43 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...



Fact is, Vanguard can use 2 Singularities, 2 Lifts, 2 Throws, 2 Warps much quicker than an Adept.

The question of this thread is: Is the vanguard a better biotic then the adept.You seem define that as how fast the vanguard
could cast some biotic powers in succession. I define it which enemies both classes could affect.(didnt matter if they are hard to kill or not)
I could also say as a vanguard i rarely ever need adrenaline rush when i had lift and singularity maxed because i just cycle both things.First,singularity,then lift,and after lift duration ends,singularity is available again.No need for 2 singularities or lift.At the end,adrenaline burst only was used when an enemy damped my biotic abilities.

But the vanguard has absolutly no biotic power(crowd control,not debuff like warp) that could affect thresher maws,rocket drones and heavy rocket turrets.

So,the amount of crowd control the adept has is bigger then that of the vanguard.

Modifié par tonnactus, 23 août 2010 - 10:46 .

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

So,the amount of crowd control the adept has is bigger then that of the vanguard.

2 active Singularities are better than 1. Yes, Adept has Stasis to affect some special enemies, but considering how few of these enemies are in the game, I do not think it is enough to make up for the Adrenaline Rush ability. If you define the best biotic as the one with most biotic powers, then yes, Adept is the best.

Modifié par Kronner, 23 août 2010 - 11:07 .

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...


2 active Singularities are better than 1.

Where did you ever need 2 active singularities?
Cycling master lift and singularity was enough to keep people flying.

If you define the best biotic as the one with most biotic powers, then yes, Adept is the best.

Not most biotic powers.Most enemies affected by biotic powers.

[sinosleep]

I gotta go with the consensus on this one. Adrenaline Rush makes the vanguard superior.

[Mr_Raider]

Where stasis shines is against enemies that can't be lifted or singularized. Notably thresher maws, and gun turrets. They make those fights a lot easier. It's also very useful against assault drones.



What the adept has going for it is more powers on multiple cooldowns. Between, stasis, lift, throw and singularity, something is always out of cooldown. The vanguard has to cast AB which will rese all timers to 0 and sync them.

[Sailears]

I don't feel there is a clear answer to this age old question - just personal preference.

I preferred bastion adept for stasis, fast cooldowns, and less micromanaging with adrenaline burst.

[IntrepidProdigy]

tonnactus wrote...

You are right but still miss the point.The question of the thread is if vanguards are better biotics then the adept himself.
That implies the number(type) of enemies the vanguard/adept could control with his biotics.
And that fact remains: The vanguard has nothing in his arsenal that could freeze/control a thresher maw/flying saren and rocket drones/turrets.(hard to kill or not isnt the question)
So,the adept is still the biotic number one.
I think no one would seriusly question it that the vanguard kills faster with or without the squad.But this has nothing to do with the thread title.

Stasis is still a situational power, you will not be running into thresher maws all throughout the game, and you can still get close enough to the maw to warp it without it using its melee. The adept's only nitch is the faster cooldown (With bastion. You lose this advantage when taking nemesis), which is negligable compared to the vanguard (especially with adrenaline burst). You cannot just rule out the squad like they don't exist, not everyone is going to want to solo the game, even though it is possible with any class, bar engineer. Garrus has sabatoge/overload for for flying drones and flying saren, You also have your + wrex's warp (which still affects all synthetics). Drones usually just stay still anyway, and are easy targets. Also, remember that stasis only affects 1 enemy. If there's one drone, there's likely to be many more (moon mission). I would rather not sacrifice killing power for a very situational power which is only useful in rare situations.

[IntrepidProdigy]

tonnactus wrote...

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

Edit: Using singularity at the very beginning of the fight with the krogan on Liara's recruitment  will catch every single enemy at once, allowing you and your squad to finish the fight literally as soon as it began.

The first thing you max is singularity? Because the krogan isnt affected by anything less then master.

I thought this discussion was about both classes at lvl 60. If not, then even the adept wouldn't be able to use stasis consistently at that point.

[Neuzhelin]

Tonnactus, the question is: why waste points on statis, it is awful and makes the fights slower. Sure, if you can't circle around a thresher maw and fail at aiming when it comes to drones, it CAN be benefictial. Vanguard is better at: killing faster and surviving better with AR and medium armor. If you want to toy around with stasis, however, it is your personal preference.

Also, some mentioned shotgun, well pistol is better all around when maxed out as you can keep the power up all of the time with cooldown reduction items AND it has more dps.

