43 réponses à ce sujet

[C Writer]

Is it me, or are vanguards in ME a better pure biotic than adepts are? True, vanguards miss out on statis and singularity (can't say I'd ever miss the first), but firstly, you can give them singularity as a bonus power, and secondly, unlike adepts, they can use their powers all over again by using adrenaline burst. Therefore, they can use more biotic powers in a certain space of time than an adept can. Coupled with their superior fighting abilities including theor bonus health, shotgun training, medium armour proficiency, and so on, I can't see how the adept can beat the vanguard in any way. But heck, this is just how I view it at the moment.

So, does anyone think this too? Or are adepts still better as pure biotics despite their lack of adrenaline burst? If so, what do they have which vanguards don't that is significant enough to make them a potent choice compared with VGs? I'd welcome any opinions.

[Count Viceroy]

If you give singularty to the vanguard as a bonus power, then there's no real reason to go adept. Adepts have shorter cds on powers. thats about it really. Some people vouch for stasis, but I've never liked it, cheesy as hell, esp if you go bastion.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 22 août 2010 - 01:29 .

[AntiChri5]

I just love adrenaline burst with my Vangaurd. Especially if i take Shock Trooper.

[PrinceLionheart]

A Singularity Vanguard really outshines the adept IMO so I think so.

[Funkcase]

Yeah, a vangaurd with singularity made insanity so easy for me.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

I like both classes, but it's quite accurate to say that Vanguard/Shock Trooper/Singularity renders the Adept completely obsolete. Stasis is the only draw of a Bastion Adept, and because I play a Nemesis Adept, I feel like I'm playing a poor man's Vanguard most of the time.

[OniGanon]

In ME1 the Vanguard and the Infiltrator were pretty much the kings of all classes, having the survivability and combat prowess of a Soldier while being very nearly as good at biotics/tech as the Adept and Engineer respectively.

This was due to the greater number of abilities per class, less restriction on bonus power, and the Pistol being the best weapon in the game.

Modifié par OniGanon, 22 août 2010 - 03:19 .

[IntrepidProdigy]

Yep, nemesis vanguard with singularity was the king of the crop in ME1. Not only do they have the crowd control to keep enemies at bay, but they had one of if not the best pistol damage in the game. They can also have the best squad set-up in the game (for pure dps).

Garrus and Wrex both are the best dps squad mates in the game, here's why: Garrus deals the most damage in your squad (thanks to assault training and turian agent), he also carried the bonus of being your decryption/electronics guy for unlocking any crate you might find. Wrex has warp (your second warp,and with nemesis, the vanguard's warp was even beter. warp also stacked in ME1). both have training in assault rifles, once you get the spectre X assault rifle equip them both with it. For upgrades you give them 1X frictionless materials, 1X rail extension VII/scram rail X (depending on if you threw any of your rail extension VII's out), and 1X shredder VII/tungsten VII (dependent on the enemy) and they will effectively fire forever. On top of this, you get extra damage with pistols (and shotguns) with nemesis training (forgot the actual percentage). For your pistol, equip the spectre X pistol with 2X rail extension VII's/scram rail X's, and 1X shredder VII/tungsten VII. This may seem crazy to some, but it's very effective damage since in conjunction with your squadmates, you'll be killing just about every enemy before the pistol will overheat.

Being a vanguard effectively allowed you to crowd control the battlefield (throw a singularity + warp combo to soften up the enemies caught in singularity and you've locked down a whole room for you and your squadmates to pepper them with lightening speed, or nemesis lift a whole group of enemies "out of bounds" killing them all in an instant or use it like singularity in doors to lock down the entire room) which allowed for much better survivability of your squad than any other class, bar the adept, but the adept didn't have the offensive capabilities that the vanguard had. You can literally just throw down a singularity + your and wrex's warp and then just sit back and watch your squadmates kill everything for you. Enemies just went down so fast on insanity even the colossus. Thresher maws went down on foot within 2-3 acid spits.

Modifié par IntrepidProdigy, 22 août 2010 - 06:27 .

[C Writer]

Hmm, this is exactly how I thought it was then. It just seemed odd because I would have thought that BioWare would have balanced it better, but pehaps not. Not that it really matters; I'm playing a vanguard with singularity at the moment anyway. Anyway, thankyou all for your opinions. And if anyone else has anything different to say about it, go ahead and say so.

