205 réponses à ce sujet

[Eguintir Eligard]

Another point about DA toolset that was not mentioned.



Interior rooms are definable in size, not fixed to a tileset size.



For example I can have a really skinny room only fit for a bedroll and a foot of walking space, or one that more closely matches nwn2s standard squares, or one bigger and in varying shapes. The modelling is all for the most part in pieces in DA so you can control exactly how the house will look like, rather than just paint a house. This may slow you down at first but its increased control and you can of course make a template from the house once its made. And use existing ones.

[-Semper-]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

These are my two areas. I'm not sure what is a bug and what is me not knowing how to light worth a s*t I was going to post and ask why shadows seem excessive for an outdoor area.

i've just marked the obvious ones.

[Hellfire_RWS]

-Semper- wrote...

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

These are my two areas. I'm not sure what is a bug and what is me not knowing how to light worth a s*t I was going to post and ask why shadows seem excessive for an outdoor area.

i've just marked the obvious ones.

I ahve to say. I have never worked in the DAO toolset, but had you not circled them, I would never have noticed.  Looks like standard DA graphics to me.

If you dont mind me asking, what makes the lighting a problem?  Does it flicker in game or something?

[Eguintir Eligard]

My god Shallina the more you post the lest people think of you honestly. I specifically said you can add custom classes all you want but the base line collection is smaller, lowering your sense of requiring huge amounts of considerations. But you read what you want you spew what you want anyway. I'm done with you, its like talking to a parrot.
I think its pretty clear that I despise the nwn2 toolset at this point but you don't hear me telling people DA is spotless and flawless and anyone says otherwise is either not good at modding, doesn't know what they are talking about, or so stupid that they bought into marketing ploys, as you have been. Give me a break. You haven't even released any work that I can see. And here you are lambasting a community for not releasing a module in a year. What have you released in how long you've been at nwn2?

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 05 septembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[-Semper-]

Hellfire_RWS wrote...

I ahve to say. I have never worked in the DAO toolset, but had you not circled them, I would never have noticed.  Looks like standard DA graphics to me.

If you dont mind me asking, what makes the lighting a problem?  Does it flicker in game or something?

dunno how someone can overlook them, maybe it's just my view being way too perfectionist. the fact is i can't stand them^^

no, they are just their. this example is a very low noise but there is a chance that it will become more worse. take a look at the screens i provided some posts ago and you should notice the huge lack in quality. i know that this is just a matter of taste but if that's the best quality you can get out of da:o's toolset then it just reaches not my standards.

there are other bugs with the lightmapper causing bigger problems but it all sums up to a more or less "unusable" product and that's sad. i love da:o and the lore and i hated to stop my mod but it punches me too hard seeing those awesome levels drowning in this pile of s**t eclipse ray produces

Modifié par -Semper-, 05 septembre 2010 - 04:51 .

[Challseus]

-Semper- wrote...

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

These are my two areas. I'm not sure what is a bug and what is me not knowing how to light worth a s*t I was going to post and ask why shadows seem excessive for an outdoor area.

i've just marked the obvious ones.

My god, man, you've sure got an eye for these things!

[AndarianTD]

I also don't see the reduced number of standard classes as a limiting factor; in fact, I feel it actually helps modders by reducing the complexity of the mods they create.

I strongly agree here. I've always felt that the D&D ruleset was too involved and cumbersome and tended to "get in the way" rather than facilitate good story-driven role-playing. If what you're into is game mechanics and "roll-playing" that's fine, but I'm more interested in focusing on telling a story. A more streamlined ruleset is fine for my needs.

The same is true of the lack of multiplayer; modders don't have to feel obligated to make sure their mod will work in multiplayer.

I've never felt the need to do that, and made a very deliberate decision to make my mods SP-only. There are things that you can do to make a module a more exceptional SP experience that you can't really do well if you try to make it multiplayer compatible, and DA's toolset is largely built around those features (such as tight dramatic control). If you haven't been trying to do that kind of thing you might not miss it or realize how important it can be to story-driven SP modding, but I definitely have and do.

[Eguintir Eligard]

To be honest, if anything was wrong in my screenshot if you asked, me it was just that the table and chairs look too bright, as if they lack something shadow wise.



This lighting may indeed be a flaw, but the graphics improvement over nwn2 if you ask me, is like the graphics improvment of nwn2 over nwn1. Its hard to go back once you've seen the new models. I LOVE the way they oilpant the far distance; it honestly is like opening up a pop up story book.

[kamalpoe]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

I LOVE the way they oilpant the far distance; it honestly is like opening up a pop up story book.

Is your exterior an example of that? I've been working on some interesting environmental light effects, doing things like "graphic novel" (reduced detail with high contrast), oilpainting like my loadscreen pack was on my list to try to achieve, though I may be thinking of oilpaint in a different manner than you.

/I tried google image search, but they seem to only feature close up shots.

Modifié par kamalpoe, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:05 .

