205 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellfire_RWS]

dethia wrote...

JasonNH wrote...

Shallina wrote...
For now with dao there is a lot of "it's not" hence the lack of anithing major coming out. The toolset have a second rate ligning mapper, for anyone willing to do new area wich look like a proffessional one, it's a "no".

Although I share Semper's frustration at times with the lightmapper, I can't just let this statement go. Honestly, I very much enjoy making areas in both NWN2 and DA so I have no interest in being a champion for one over the other. But DA is certainly capable of producing results that are on par or above NWN2's capabilities as far as areas are concerned. Here's a quick screen grab from a WIP of something I was working on just tonight. I realize I am a bit biased, but I don't see any showstopper here for producing professional looking content (even if very amateur professional)

360x255http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu292/JasonNH/Dragon%20Age/Mage%20of%20the%20Blood/River%20Ford/mbcfroadshdw3.jpg[/IMG]

Is that dao or nwn2, as it looks like nwn2 ;/ but I'm pretty sure it's DAO.  Also you again ignore what Shalina has said that the lighter doesn't work well in INTERIOR areas not exterior, though I don't even see any lighting effects but I'm not a pro-like that, hence why.

It is definately DAO, NWN2 can not get that kind of resoultion in the ground mesh (note the wagon tracks in the road)

In NWN2 you would have to do that with color shading only

[Eguintir Eligard]

Isnt the armor model and sword on the back a dead give away?

[Hellfire_RWS]

No, thats doable in NWN2, but not with a mod.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Well i have to say, isn't the issue what the community does, not what the engine can do. Dragon age does not have a monopoly on that.



Improved textures are being done by project Q and peachykeen has done shaders for NWN1 which improve NWN1 considerably. It looks like folks are modding DA, adding new things and correcting things the devs forgot or designed from the get go to be more limited. They might even add MP support to the game.



As time goes on, the DA community will evolve from nudie mods, to doing classes, modules, models, areas, spells, and probably new game mechanics. Right now they don't know what they are doing yet and are just experimenting and learning, just like NWN2 was when it was just starting out. I'd suspect you have the clothing removal mod first, and likely about now you will start seeing new creatures popping up, and as the community learns what they make will move beyond the amateur script kiddy creations.



However nothing about that will mean NWN1, NWN2, or even Baldurs Gate or TOEE is dead, each is well worth modding and developing for. I kind of see it as silly to "only" work on a game because it's popular or the latest and greatest, by the time the community really gets it's act together a game is going to be a bit dated. Really the less flaws a game has to begin with, the less need there is for the community to fix those flaws. Ideally we could just buy a game and have it work how we want, it's our knowing it can be better that drives us. Usually though a texture upgrade ( which is pretty common from what i've seen ) happens many years after release after the game is really dated.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Lol how did BG get involved in this? Baldurs gate not dead? If you count a skeleton group of holdouts as all thats required for something to be "alive" then every game in existence has an alive community because you fan find some fans webpage in google.

I like your reference but it is funny to me.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[kamalpoe]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Usually though a texture upgrade ( which is pretty common from what i've seen ) happens many years after release after the game is really dated.

They didn't use great textures everywhere, for instance this tent. DAO texture So someone stepped up.

Here's some screens from a mod similar to that DAO pc walking down the road posted (not mine)
walking through the forest
forest road

/how do you do the inline pics anyway?

Modifié par kamalpoe, 07 septembre 2010 - 05:30 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

texture upgrades do not equate to new vertex counts sadly

[Hellfire_RWS]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

Lol how did BG get involved in this? Baldurs gate not dead? If you count a skeleton group of holdouts as all thats required for something to be "alive" then every game in existence has an alive community because you fan find some fans webpage in google.

I like your reference but it is funny to me.

No funnier than some random number people want to pull out of their behinds to declare a community dead, but I can see your point about BG.

[The Fred]

BG is very much alive, because while it's community might be pretty small, it's one of the few games I know where people actually go back and re-play it often (replaying it with some mods myself right now). How many people actually finished either the NWN or NWN2 OCs? How many times have you played DA? For a game which had *no* official toolset or modding tools of any kind, there are some pretty awesome mods for it, too.



