75 réponses à ce sujet

[ashwind]

ninja0809 wrote...

"Leliana remained in the royal court for a time, mourning. She poured her
heart into a ballad that would eventually become known throughout
thedas. But after one performance, leliana quietly vanished.Some say
that the maker came to her in a vision again that night. Smiling,tears
in her eyes, she told a maid that she would see her love again at last"



please say it isn't so T_________T

I am sure she is only one of the many young maidens who throw themselves off some cliff after learning that their beloved/idol - the warden died. 

[Giggles_Manically]

To be fair in the case of LI and the US:
Zevran will throw himself at the crows, somehow win, and then get stuck in a loveless life he hates.

Alistair if not made king just wanders off, and dissappears. If made king he probably hates it, and tries his best simply out of duty.

Morrigan we dont know about what happens, she may be sad after her anger fades.

Leliana unhardened commits suicide through grief, which is not drastic since she has lost everything again, and her love is gone.

People who lose someone they love are destroyed its that simple, even hardened Leliana probably will grieve for the warden, for a very long time.

Theodore Roosevelt lost his mother and wife in a single day and wrote: the light has gone out of my life.
While not the same as Leliana it shows that some people are just wounded horribly by loss.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 24 août 2010 - 09:18 .

[DragonRageGT]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Theodore Roosevelt lost his mother and wife in a single day and wrote: the light has gone out of my life.
While not the same as Leliana it shows that some people are just wounded horribly by loss.

This is true but again, I can't see her commiting suicide. Despite of all that's happened to her. It is in our nature to overcome and fight to survive. I've seen people in conditions that would make most of us to be ashamed as human beings and yet they endure and overcome. People that has suffered as much or a whole lot more than Leliana.

And Leliana has a powerful, powerful tool to help her to overcome. She sings like an angel.  Particularly when she has a better face, better clothes and most important, better shoes!

Dragon Age - Leliana's Song - Trailer Edition

Plus, if she does have any belief in an afterlife and in the Maker, Andraste, etc., she will problably consider that suicide might just make her into a Broodmother or just another bureaucrat of the other side. (beetlejuice). And her spirit would never fly free as she'd expect.

"It was... when my mother died, and this wise elven woman comforted me and told me we shouldn't fear death, or hate it. Death is just another beginning. One day we must all shred our earthly bodies to allow our spirits to fly free. It's a beautiful sentiment, I think. One that brings peace and hope to the grieving."

She knows all too well how to deal with loss!

Modifié par RageGT, 25 août 2010 - 01:08 .

[Sarah1281]

And yet people who have suffered less than Leliana also commit suicide. It's a fact: suicide happens no matter what our nature might say about fighting to survive.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I too initially understood that slide as Leliana comitting suicide. But that sentence is vague enough as to provide room for interpretation.

It is entirely possible that Leliana really thinks that she did have a vision from the Maker that did tell her that the Warden will be back or that she will see him/her again. Certainly woulnd't be the first time she had the Maker talk to her.

The tragedy loving me leans towards the suicide ending more, but a possible descent into madness is also very tragic. That's possibly the main reason why I prefer hardening her. She toughens up.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 août 2010 - 01:03 .

[Giggles_Manically]

It seems that hardening more tells her to accept that she was a bard, and should accept that she enjoyed it. Which does result in her becoming a lot tougher, since she dosent use religion so much to stand on anymore.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

It seems that hardening more tells her to accept that she was a bard, and should accept that she enjoyed it. Which does result in her becoming a lot tougher, since she dosent use religion so much to stand on anymore.

I dislike the manner in which hardening her was phrased (similar to Alistair's hardening). Too restricting.
But I am pleased with the results anyhow.  

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

It seems that hardening more tells her to accept that she was a bard, and should accept that she enjoyed it. Which does result in her becoming a lot tougher, since she dosent use religion so much to stand on anymore.

I dislike the manner in which hardening her was phrased (similar to Alistair's hardening). Too restricting.
But I am pleased with the results anyhow.  

CRAZY PIRATE THREESOME!

sorry sometimes I cant help myself.
Strangely enough I give Morrigan tons of props for not going there. There are some things she wont do.