It boggles my mind why people make everything harder then needed.

[Kronner]

Neuzhelin wrote...

Tonnactus, the question is: why waste points on statis, it is awful and makes the fights slower. Sure, if you can't circle around a thresher maw and fail at aiming when it comes to drones, it CAN be benefictial. Vanguard is better at: killing faster and surviving better with AR and medium armor. If you want to toy around with stasis, however, it is your personal preference.
Also, some mentioned shotgun, well pistol is better all around when maxed out as you can keep the power up all of the time with cooldown reduction items AND it has more dps.

Yes, pretty much what I think.

Neuzhelin wrote...
It boggles my mind why people make everything harder then needed.

Because some games are too easy so not everyone likes that and the player must make it more challenging him/her self by not using this or that ability etc. (for example Immunity in ME1)

Modifié par Kronner, 23 août 2010 - 06:12 .

[tonnactus]

Neuzhelin wrote...

Tonnactus, the question is: why waste points on statis, it is awful and makes the fights slower.

I dont care to finish fights as fast as possible.But to stasis a krogan warlord,warp him and shoot a carnage shot a the nearest distance possible in his face...(even melee him)
Thats is something i really enjoyed.Makes me feel really powerfull(childish,but who cares its a game and i have fun)

Sure, if you can't circle around a thresher maw and fail at aiming when it comes to drones, it CAN be benefictial. Vanguard is better at: killing faster and surviving better with AR and medium armor.

The difference between colossus light and medium armor isnt even worth to mention.Combining that with the regenrating barrier of a bastion the surviability of an adept isnt far worser then that of a vanguard.Medium only looks better.

Also, some mentioned shotgun, well pistol is better all around when maxed out as you can keep the power up all of the time with cooldown reduction items AND it has more dps.

Thats something that i never liked in the first game.That the pistol was the strongest weapon of all.Just strange,why even use other weapons aside from sniper.
I like shotguns.There were strong enough
And arent you the one that made a vid of a vanguard that used sniper rifles for charging?

[C Writer]

I know that sometimes, a Bastion statis can be handy, but is that really worth losing the ability to cast all your powers all over again (meaning that you use more biotic powers anyway) including marksman (which means you can virtually have it on indefinitely) and/or carnage, the ability to wear medium armour, losing some health, and potential shotgun training?

True, statis can freeze a few things that other powers can't, but unlike the other powers, it only affects one target, and you shouldn't have too much trouble with those few enemies anyway. I see why it could be useful situationly, but you lose a hell of a lot of stuff in doing so, and actually end up being able to use less what could potentially be three power usages - that is one for each of the adept's six powers plus a bonus if applicable (7), and two for each of the vanguard's powers plus two for a bonus if applicable (10).

In my eyes, one power which is inferior in most circumstances and only superior in a few circumstances that a lot of the time you shouldn't have too much of a problem with anyway, is not worth all that loss.

[The Spamming Troll]

i think you guys are generalizing how someone plays with a vanguard and adepts too much. not every adept goes bastion and not every vanguard goes shock trooper. 100% of this argument relies on playstyle. theres no defined answer in my opinion so arguing semantics over what playstyle is better is meaningless.



ive played alot of ME1 with alot of sentinels, adepts and vangaurds and i never had a problem mainly because of master marksman and singularity. any class that doesnt go master marksman is a worse off class and any biotic that doesnt take singularity is a worse off biotic. im slightly more in favor of the vangaurd. even though i might not be able to bastion stasis a maw or a drone, ill never be worried about not having biotics because of AR. if you can argue stasis has its situations you can easily argue when AR is just as valuable. add the fact that my pistol, armor, and "biotic rotation" will be superior to the adepts, youd almost be a fool not to go vangaurd.



as a matter of fact my ultimate ME1 character is a nemesis vanguard with singularity, although i dont put any poiints into armor. i invest em all im my pistol, biotics and spectre training. call me crazy but i think thats the best biotic in ME1.



although the sniper rifle with HE rounds is ****ing awesome on the adept.

[IntrepidProdigy]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

as a matter of fact my ultimate ME1 character is a nemesis vanguard with singularity, although i dont put any poiints into armor. i invest em all im my pistol, biotics and spectre training. call me crazy but i think thats the best biotic in ME1.
.

Agreed 100%. More powerful biotics, a slightly more powerful MM pistol (both via the nemesis bonus), and the right squad make-up make the vanguard the most efficient class at killing all enemies the quickest.

