162 réponses à ce sujet

[Archereon]

*Sigh...*

While all of us hoped that this wouldn't happen, and Bioware tried to reassure us it wouldn't, it looks like the dialogue wheel and the voiced protagonist is going to kill the roleplaying factor in Dragon Age, by giving us a choice between only 3 personalities: 

Parag-err, Chivalrous (did a few, seemed boring), a d*ckhead deadpan snarker ("sarcastic" Hawke, I like this one best, he has more of a personality then neutral Shepard), and renega-err, mean Hawke...(I only tried one of those, can't really say how he works.)

Now I went with the snarker mostly, but took some other options on ocassion.  Unfortunately, it seems, just like Shepard, going against your personality makes you sound incredibly out of character.  Another significant gripe is that the symbols that represent Hawke's "personality" in the chosen response don't seem to tell you what he's actually going to DO (which was the whole point of them if I recall).  Now the demo didn't have any situations where I expected Hawke to yell at someone, and instead he says "You talk to much" and slits their throat, but the potential for that to happen seems very real.




(TL;DR): In short, the "olive branch, jester mask, and fist" represent Hawke's 3 possible personalities, rather than what he's going to do.  Going against them sounds out of character.


So from here, it seems that Dragon Age II is going to be more of a "rent it first" game, then a "buy it at once game"

Modifié par Archereon, 22 août 2010 - 02:52 .

[Rapidiul]

Dosh

[Jenaimarre]

Wasn't there a post by Gaider saying that only that specific dialogue wheel had three options?

[Archereon]

Jenaimarre wrote...

Wasn't there a post by Gaider saying that only that specific dialogue wheel had three options?

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong and I misinterpreted what I saw.


Didn't see that post though.

Modifié par Archereon, 22 août 2010 - 02:48 .

[Brockololly]

So you played it at Gamescom, I take it? I know the writers have said there will be more than just the 3 "emotions" you mentioned, but I'm curious how it actually plays out over the course of the game....

[biomag]

Right, because the Warden wasn't the same... you had 10 different answers each time...





The point is, you can mix them. This are just sentences and even if Hawke continues to use the mood for automatic answers, this doesn't mean you have to do it. Make a character and stick to it, not to the symbols. I ain't the whole day an ass, neither am I mostly kind. Depending on the situation at hand I react differently and I dare to make a wild guess, everybody else does the same... so why does Hawke to stay either paragon, sarcastic or renegade? Just because you can't imagine using a different answer and play the role in that certain situation?

[Jenaimarre]

http://social.biowar...91&lf=8#3177121



There you go!

[Archereon]

Brockololly wrote...

So you played it at Gamescom, I take it? I know the writers have said there will be more than just the 3 "emotions" you mentioned, but I'm curious how it actually plays out over the course of the game....

Well, there wasn't enough talking in the demo to get a good idea if that's going to be throughout the game, but it seemed to be very similar to mass effect: 3 or so options to progress the conversation, maybe some investigates thrown in.

My main grip is that when I chose a different option than what I'd been rolling with, it sounded out of character.

[Aradace]

Well, maybe it'll be a renter for you...But dont assume everyone is going to go the same way. Now admittedly, Im still on the fence as to whether or not Im going to get this game or not. But not because of the demo. Nope...For me, the only way Ill be actually BUYING DA2 and not RENTING it is if there is a New Game Plus option. And for those against the idea: You know you dont HAVE to choose the NG+ option if its there right? You can just start over from scratch like any other game if you so choose? This way, the players that want it there, can have it, and those that dont, can just start over from scratch each time.

[Kairi Hawke]

that was only a demo and there will be more emotions pretty sure gaider said.

[biomag]

Archereon wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So you played it at Gamescom, I take it? I know the writers have said there will be more than just the 3 "emotions" you mentioned, but I'm curious how it actually plays out over the course of the game....

Well, there wasn't enough talking in the demo to get a good idea if that's going to be throughout the game, but it seemed to be very similar to mass effect: 3 or so options to progress the conversation, maybe some investigates thrown in.

My main grip is that when I chose a different option than what I'd been rolling with, it sounded out of character.

Same would have happened playing the DA:O system. Most situations  (=nearly all, except for those you had an additional origin answer or simple questions) you had the exactly same 3 options at hand (as in each and every game), just without a symbole or a wheel. So please, where is the difference? Because its voiced?

[Archereon]

Jenaimarre wrote...

http://social.biowar...91&lf=8#3177121

There you go!

But do all five of those options progress the conversation?  From what I've seen, possibley not.


Biomag: Not necessarily, but in Origins, the lack of a voiced protagonist removed the logistical necesity to create overly distinct personalities for the responses, it didn't sound out of character for a whight knightish Warden in DA:O to crack a joke with alastair now and again. 