If people still mod BG, people will sure as hell still mod NWN2 (hence the reference).

[Eguintir Eligard]

If people still mod BG, people will sure as hell still mod NWN2 (hence the reference).



You lost me there. They are not mutually dependant.



I don't know what number you are on about Hellfire I haven't see any in this thread, lets just say when people are fiercely convincing everyone their community is not dead, and the only people around to hear are the same people, its dead to me.

[painofdungeoneternal]

That is no different than someone coming on and declaring a community dead. You cannot on one hand tell him he is wrong and declare the opposite, basically based on your opinion regardless of any facts. You also seem to think quantity is all that is important. All i can tell is you either are unaware of, or you choose to ignore what is being done, this community is very active with a lot of large projects in process.

Frankly if you look at the vault, the content RWS and hellfire has done alone outnumbers what a lot of other communities of far more popular games have in total. As long as a few key individuals keep working at the game, the modding is not going anywhere, nor will the community die.

You can have a few thousand script kiddies swapping textures, tweaking game config files, and removing all the clothing on the characters, and stating how they added things which are frankly trivial on one game, and a single person with real talent can outdo all of them by releasing major revisions to the game itself.

Now how on earth do you say this community is even near being dead. Well if it's dead then it's a zombie game cuz there are lot of dead things still moving around and a lot of people telling you, you got your facts wrong.

If you want to measure how dead a community is, go look at what the community is releasing, and look at the quality of it. See how much game play value it adds. Go on IRC and ask people what they are working on. See the last date it was released and look at how many are still working on things for this game. Look at the upcoming modules which are nearing release, and look at how often "major" obstacles in the game are over come by the community.

Obviously a game as old as Baldur's gate will not have a lot going on at this point, but it's still got a few modders who know it, who are doing content for it, which makes it still playable. Those few you disparage as hanging on, are the community for that game, and as long as they are discovering new things they can rework in the game, baldur's gate will keep going on.

And if one single person does a great module, which happens to be better than the campaign released by the devs. Well then one single person is all you need to keep the community from being dead, and it gives everyone who wants to play it reasons to do so. That is far different than a web page, that is real new content you can use to keep getting value from a game.

Frankly i see no point for myself in modding Dragon Age. It's far more limited, it's only for single player, it's tied to Dragon Age lore, it's got far fewer options than D&D and while it has many advantages, it's toolset and how you mod it just is not good enough for me to leave NWN2, frankly until a lot of major issues are sorted out, i can do more things in NWN2 since even the engine itself can be rewritten as we see fit. The improved models just don't look better to me than what Hellfire is doing.

Come back and tell me when the DA community is capable of doing complete models and animations, has as many classes as NWN2's base game, and is capable of doing multiplayer games, and has something similar to NWNx for adding new features to the core of the game. All of this can be done for Dragon Age, but it's already much more developed for NWN2. Unlike Dragon Age, NWN2 does what i need it to do ( but that is just my opinion ) and the NWN2 community works very well together.

[ladydesire]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...


 to doing classes, modules, models, areas, spells, and probably new game mechanics. .

Just because the "nudie mods" exist doesn't mean that the rest of these haven't been done yet; I have one of the first classes that was added to Dragon Age, and I've seen plenty of new spells, modules, models etc... There are even mods that have revamped the combat system to the preferences of some members of the community; I'd probably use Combat Tweaks if the author wouldn't use the override folder for his content.

[BigfootNZ]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

If people still mod BG, people will sure as hell still mod NWN2 (hence the reference).

You lost me there. They are not mutually dependant.

I don't know what number you are on about Hellfire I haven't see any in this thread, lets just say when people are fiercely convincing everyone their community is not dead, and the only people around to hear are the same people, its dead to me.

What he means is if theres a community of people who still mod a game from over a decade ago that had very limited modding capability... a game like NWN1/2 which was designed specifically to be modded and that is alot younger will also have a community of modders dedicated to it for just as long.

