13 réponses à ce sujet

[SometimesSpring]

Hey guys, I'm putting this up on behalf of a buddy who's too lazy to make his own account. <_<

Basically he wants to know whether to go for a dwarven fighter/cleric or a half-elf cleric/ranger. I think the sad part is that he's basing all this on one weapon: the vs. giant war hammers. The dwarf can use the Dwarven Thrower which does 2d4 + 8 to giants and ogres if I remember correctly, whereas the C/R can use the War Hammer +4 vs. giantkin which does 1d4 + 5 I believe. Personally, I think the dwarf - in addition to getting the better weapon - gets better saves and can reach grandmastery in hammers (he has multiclass grandmastery) but he wants "your esteemed analyses" on the matter. 

[Slyx]

How about a thief/cleric (or any other thief combo) with UAI so he can use any weapon he wants? No grandmastery of course, and attacks/round aren't going to be great until you get UAI for belm/scarlet ninja-to/kundane. This is coming from a soloing perspective.



If he's going to have a full or partial party, he could always give the Dwarven Thrower to Korgan.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

The RC is the better caster, so that build will probably end up at the top even if the FC has better weapons (and mastery over them). Ironskins alone makes up for a lot. Insect Plague means that even if his saves are inferior, there will be a lot less opportunities for the enemies to exploit this weakness.
The RC can get 10 APR with slings, each attack dealing 27 damage. Throwing axes are nice and all, but they are only the "best" ranged weapon in the hands of a kensai.
Edit:
As for melee, the RC uses the Flail of Ages. That is usually the best choice. The damage (29, part of which elemental) is good in SoA, but it's awesome in ToB (38, again, part of which elemental).

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 22 août 2010 - 02:01 .

[SometimesSpring]

He is going with a full party, crap I should have mentioned this. And there's no Korgan, it'll be him, Keldorn, Minsc, Aerie, Nalia/Imoen, and Jan.

[Chebby]

He'll get the CF warhammer which means 25(!!!) strength with either of them. For roleplay purposes, F/C, but for powergaming, R/C will outdo it.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Chebby wrote...

He'll get the CF warhammer which means 25(!!!) strength with either of them. For roleplay purposes, F/C, but for powergaming, R/C will outdo it.

Clerics have strength 25 anyway. Holy Power + Righteous Magic + (optional but awesome) Draw Upon Holy Might.
Cleric science sneers at your Crom Faeyr.

Oh and what I said in my last post about the RC with slings and flails is of course also true for the FC (who with grandmastery will of course deal more damage).

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 22 août 2010 - 07:34 .

[Chebby]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Clerics have strength 25 anyway. Holy Power + Righteous Magic + (optional but awesome) Draw Upon Holy Might.
Cleric science sneers at your Crom Faeyr.

Oh
and what I said in my last post about the RC with slings and flails is
of course also true for the FC (who with grandmastery will of course
deal more damage).

Depends on whether or not you want to buff all the time. Crom Faeyr saves time, in regards to the strength buff. I've never really used those spells or had a true need to, but if they're short duration, CF saves time in the sense that it's constant and won't wear off in combat. Sure, most fights they won't wear off before the end of the battle, but for bosses or particular battles I'd prefer concentrating on things such as negative plane protection, elemental protection etc.

And also; if he's looking into a Dwarven FC he won't be able to get grandmastery, if I'm correct? At character creation you can only put a maximum of ** in the weapon proficiencies, at least.

[Slyx]

A cleric's base THAC0 bottoms out at 6 at lvl 22. Holy Power lasts 2 minutes.  At lvl 20+ it will set your base THAC0 to 1, gives +20 to max hitpoints, and sets str to 18/00. This will lower your str if it's already 19+. If you cast Righteous Magic afterward, you will gain an additional 20 hitpoints (+40 total), you will do max damage with each melee or ranged hit, and it gives +6 str, and stacks with Holy Power. Unfortunately you'll only have 24 str here, so you'll still need to cast Draw Upon Holy Might third if you want to cap your str. DUHM only lasts for 60 seconds (1 turn), where a lvl 20 casting of HP and RM lasts 120 seconds (2 turns).