[Challseus]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

My god Shallina the more you post the lest people think of you honestly. I specifically said you can add custom classes all you want but the base line collection is smaller, lowering your sense of requiring huge amounts of considerations. But you read what you want you spew what you want anyway. I'm done with you, its like talking to a parrot. I think its pretty clear that I despise the nwn2 toolset at this point but you don't hear me telling people DA is spotless and flawless and anyone says otherwise is either not good at modding, doesn't know what they are talking about, or so stupid that they bought into marketing ploys. Give me a break. You haven't even released any work that I can see. Your opinion based on your comments is worth less than nothing.

Ya, I can't believe I got dragged back into this argument. I've seen this movie, and already know how it ends. I submit into evidence:

The Future of NWN2 (part 2?) - DAO/NWN2 comparison thread
The Future of NWN2 (part 3) - DAO/NWN2 comparison thread

In damn near 48 pages over 2 threads, Shallina would constantly:

- pass of his/her ideas of what is good/bad as gospel
- not directly respond to posters that prove him/her wrong
- lots of other annoying things that caused a mod of 2 to come in to simmer him/her down

Some things never change.

Modifié par Challseus, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:22 .

[Shallina]

You are asking id there a point continuing to mod with NWN2?

I gave you the 3 main reason that doesn't make DAO the successor but something different.

For those that need those 3 feature, DAO isn't an option.

But some project need feature only availlable on DAO. (Powerfull Cutscene tool for exemple), that's the line beetween beeing an evolution or beeing something different. A thing that you seems to not understand.

Are you in shock that DAO doesn't provide somme of the main feature of  NWN2 or NWN1 ?

You are telling the PW team that they are silly to work with something else than DAO ?  You should open your eyes and see your question.

Your question is : Is there a point modding for NWN2 ?

And the answer is : As long as DAO won't have those 3 major feature wich are in NWN2, DAO won't be able to replace NWN2 for the people who need them.

Modifié par Shallina, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

Here's something people should know for SURE.



The level creation (the terraining, rise/lower, static object placeable portion of DA) has the most butt-tastic controls ever. I can't even work them to this day worth a hell. That's something I'd like to see fixed by whoever and whatever can fix it.

[ladydesire]

Shallina wrote...

First time i hear that having less choice = better. Must be a
die hard fan to say something like this

If it was to speak about a product that wasn't from Bioware,
are you sure you'd use it that way ?

It's when you read things like that,  that you understand the
power that marketting can have on poeple.

What marketing? I don't watch TV and mostly hang out on modding forums, so "Marketing" isn't it.

Having more than 3 class doesn't change what you have to do
when you are making a mod... That's the truth. Having only 3
class is just limiting player option. One of the benefit of using
a toolset like the one from NWN1, NWN2 or DAO is to have a
combat system al ready in place. And for your information you
can limit the player in wich class he can select with whatever
toolset.

So the argument that having only 3 class make the modder
life easier, is one of the crazyest one ever seen, it make no
sense at all.

Yes, you can limit what classes are used in NWN and NWN2, but it's a lot more time-consuming to do, so most module makers don't bother doing it; don't forget that I modded NWN2 for several years, so I know how things work.

OR perhaps next bioware game should have only one creature
, it will will make thing easier for mod maker. They won't have
to choose from any creature , always the same one, and then
problem solved. Only one class as well, it's easier. And only
one level !!! See what  I mean ?

Less option are nevers a good thing.

When most options are just different ways of doing the same thing (how many different versions of Fighter or Mage do you really need?), or they don't fit in the lore (Cleric/Favored Soul anyone) why should Bioware put them in; if modders want them, they can add them (and someone did, in fact).

If it was obsidian who did half of what Bioware did with the DA
toolset, you'd be flamming all over the place. I do not care
about a compagny label, when I work with it only things that
count is what I can do with it. And the DAO toolset is for now
seriously lacking in many department.

And to those doing someting serious with that toolset Good
luck, I can't wait to play with your work. So I hope you'd be
successfull.

As I said a lot, DAO and NWN2 are doing different thing.
DAO isn't more powerfull it is different, the choice of taking
one over the other depend on what you want to do.

I gave you the reason that made that DAO isn't going to
replace NWN2, and why NWN2 will continue.  That are the
feature that DAO is missing to becomme the successor.

Tevinter Warden class

If you're referring to multiplayer, Bioware clearly doesn't agree that it is a feature that makes a significant positive impact on the bottom line or they would have done it.

[Shallina]

It take less than 15 minuttes to limit the class selection if you know how to script For the whole campaign And I am sure it's the same for the 3 toolset .  And it's not really time consuming since it is a one shot work.

Actually many mod have done it. You download one, take the script,  adapt it to your need, and use it.

So defending that feature with
"Yes, you can limit what classes are used in NWN and NWN2, but it's a lot more time-consuming to do, so most module makers don't bother doing it; don't forget that I modded NWN2 for several years, so I know how things work." makes you all the more silly


Bioware can say whatever they wants about MP.