If theres a community to discuss and tell each other that the community is not dead then that means theres bodies in that community still and ergo its not dead, just not the size some people class as being alive or worthy of being allowed to continue to live... the community dies when theres no one left to speak or hear... NWN1/2 and its community is along way off from that.

As for DA, well... I got it, havent even finnished it, mainly bought it for the modding, but havent even looked at it in that regard since im having fun in NWN2. And from what i read about modding in DA I think ill stick with NWN2 (And im someone whos said that NWN2 is a little more restrictive than NWN1 in that regard in some areas).

Modding is about dedication to what you enjoy, those who want to mod for a certain engine do, because that engine gives them what they want to get the job done, you dont just jump onto the next shiney one that comes along because its 'better'... i just hope that when im on life support that you dont make the decision as to weather im still alive or not. I might meet my maker a little prematurely.

[painofdungeoneternal]

ladydesire wrote...

painofdungeoneternal wrote...


 to doing classes, modules, models, areas, spells, and probably new game mechanics. .

Just because the "nudie mods" exist doesn't mean that the rest of these haven't been done yet; I have one of the first classes that was added to Dragon Age, and I've seen plenty of new spells, modules, models etc... There are even mods that have revamped the combat system to the preferences of some members of the community; I'd probably use Combat Tweaks if the author wouldn't use the override folder for his content.

Never said that, however the number of options in Dragon age,while i am sure it will catch up, just does not compare to NWN2. Even then that is largely due to the arbitrary 254 class limit imposed by the devs. ( and i bet it will take a while to even KNOW what the limits put on Dragon Age by bioware are, that 254 class limit was not know about for a while after nwn came out. While i don't pay much attention, i know it's pretty much impossible to do 250 classes in the time dragon age has been out without them being either useless duplicates or bug ridden messes, it just takes longer to do a single class so it's pro level. Even hearing folks saying they have done D&D classes in dragon age, while commendable, if you want D&D you should be using a D&D engine.

However by that same token, i am going to count stuff by a dev like you who knows what they are doing, who is going to not take what the devs gave us as an option. I mean just looking at your class pack for NWN2, we've already got far more options in NWN2.

Nothing wrong with Dragon Age, it has a lot of remarkable features i wish NWN2 had, it is just that what it offers does not compare to what i've got, that is assuming it had those critical features which even allow me as a PW admin to even consider it. Frankly there is no other option besides NWN2 to do what i am doing, nor does there look like there ever will be one unless it is a new game developed by the community ( and i know you know what i am talking about ).

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 07 septembre 2010 - 11:12 .

[ladydesire]

With modding of the interface, it will likely be possible to get more than 6 base classes, and specializations don't seem to have limits at the moment.

Also, it's possible to add classes to the DLCs for Dragon Age (I'm downloading the latest one now) in a way that wasn't possible in either Neverwinter Nights or Neverwinter Nights 2 for the Premium Modules/Adventure Packs (you can mod the Adventure Packs, but it's a kludgy hack).

Modifié par ladydesire, 07 septembre 2010 - 11:09 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

"What he means is if theres a community of people who still mod a game from over a decade ago that had very limited modding capability... a game like NWN1/2 which was designed specifically to be modded and that is alot younger will also have a community of modders dedicated to it for just as long."

Ya I understood it to mean that. That's why I was saying its not mutually dependant, just because a game is older does mean a newer one MUST be alive. Not all games generate the same interest.

Dungeon your suggested explanation of an alive community is exactly what I said; if you want to count anything that has anyone doing anything at all in it then nothing ever dies. Just us humans.

It does beg the question tho, of why the  other 99 and a half percent of people who used it disagree, in your scenario of a small, persistent few.

I didn't disparage anyone. You just said the exact same thing as me, but I'm the one disparaging people?
 I really have no idea why peopl are so obsessed with their games like its a personal attack if someone doesn't like it or only used to. I could care less. Maybe I get more fresh air than you though.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 07 septembre 2010 - 11:33 .