[OniGanon]

IntrepidProdigy wrote...
nemesis lift

Oh how I miss that.

[tonnactus]

Stasis is the only power that could disable flying enemies like drones and saren.And is able to shot down even thresher
maws for some seconds and hurt them with bastion.Nothing the vanguard offer come close to that.
I rather go the other way.Adept with shotgun bonus.
No need to waste points in armor and pistols.

[IntrepidProdigy]

tonnactus wrote...

Stasis is the only power that could disable flying enemies like drones and saren.And is able to shot down even thresher
maws for some seconds and hurt them with bastion.Nothing the vanguard offer come close to that.
I rather go the other way.Adept with shotgun bonus.
No need to waste points in armor and pistols.

Actually, bastion stasis still doesn't compare to the arsenal that the nemesis vanguard has. When bastion stasis is activated, your squadmates stop firing at that enemy, thus losing valuable dps. Also, you can only get 1 person in bastion stasis at a time. Nemesis lift, or regular lift (maxed out) for that matter could disable sovereign/saren, If you mean the version of saren that was on the hoverboard, he wasn't that hard to kill in the first place and he goes down extremely fast with the garrus/wrex combo previously mentioned.

Modifié par IntrepidProdigy, 23 août 2010 - 01:36 .

[IntrepidProdigy]

OniGanon wrote...

IntrepidProdigy wrote...
nemesis lift

Oh how I miss that.

I concur. 

[The Spamming Troll]

the vangaurd is better in my opinion. two words "dual singularity"

[NICKjnp]

I liked to go Nemesis adept with Assault Rifle as my bonus power. I didn't put a single point in the weapons. I used the glitch to get massive ammounts of money on the citadel early on and bought Spectre weapons... no need for accuracy upgrades. I put the high explosive rounds in the shotgun and didn't even need to aim with it.

[Mr_Raider]

C Writer wrote...
Therefore, they can use more biotic powers in a certain space of time than an adept can. Coupled with their superior fighting abilities including theor bonus health, shotgun training, medium armour proficiency, and so on, I can't see how the adept can beat the vanguard in any way. But heck, this is just how I view it at the moment.

So, does anyone think this too?

You don't have enough talents points to do all that. Usually, the shotgun and armor get lost in the shuffle.

[PsyrenY]

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

Actually, bastion stasis still doesn't compare to the arsenal that the nemesis vanguard has. When bastion stasis is activated, your squadmates stop firing at that enemy, thus losing valuable dps. Also, you can only get 1 person in bastion stasis at a time. Nemesis lift, or regular lift (maxed out) for that matter could disable sovereign/saren, If you mean the version of saren that was on the hoverboard, he wasn't that hard to kill in the first place and he goes down extremely fast with the garrus/wrex combo previously mentioned.

It's a wash in my opinion - you lose squaddie DPS, but you also don't have to worry about the enemy healing or restoring shields for the duration. And locking down the elephant in the room (think Tonn Actus, or the Krogan BM on Liara's recruitment) lets your squad focus on the peanut gallery while simultaneously removing the biggest gun from the enemy side.

And for Mako enemies, e.g. Thresher Maws/Geth Colossi/Primes etc., the loss of dps isn't an issue, since you should be bringing them down to a sliver with the tank and finishing them off anyway. In this case, Stasis is more a way to hold them still for those last couple of shots on foot than a true battle tactic. A mobile thresher maw can still one-shot your team even at 5 HP after all, if you get unlucky.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 23 août 2010 - 04:49 .

[OniGanon]

Optimystic_X wrote...
the Krogan BM on Liara's recruitment

He doesn't normally attack you until he's the last enemy in the room anyway.

[IntrepidProdigy]

Optimystic_X wrote...

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

Actually, bastion stasis still doesn't compare to the arsenal that the nemesis vanguard has. When bastion stasis is activated, your squadmates stop firing at that enemy, thus losing valuable dps. Also, you can only get 1 person in bastion stasis at a time. Nemesis lift, or regular lift (maxed out) for that matter could disable sovereign/saren, If you mean the version of saren that was on the hoverboard, he wasn't that hard to kill in the first place and he goes down extremely fast with the garrus/wrex combo previously mentioned.