But those that enjoy PW and want to do PW or multiplayer mod, aren't going to say : PRISE BIOWARE !!!!!! LET S ALL DO ONLY SINGLE PLAYER MOD for NOW ! and forget about MP.

Bioware say what they wants, but those who wants to do MP gaming wil chose a product that allow them to do it. And for that reason DAO isn't an option for them.

Modifié par Shallina, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:23 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

Lady Desire you really need to stop feeding this kid. The fact that there is less classes is that the community has less expectation of what your module should cover was my true point, complaining that you have to do the work to limit thim isn't really a flaw and now you've given fuel to the fire.

[Eguintir Eligard]

woops

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:30 .

[ladydesire]

Shallina wrote...

You are asking id there a point continuing to mod with NWN2?

I gave you the 3 main reason that doesn't make DAO the
successor but something different.

For those that need those 3 feature, DAO isn't an option.

But some project need feature only availlable on DAO. (
Powerfull Cutscene tool for exemple), that's the line beetween
beeing an evolution or beeing something different. A thing
that you seems to not understand.

Are you in shock that DAO doesn't provide somme of the main
feature of  NWN2 or NWN1 ?

You are telling the PW team that they are silly to work with
something else than DAO ?  You should open your eyes and
see your question.

Your question is : Is there a point modding for NWN2 ?

And the answer is : As long as DAO won't have those 3 major
feature wich are in NWN2, DAO won't be able to replace NWN2
for the people who need them.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that DA isn't a choice for those that want to create content for online play; what we are disagreeing with is your consistent insistence that MP is something that is needed for any game to have a long-lasting modding and player community, which I've pointed out is quite false.

[Shallina]

A community over the internet is something that is online. A community isn't a single person, and gaming community love to be able to play together. For a gamming community beeing able to play together is more important than watching silly achievement on a social site. So they tend to focus on product that allow them to play together.

For your information, the "hot editor" today isn't DAO or NWN2, it's the SC2 editor so if what you want is the largest andience possible, that's where you need to go.

The limiting factor of DAO aren't limited to online play. So the choice isn't restricted to (SP -> DAO , MP-> NWN2)
There are many SP project that aren't possible with the DAO toolset as well.

Eguintir, DAO might be able to relieve you about some of your trouble with the NWN2 toolset. But don't be fooled, you'll have other one. NWN2 today is really "clean", DAO is new without any update. So if you are working with it be ready to face trouble.

Modifié par Shallina, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:48 .

[kamalpoe]

Please stop Shallina. Then this thread can end like it should have long, long ago.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Kamal here is my screen shot. If you dont have a save, ostagar is a long time to get to and it was a huge pain to find, and now I can only find it at night. BUt I think this will work:


http://img97.imagesh...422/oilpant.jpg

Notice how the eye is drawn immediately to the mountain and the bottom trees when observing the backdrop. The trees dont have hard lines and detail; just a smudge of brown, green and light green. The mountain is similar; the edges are rounded and the colors bleed together.

This is money in the bank for the type of vibe I like my module to have. If you have Irfan view to edit your load screens, you woul simply browse the filters and choose oilpaint to get a similar effect if not identical. Even on the right, the building is starting to lose its hard eges and resemble a pre-rendered portrait, like an infinity game. I <3 this feature.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:47 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

Another DA feature that is a non feature in NWN2:



controllable wind. You can actually set how fast and where things blow, the grass, trees, some vfx etc. Sorry to keep one offing these but these subtle details that are huge leaps keep showing up.

[Shallina]

Eguintir that a point I actually don't like. The first time I walked there, I saw all the fine building and characters, and I saw those sad three below and poor texturing on the ground and mountain in order to not melt the XBOX.

The result is artificial. You have the building, the character, you are in ferelden, you look bellow, and you see that you aren't in Ferelden at all beceause all look really fake. But this is something a modder could correct I think.

Modifié par Shallina, 05 septembre 2010 - 05:55 .

[kamalpoe]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

Kamal here is my screen shot. If you dont have a save, ostagar is a long time to get to and it was a huge pain to find, and now I can only find it at night. BUt I think this will work:


http://img97.imagesh...422/oilpant.jpg

Notice how the eye is drawn immediately to the mountain and the bottom trees when observing the backdrop. The trees dont have hard lines and detail; just a smudge of brown, green and light green. The mountain is similar; the edges are rounded and the colors bleed together.

This is money in the bank for the type of vibe I like my module to have. If you have Irfan view to edit your load screens, you woul simply browse the filters and choose oilpaint to get a similar effect if not identical. Even on the right, the building is starting to lose its hard eges and resemble a pre-rendered portrait, like an infinity game. I <3 this feature.

Yeah that works as a screenshot, I can clearly see the oil effect on the mountains. The screens I had found were more of a blur effect.

//I use gimp to do my oilifying.
screen 1 and
screen 2

[Eguintir Eligard]

If you just back off the oil effect intensity it ends up like the ostagar (and all of DA) distance. I don't know how many people are this old but its like those early VGA (256 color) games where the background was really intensively artistic, but it was static of course. Myst, Space quest series, etc.