These 3 spells make for an excellent pre-buff before you go to backstab that mage and take on his party. With 2-hand weapon style, and the staff of striking (avail at the Temple of Lathander in Temple District, or Trademeet guy that sells Belt of Inertial Barrier, etc.) I do 94 damage, every time I use the 3 cast combo above.

Modifié par Slyx, 22 août 2010 - 08:54 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Chebby wrote...
Depends on whether or not you want to buff all the time. Crom Faeyr saves time, in regards to the strength buff.

But you deal more damage my way. Righteous Magic gives you 38 more damage per round than Crom Faeyr. (leaving out all that's the same, namely FoA+5, GWW, Str 25, ** a.s.o.)

I'd prefer concentrating on things such as negative plane protection,

NPP is one of the worst spells in the entire game simply for it's low duration. Try using items, either the Amulet of Power (if you've got no mage), the Runehammer or the IMoD.

And also; if he's looking into a Dwarven FC he won't be able to get grandmastery, if I'm correct? At character creation you can only put a maximum of ** in the weapon proficiencies, at least.

He said he was going to use the multiclass grandmastery patch. Are you going to stop him?

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 22 août 2010 - 09:42 .

[Morbidest]

Another type of argument for creating and using Crom F with a dwarven RC is that I think throwing hammers (like throwing axes and slings) get the phony melee bonus. Of course you won't be S=25 with the DT, but  by the time you assemble Crom F, you've had opportunities to get your strength up to at least 19. Another reason is that you can use the Inertial Barrier belt on your PC instead of a strength belt. And finally, if you like using Vicky as your chief cleric and want your PC to be a flail or axe maven, you can always give her Crom F and make her a decent 2nd line fighter.

[Shadow_Leech07]

R/C should be a giant leap over the F/C. I'm pretty sure they get all druid spells right? Nature's beauty, ironskin, all that good stuff? Plus the DUHM/Holy power/righteous magic Aka all the cleric spells? Man, that's too good. Sign me up! Lol.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Morbidest wrote...
Another type of argument for creating and using Crom F with a dwarven RC is that I think throwing hammers (like throwing axes and slings) get the phony melee bonus.

Firstly, there are no dwarven RCs.

Of course you won't be S=25 with the DT, but  by the time you assemble Crom F, you've had opportunities to get your strength up to at least 19. Another reason is that you can use the Inertial Barrier belt on your PC instead of a strength belt.

We are talking about a cleric here. Yes, it will take some buffing, but strength 25 is usually worth that.

But yes, the DT deals as much damage as Sling of Seeking with Bullets +4. (sorry, for some reason I compared the sling to throwing axes instead of this obvious weapon), but as I said before, Ironskins and Insects are worth something too, and if it's DT or those, I know what I'd choose, powerwise. (RP wise is always another question )

And finally, if you like using Vicky as your chief cleric and want your PC to be a flail or axe maven, you can always give her Crom F and make her a decent 2nd line fighter.

That's actually a pretty good point, because CF is, even if it does less damage than FoA, simply one of the best weapons for clerics just for it's damage.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 23 août 2010 - 12:49 .

[Chebby]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
He said he was going to use the multiclass grandmastery patch. Are you going to stop him?

That'll teach me to skimread.

Back on topic, I'd still say it depends upon whether your friend's a roleplayer or not. If somebody likes the idea of their <charname> being a Dwarf, a half-Orc, a gnome etc, s/he should just go for it. Sure, you won't get many reactions to your race, but it can affect your mindset and consequently improve the immersion factor.
If he doesn't care two licks about roleplay, R/C is my recommendation.

[SometimesSpring]

So I forwarded this topic's link to him, and after reading everything he's decided to half-and-half with his whims and your recommendations. He's going dwarven F/C, grandmastery in hammers and slings. He plans to start out using the electrical damage hammer Ribald sells and then moving onto the Dwarven Thrower until he gets Runehammer. Alongside this will be the Sling of Seeking or Sling of Everard depending on the situation, and the best shield he can buy/find at the time.

Edit: Oh and he's going three-man on this. Himself, Jan, and Cernd. Yeah, I know. Don't ask.

Modifié par SometimesSpring, 24 août 2010 - 01:54 .