[The Spamming Troll]

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

as a matter of fact my ultimate ME1 character is a nemesis vanguard with singularity, although i dont put any poiints into armor. i invest em all im my pistol, biotics and spectre training. call me crazy but i think thats the best biotic in ME1.
.

Agreed 100%.

im gonna print this page and put it on my fridge.

[C Writer]

Well, I'm glad you like it. I'd like to thank you all for all the responses. So, most people prefer the vanguard then? Would that still be so if they didn't have any of their extra combat talents (except adrelanine burst)?

[Neuzhelin]

tonnactus wrote...

Neuzhelin wrote...

Tonnactus, the question is: why waste points on statis, it is awful and makes the fights slower.

I dont care to finish fights as fast as possible.But to stasis a krogan warlord,warp him and shoot a carnage shot a the nearest distance possible in his face...(even melee him)
Thats is something i really enjoyed.Makes me feel really powerfull(childish,but who cares its a game and i have fun)

Sure, if you can't circle around a thresher maw and fail at aiming when it comes to drones, it CAN be benefictial. Vanguard is better at: killing faster and surviving better with AR and medium armor.

The difference between colossus light and medium armor isnt even worth to mention.Combining that with the regenrating barrier of a bastion the surviability of an adept isnt far worser then that of a vanguard.Medium only looks better.

Also, some mentioned shotgun, well pistol is better all around when maxed out as you can keep the power up all of the time with cooldown reduction items AND it has more dps.

Thats something that i never liked in the first game.That the pistol was the strongest weapon of all.Just strange,why even use other weapons aside from sniper.
I like shotguns.There were strong enough
And arent you the one that made a vid of a vanguard that used sniper rifles for charging?

Well as you pointed out, you like to toy around with controlled mobs, a personal preference. I prefer fast paced gameplay and now that you mentioned my sniper rifle charging video in my signature, it is no different. Fast paced gameplay with an alternative gameplay showing what is possible but hardly what is most viable. Same goes to your preference of the shotgun, you like it for the visual reasons and the concept that you would like it to be more powerful then a pistol even if it is not.

As for barrier in ME1, I find it useless. Not worth investing more then 1 point now that you mention endgame. I can see the use of it right in the beginning but that is also where medium armor shines. There are rarely tough situations in ME1 and those come from direct health damage (rachni comes to mind). Even if you can't keep the shields up, there are 2xshield boosts from adrenaline rush.

Bottom line is, ME1 is so simple you can waste points on abilities for the sake of variety and roleplaying instead of usefulness and damage and if that makes your gaming experience, go for it. Yet, that is not the point of this thread.

[The Spamming Troll]

barrier only becomes useless the more you played ME1. my first few characters all put 12 points into armor even my adepts went 12 in armor and 12 in barrier. even your second play through is exponentially easier then your first run through because you know whats going to happen and you can take the appropriate squadmates or bonus abilities.

the whole problem with this argument is that even tho we all have the same biotics, we just dont use them the same way. back to my first ME1 playthrough, i only used biotics defensively, like for charging krogans or thresher maws. it took me a long time to realize biotics can be used offensively too. most likely because i was new to RPGs and spell casting games instead of just playing game where i just shoot people in the face with shotguns. but my point is one class isnt going to be the hands down "best biotic" because we all most likely play them different ways. i only have one friend that plays ME who i can watch play so seeing some of the vids in here with people laying waste with vanguards or adepts really shows the level or direction you may or may not want to take with biotics.

i really liked the adept for 75% of the time ive had ME1 but it took me a long time to realize what i could do with biotics, and from how i play ME1, theres nothing that compares to the vanguard in terms of using biotics effectively as well as being a class with awesome pistol damage and if you so choose, great defensive abilities. the adept essentially only has bastion stasis, which is great and all, but my problem is that wrex never leaves my side and if i need someone frozen, he can do the job. theres too much to put into it.

all i know is the adept might not be the best biotic in ME2 and the soldier might be the best. im still confused about singularities effectiveness and the fact that a soldier with slam is just as "biotic" as a sentinel or vangaurd.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 24 août 2010 - 11:02 .

[C Writer]

On reflection, I must say that what you say about biotics has held mostly true by me. Oh, and thanks for mentioning Wrex; the fact that he also had statis slipped my mind (although admittidly, it isn't a Bastian one).