[KnightofPhoenix]

That was the point where I said: "She's perfect"

[DragonRageGT]

I don't know but for me, this girl would never commit suicide:

Dragon Age - The Best party - Vol. 9 - Nobody Dwarves it better!

Plus she gets a lot more comfortable around you after you try to bite her "forbidden fruit".

Dragon Age - Leliana's Forbidden Fruit!

Now, if you're truly lucky and gets her madly in love with you, she might teach you the "fusion" move! Although I doubt she's ever done this with someone else , at least under the exact same circunstances.

Dragon Age - A Legendary Duet


And if you hardened her after that, (I mean, another run, another char, not the same one as in the "Fusion Move") she'll jump with you into a threesome or even a foursome with Isabella and Zev. Problem is that after that, you don't really know what Zevran did to you there because Leliana will demand you to choose between the two of them later on... ouch!

Party Time!!! (Part of Dragon Age - Miss Ferelden 2009 - part I video - Leliana as a candidate is at the begining of it)

[OldMan91]

I always harden Leliana for this reason. I always feel awful seeing this slide and responsible for her suicide.

[Giggles_Manically]

I usually chose not to, depending on which PC I am playing.

Mainly I let Loghain be his awsome self and kill the AD.



So no US from me here, unless I dont like that PC, then I harden Leliana.

[KnightofPhoenix]

RageGT wrote...

I don't know but for me, this girl would never commit suicide:

Dragon Age - The Best party - Vol. 9 - Nobody Dwarves it better!

Plus she gets a lot more comfortable around you after you try to bite her "forbidden fruit".

Dragon Age - Leliana's Forbidden Fruit!

Now, if you're truly lucky and gets her madly in love with you, she might teach you the "fusion" move! Although I doubt she's ever done this with someone else , at least under the exact same circunstances.

Dragon Age - A Legendary Duet


And if you hardened her after that, (I mean, another run, another char, not the same one as in the "Fusion Move") she'll jump with you into a threesome or even a foursome with Isabella and Zev. Problem is that after that, you don't really know what Zevran did to you there because Leliana will demand you to choose between the two of them later on... ouch!

Party Time!!! (Part of Dragon Age - Miss Ferelden 2009 - part I video - Leliana as a candidate is at the begining of it)

Eum I am sorry but...what does this have to do with Leliana committing suicide or not?
Not trying to be a jerk btw.

[DragonRageGT]

Aw c'mon... do listen again to In Uthenera. Not only what she says before she sings it but what she sings! Need the lyrics with the translation? Again, we, bards, do not take our own lives over tragedies. We sing about them and we overcome!

In Uthenera

hahren na melana sahlin
emma ir abelas
souver'inan isala hamin
vhenan him dor'felas
in uthenera na revas

vir sulahn'nehn
vir dirthera
vir samahl la numin
vir lath sa'vunin


translated from the elven tongue:

elder your time is come
now I am filled with sorrow
weary eyes need resting
heart has become grey and slow
in waking sleep is freedom

we sing, rejoice
we tell the tales
we laugh and cry
we love one more day

[Sarah1281]

What does her singing an ancient elf song after the end of the Dalish quest have to do with her not being suicidal?

[KnightofPhoenix]

RageGT wrote...

Aw c'mon... do listen again to In Uthenera. Not only what she says before she sings it but what she sings! Need the lyrics with the translation? Again, we, bards, do not take our own lives over tragedies. We sing about them and we overcome!

In Uthenera

hahren na melana sahlin
emma ir abelas
souver'inan isala hamin
vhenan him dor'felas
in uthenera na revas

vir sulahn'nehn
vir dirthera
vir samahl la numin
vir lath sa'vunin


translated from the elven tongue:

elder your time is come
now I am filled with sorrow
weary eyes need resting
heart has become grey and slow
in waking sleep is freedom

we sing, rejoice
we tell the tales
we laugh and cry
we love one more day

That's the firs time I read the translation, thanks

While the lyrics definately encourage us to move on, I think we should remember that Leliana hasn't experienced loss *directly* (for a lack of a better word). She barely knew her mother when she died (not saying it isn't awful, but she wasn't fully conscience at that point). Other loss I can think of was Marjolaine, but she was betrayed by her, so it's different.