It's a wash in my opinion - you lose squaddie DPS, but you also don't have to worry about the enemy healing or restoring shields for the duration. And locking down the elephant in the room (think Tonn Actus, or the Krogan BM on Liara's recruitment) lets your squad focus on the peanut gallery while simultaneously removing the biggest gun from the enemy side.

And for Mako enemies, e.g. Thresher Maws/Geth Colossi/Primes etc., the loss of dps isn't an issue, since you should be bringing them down to a sliver with the tank and finishing them off anyway. In this case, Stasis is more a way to hold them still for those last couple of shots on foot than a true battle tactic. A mobile thresher maw can still one-shot your team even at 5 HP after all, if you get unlucky.

Trust me when I say the nemesis vanguard (plus garrus/wrex) can take out a colossus and thresher maw on insanity much faster than the mako can. All you need to do is place garrus/wrex far from the thresher maw and just side step it so that it's acid spit will continuously miss you. This combo will take down the maw while its on its 2nd or 3rd acid spit. Don't get me wrong, you do have to know when/where to place your squad in some missions, but once you use singularity/lift everything on insanity WILL die fast. Singularity/nemesis lift can lock down an entire room including ton  actus enabling you and your squad to just get into the middle of the room and literally decimate every enemy in almost lightening speed. Stasis can be useful, but when I played bastion adept, I found it to be more situational.

Edit: Using singularity at the very beginning of the fight with the krogan on Liara's recruitment  will catch every single enemy at once, allowing you and your squad to finish the fight literally as soon as it began.

Modifié par IntrepidProdigy, 23 août 2010 - 07:22 .

[Bozorgmehr]

No really big differences between Adept and Vanguard. Adept has Stasis and better cd and don't have to waste points in pistols to unlock SG - Vanguard has AT to reset cd to compensate the Adept's cd and can use medium armor. All in all a close call - but no clear winner. Here's what both classes can do on their own in ME1:

Solo ME1 Adept and Solo ME1 Vanguard

[Super ._. Shepard]

i liked the adepts singulatry picks up every thing in the room

[tonnactus]

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

Actually, bastion stasis still doesn't compare to the arsenal that the nemesis vanguard has. When bastion stasis is activated, your squadmates stop firing at that enemy, thus losing valuable dps.

You are right but still miss the point.The question of the thread is if vanguards are better biotics then the adept himself.
That implies the number(type) of enemies the vanguard/adept could control with his biotics.
And that fact remains: The vanguard has nothing in his arsenal that could freeze/control a thresher maw/flying saren and rocket drones/turrets.(hard to kill or not isnt the question)
So,the adept is still the biotic number one.
I think no one would seriusly question it that the vanguard kills faster with or without the squad.But this has nothing to do with the thread title.

Modifié par tonnactus, 23 août 2010 - 10:07 .

[tonnactus]

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

Edit: Using singularity at the very beginning of the fight with the krogan on Liara's recruitment  will catch every single enemy at once, allowing you and your squad to finish the fight literally as soon as it began.

The first thing you max is singularity? Because the krogan isnt affected by anything less then master.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

You are right but still miss the point.The question of the thread is if vanguards are better biotics then the adept himself.
That implies the number(type) of enemies the vanguard/adept could control with his biotics.
And that fact remains: The vanguard has nothing in his arsenal that could freeze/control a thresher maw/flying saren and rocket drones/turrets.(hard to kill or not isnt the question)
So,the adept is still the biotic number one.
I think no one would seriusly question it that the vanguard kills faster with or without the squad.But this has nothing to do with the thread title.

There are VERY FEW Maws in the game, who cares about Stasis if I can easily kill it just as fast without it? Flyers? Please, once again so few in the game it is not even relevant. Saren? You can easily convince him to shoot himself and then just Lift him as you please.

Fact is, Vanguard can use 2 Singularities, 2 Lifts, 2 Throws, 2 Warps much quicker than an Adept. Majority of the fights in the game do not even last that long. So it depends, is it better to cast biotics in rapid succession thus ending all fights pretty much right away or does Stasis make up for it? Don't get me wrong, I love Adept, but Vanguard is simply more powerful class and a better (as in more effective) biotic.

Modifié par Kronner, 23 août 2010 - 10:25 .

[Super ._. Shepard]

adpets do have more biotic powers