4 pisses me off because of some of the assinine combat situations the developer decided would be "fun", that i have no way to bypass so instead i have to do some ****** dirtbike/motorboat chase, followed by a helo/boat chase. Utter puking garbage, when i was able to get the drop on Pegarino before he left the roof, i still had to participate in the nonsense of the chase, where i should have been able to if i had the skill put 2 in his face on the roof and walk off rendering the shinanigans of the chase moot.

Asai

Sounds like the end of the Zaeed loyalty mission...  "I'm standing right here with a full missile launcher, let me fire the thing, damnit!"

[We'll bang okay]

kill Miranda :'( nooooooooooo

[kraidy1117]

Douglas n7 wrote...

kill Miranda :'( nooooooooooo

[Sand King]

Your a little late kraidy.

[kraidy1117]

Sand King wrote...

Your a little late kraidy.

It took awhile to find that >.>

[Sand King]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Sand King wrote...

Your a little late kraidy.

It took awhile to find that >.>

Well better late than never.