It seems to me that her relationship and love for the Warden was unique and in an time when Leliana needed it alot (or thinks she needed it). So his / her death could, imo, led her to suicide regardless of what she sings.

But like I said, I think the slide is open to interpretation and that's what I like about it. Having the slide say "Well Leliana couldn't bare living without you, so she committed suicide" would have been meeh.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 août 2010 - 01:37 .

[OldMan91]

She likes to sing, therefore she is?

[Giggles_Manically]

So I listen to and nod along to some fairly heavy music, dosent mean I want to go around overthrowing nations, and be an anarchist.



Although she does mention how important the song is to her.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So I listen to and nod along to some fairly heavy music, dosent mean I want to go around overthrowing nations, and be an anarchist.

Although she does mention how important the song is to her.

The Imperial March is my favorite piece of music of all times. Doesn't mean I want to create an Empire or anything....

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So I listen to and nod along to some fairly heavy music, dosent mean I want to go around overthrowing nations, and be an anarchist.

Although she does mention how important the song is to her.

The Imperial March is my favorite piece of music of all times. Doesn't mean I want to create an Empire or anything....

I like that two John Williams is my fave composer of all time.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So I listen to and nod along to some fairly heavy music, dosent mean I want to go around overthrowing nations, and be an anarchist.

Although she does mention how important the song is to her.

The Imperial March is my favorite piece of music of all times. Doesn't mean I want to create an Empire or anything....

I'm not sure I believe that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The Imperial March is my favorite piece of music of all times. Doesn't mean I want to create an Empire or anything....

I'm not sure I believe that.

[DragonRageGT]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

RageGT wrote...

I don't know but for me, this girl would never commit suicide:

Dragon Age - The Best party - Vol. 9 - Nobody Dwarves it better!

Plus she gets a lot more comfortable around you after you try to bite her "forbidden fruit".

Dragon Age - Leliana's Forbidden Fruit!



Now, if you're truly lucky and gets her madly in love with you, she might teach you the "fusion" move! Although I doubt she's ever done this with someone else , at least under the exact same circunstances.

Dragon Age - A Legendary Duet


And if you hardened her after that, (I mean, another run, another char, not the same one as in the "Fusion Move") she'll jump with you into a threesome or even a foursome with Isabella and Zev. Problem is that after that, you don't really know what Zevran did to you there because Leliana will demand you to choose between the two of them later on... ouch!

Party Time!!! (Part of Dragon Age - Miss Ferelden 2009 - part I video - Leliana as a candidate is at the begining of it)

Eum I am sorry but...what does this have to do with Leliana committing suicide or not?
Not trying to be a jerk btw.

Just trying to show a few nuances of her personality. She's not the suicidal type on my eyes.

Sarah1281 wrote...

What does her singing an ancient elf song after the end of the Dalish quest have to do with her not being suicidal?

It is what she says before the song that I tried to point out as something usually overlooked.

"It was... when my mother died, and this wise elven woman comforted me and told me we shouldn't fear death, or hate it. Death is just another beginning. One day we must all shred our earthly bodies to allow our spirits to fly free. It's a beautiful sentiment, I think. One that brings peace and hope to the grieving."

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So I listen to and nod along to some fairly heavy music, dosent mean I want to go around overthrowing nations, and be an anarchist.

Although she does mention how important the song is to her.

The Imperial March is my favorite piece of music of all times. Doesn't mean I want to create an Empire or anything....

There is a basic difference between writing music and listening to music that other people write. Of course that doesn't prevent a musician from enjoying other people's music, quite the contraire. But each one has their gifts. Musicians can feel music as an expression of something much bigger than they are. Sometimes music is the message and the one who wrote it is just the messenger because it is much bigger than he is.

"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy”

“No friend have I. I must live by myself alone; but I know well that God is nearer to me than others in my art, so I will walk fearlessly with Him.”

Ludwig Van Beethoven

[ninja0809]

the hell? How did my thread become a classical music discussion

[DragonRageGT]

ninja0809 wrote...

the hell? How did my thread become a classical music discussion

If all you can make of everything I tried to say is a "classical music discussion" then perhaps I better stick with forums in my language because I feel really poor at expressing a thought in foreign languages (for me) right now.