Modifié par Archereon, 22 août 2010 - 02:58 .

[Tleining]

uh, how is this different from Origins? When we first meet the King, we can be nice (what an honor to meet you), neutral (greetings), or "evil" (i don't give a f... about you/your opinion). The only difference, the character is voiced and we don't know exactly what Hawke is going to say. Big deal.

[SirShreK]

Aye. I don't understand why we can't have the dialogue system in DA:O AND a VA.

[Archereon]

Tleining wrote...

uh, how is this different from Origins? When we first meet the King, we can be nice (what an honor to meet you), neutral (greetings), or "evil" (i don't give a f... about you/your opinion). The only difference, the character is voiced and we don't know exactly what Hawke is going to say. Big deal.

DA:O You can choice the "FU KING CALIAN" option, and not sound extremely out of character.

[biomag]

SirShreK wrote...

Aye. I don't understand why we can't have the dialogue system in DA:O AND a VA.

Is the wheel such a difference? I couldn't care less how its presented as long as its well arranged.

[andar91]

We already know that the responses are more than just good, bad, and neutral. The demo just makes it look that way. However, every game I've ever played where you can choose your responses basically boils down to those three responses with occasional variation. The only difference with this is that it's voiced, but there isn't any kind of morality meter or anything.

[SirShreK]

biomag wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Aye. I don't understand why we can't have the dialogue system in DA:O AND a VA.

Is the wheel such a difference? I couldn't care less how its presented as long as its well arranged.

Well..  I don't want to kill someone just because they stole my candy.

[Alexia89]

biomag wrote...

Right, because the Warden wasn't the same... you had 10 different answers each time...

Max of 6 just like DA2, alot of DAO had the same reaction from the NPC anyway

[biomag]

Archereon wrote...

Tleining wrote...

uh, how is this different from Origins? When we first meet the King, we can be nice (what an honor to meet you), neutral (greetings), or "evil" (i don't give a f... about you/your opinion). The only difference, the character is voiced and we don't know exactly what Hawke is going to say. Big deal.

DA:O You can choice the "FU KING CALIAN" option, and not sound extremely out of character.

Then maybe the voiceacting is bad? Maybe it makes too big differences between those three answers. Shepard didn't had that problem (although like Gaider said, its easier to make the voice fit a military officer than completely different personalities).



@SirShrek: A stolen candy is a huge loss! Death they deserve!

Modifié par biomag, 22 août 2010 - 03:05 .

[Kyenne]

Alexia89 wrote...

biomag wrote...

Right, because the Warden wasn't the same... you had 10 different answers each time...

Max of 6 just like DA2, alot of DAO had the same reaction from the NPC anyway

Yep, and in DAO, sometimes some of the slots would be taken up by questions. Keeping questions on a separate "investigate" hub means more of the slots can be used for personality options.

OP: How many times were you able to pick dialogue options in the (15-minute, I believe) demo? I'm curious as to how you could tell that picking different options might make Hawke sound "out of character" from such a short demo.

[Apollo Starflare]

I'd veer towards the thought that judging the way the conversation and personality system works on a large scale based solely upon that demo isn't a good idea. David Gaider has gone into some detail about how you can have your character's dialogue change depending on your dominant personality. So if you use the snarky middle ground a lot it will quickly become the norm even for other options with the exception of certain situations where a dialogue choice has a fairly obvious sound to it (be it noble or evil) which is no different to Origins. A snarky fellow can occasionally say something in a noble or evil tone should the course of action being suggested warrants it afterall.



But yeah, best to just read DG's posts on the subject. I'm not worried, it sounds a lot better than the ME system.

[Tleining]

@ Archereon

O_O okay, so as a CityElf, who treated Duncan with Respect, walking up to the King and telling him to f. off is "in-character"? Seems kinda extreme to me.

[Magus_42]

Sounds like he's saying that if you mix in a "saracastic" in the middle of a serious of "serious" responses, or whatever, that the two sound clips don't flow together in a natural way and it makes the dialog sound fake. It wouldn't take much time to see that happening. Mass Effect occasionally has this problem too, but since you generally go all-paragon or all-renegade in ME to drive up the corresponding scores, you probably don't see it that often. DA:O allowed for a little more freedom of choice, and I hope that DA2 doesn't reduce role playing to just picking the same icon over and over.



My biggest concern with the new system is that it has a memory, that spans multiple conversations. If you're a jerk most of the time, but try to be diplomatic for one conversation, you'll probably still get the jerk response for the action choices on the wheel, even if it makes no sense in context. This sounds potentially very jarring, although I haven't had a chance to see it in action.