[The Curt Jester]

Well, as someone who used to be very active in the BG modding community until two years ago, I can say that there was a good deal of activity going on there in 2008. The last few times I've checked, it's slowing down, but there are still active communities. Judging by the traffic, I'd have to say "not dead".



As far as DA:O, I never had a bit of interest in even looking at the game, let along digging into yet another toolset that, by what I heard, was more complicated than the NWN2 one. As stated, the lack of multiplayer killed what little interest I had in even glancing at it as it would be an entire waste of my time to work with something that provides no tools to do what I am currently working on.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Careful Jester, you are disparaging my toolset of choice and by extension me!



No but seriously, DA is way more complex and some of it isnt complexity that adds function (a good thing) just needless crap that was taken care of for you in nwn2. If thats your stance, using it to try out would only reinforce it.

[The Curt Jester]

*Facepalms*

I'm not exactly sure what you said there, but my stance is that DA:O doesn't support multiplayer. It could have the greatest toolset in the world and easy to use, but I STILL WOULDN'T USE IT because I can't build a PW with it.

Modifié par The Curt Jester, 07 septembre 2010 - 11:42 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

You referenced that you heard it is even more complicated than nwn2; that is quite true. You are right to skip over it on that basis and the multiplayer basis.

[The Curt Jester]

In answer to the original poster's question, I think NWN2 will have a following for some time, so there should be people to play whatever mod he's doing.

[painofdungeoneternal]

I have no idea what percentage disagrees, nor do i care. I'd appreciate it if you would stick to facts instead of making up things, and stating that 99% of people agree with you as your main argument, i mean who doesn't think that 99% of people agree with them. How can you claim that, did you do some silly poll on the dragon age forums where it asked if NWN2 is dead and think that the results are actual facts?



That is argumentative smoke and mirrors, which ignores all the activity in these very forums which did not even exist a short while ago. But then i've seen people posting that NWN2 is dead since it first came out, then another fantastic thing is released and everyone gets excited again.



Yep a community won't die, as long as there are enough active folks involved churning out content. There does not need to be very many, i mean you only need a small team to make a video game to begin with. If you have one single lone genius, yeah that is all that is needed, especially if what they are doing becomes tools for others to mod the game.



Forum posts that NWN2 is dead, from folks in NWN1 or Dragon Age, or statements that "everyone" knows it's dead, are in the end outnumbered by real content which adds more play time to NWN2 faster than any gamer can consume it.

[kamalpoe]

Just going by the dates of last posts in the project/module forum, you could say DAO modding is dead. NWN2 module forum has more recent posts. Of course this entire thread is silly and you should mod whatever suits your desires.

DAO Project forum

NWN2 Modules forum

[Eguintir Eligard]

Why would I provide a fact when you used a fake scenario? There isnt one

"It does beg the question tho, of why the other 99 and a half percent of people who used it disagree, in your scenario of a small, persistent few."

This was in response to a theoreticaly scenario you described of as few as 1 remaining person. Not any specific game. If 1 person is left, ya, I would say 99.5 % is generously a low estimate of whatever your max population was in this non existent scenario.

As I specifically worded, as I have been all along, I said IN YOUR SCENARIO. I choose my words carefully because many posters in or not in this thread, have a very immature habit of taking everything literally or dissecting stupid little details that are just a way of avoiding the valid point being made. This whole thread is becoming that so I suspect it is dead. I am not saying you are doing that, maybe you just forgot all of what you wrote. 

Regardless, its amazing to me how I can get accused of participating in the 'is a toolset/community dead' argument when no where, and I repeat nowhere did I say anything was dead, anywhere in this thread. Go ahead and look.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 08 septembre 2010 - 01:29 .

[dunniteowl]

Okay, time to chillax folks. Enough is enough. I have seen already in this last page alone at least 4 vaguely insulting or disparaging comments that could be easily taken for personal attacks.

SO...

if there is any more to be said that might be worthwhile, have a nut. Otherwise, we could have a show of hands as to whether or not this thread's outlived it's use.

dunniteowl