Dean_the_Young wrote...
If that's your idea of a nasty smear, you live a very, very pleasant life. She basically said 'he's a sex-fixated guy,' which he undisputably is, 'and you're carrying on your relationship in an manner undignified for a Grey Warden.' Which, depending on how you think Grey Wardens, heroes, or soldiers in general should compose themselves, is debatable.
Modifié par Zjarcal, 27 août 2010 - 03:17 .
Of course it is. Have you ever seen what a ongoing relationship built on something as fragile as sex can do to a group?Zjarcal wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
If that's your idea of a nasty smear, you live a very, very pleasant life. She basically said 'he's a sex-fixated guy,' which he undisputably is, 'and you're carrying on your relationship in an manner undignified for a Grey Warden.' Which, depending on how you think Grey Wardens, heroes, or soldiers in general should compose themselves, is debatable.
It's also none of her business.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Every companion gets upset if you tell them to stuff it. Infact, most people in general don't like you if you call them an idiot or are rude to them. It's hardly a defining character trait, as if she's dependent.
And given that that Wynn generally is a 'let's help the people without question' person, you should recognize that she disapproves that you were considering it, not that she doesn't care about people.
[...]
If that's your idea of a nasty smear, you live a very, very pleasant life. She basically said 'he's a sex-fixated guy,' which he undisputably is, 'and you're carrying on your relationship in an manner undignified for a Grey Warden.' Which, depending on how you think Grey Wardens, heroes, or soldiers in general should compose themselves, is debatable.
Modifié par ejoslin, 27 août 2010 - 03:22 .
Doesn't she disapprove MORE of you telling her to shut up then in you going along with the nasty blood magic ritual and killing the very elves you're SUPPOSED to be saving?Every companion gets upset if you tell them to stuff it. Infact, most people in general don't like you if you call them an idiot or are rude to them. It's hardly a defining character trait, as if she's dependent.
And given that that Wynn generally is a 'let's help the people without question' person, you should recognize that she disapproves that you were considering it, not that she doesn't care about people.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Of course it is. Have you ever seen what a ongoing relationship built on something as fragile as sex can do to a group?Zjarcal wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
If that's your idea of a nasty smear, you live a very, very pleasant life. She basically said 'he's a sex-fixated guy,' which he undisputably is, 'and you're carrying on your relationship in an manner undignified for a Grey Warden.' Which, depending on how you think Grey Wardens, heroes, or soldiers in general should compose themselves, is debatable.
It's also none of her business.
:sick:) then it would be her concern. Last thing I heard of, your sex life is a very private matter.
That you don't reject something as culturally abhorrent as blood sacrifice out of handejoslin wrote...
There is nothing in there that indicates you're considering siding with the slavers -- in fact, there's a 1 in 6 chance that one of those about to die is your warden's father.
I am very glad you have a pleasant life, but you lack context about what a very insulting conversation about relationships amounts to. When the counselor is pointing out what a sleaze bag, gold digger, or unprepared idiot your significant other is before you enter a serious relationship, then you have an insulting conversation. Recognizing what Zevran has been for more than half of the relationship so far, not so much. She wasn't even saying that being with him at all was wrong: she was saying the way you were going on about it it wasn't fitting for a Grey Warden. There's a large difference between the two, and she was addressing disapproval with the Warden in that context, not some slandar towards Zevran.And, ummmm, yes, my life is pleasant, but that's a very insulting conversation. I guess you don't realize that when Zevran hits adore, it's much like when the other LI hit adore -- it's not JUST about sex at that point. And telling you that it's not "fitting" to be with him is an awful thing to say. With the other three, she comes off as supportive and concerned. With Zevran, it's disgusted and disapproving (and yes, her voice IS supposed to sound disgusted and disapproving).
I will acknowledge her apology for Zevran is the nicest in the game as well, though.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
That you don't reject something as culturally abhorrent as blood sacrifice out of handejoslin wrote...
There is nothing in there that indicates you're considering siding with the slavers -- in fact, there's a 1 in 6 chance that one of those about to die is your warden's father.I am very glad you have a pleasant life, but you lack context about what a very insulting conversation about relationships amounts to. When the counselor is pointing out what a sleaze bag, gold digger, or unprepared idiot your significant other is before you enter a serious relationship, then you have an insulting conversation. Recognizing what Zevran has been for more than half of the relationship so far, not so much. She wasn't even saying that being with him at all was wrong: she was saying the way you were going on about it it wasn't fitting for a Grey Warden. There's a large difference between the two, and she was addressing disapproval with the Warden in that context, not some slandar towards Zevran.And, ummmm, yes, my life is pleasant, but that's a very insulting conversation. I guess you don't realize that when Zevran hits adore, it's much like when the other LI hit adore -- it's not JUST about sex at that point. And telling you that it's not "fitting" to be with him is an awful thing to say. With the other three, she comes off as supportive and concerned. With Zevran, it's disgusted and disapproving (and yes, her voice IS supposed to sound disgusted and disapproving).
I will acknowledge her apology for Zevran is the nicest in the game as well, though.
I know what it means when Zevran or another LI hits adore. But I also know what it was, what it started out as, before Zevran hit out adore, and Wynn and much the rest of the party know it as well. And, unlike you they didn't get to listen in on his deep character confession, which he really trully meant ™. At worst, her advice is just recently obsolete.
Modifié par ejoslin, 27 août 2010 - 03:36 .
She also complains about all the racket keeping her up at night even if you haven't slept with him. She accuses him of only being in it for the sex...which you don't even need to be having at that point! How judgemental is it that she's just assuming that you two must be going at it like rabbits just because you clearly like each other?She wasn't even saying that being with him at all was wrong: she was saying the way you were going on about it it wasn't fitting for a Grey Warden. There's a large difference between the two, and she was addressing disapproval with the Warden in that context, not some slandar towards Zevran.
I'm very supportive of the idea of stopping individual problems before the effect a lot of people's lives before it blows up in somebodies face, sometimes literally. But then, that's part of my next job: people do go crazy and do very stupid things when they enter a relationship without being prepared, and the fallout isn't limited to themselves.Zjarcal wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Of course it is. Have you ever seen what a ongoing relationship built on something as fragile as sex can do to a group?Zjarcal wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
If that's your idea of a nasty smear, you live a very, very pleasant life. She basically said 'he's a sex-fixated guy,' which he undisputably is, 'and you're carrying on your relationship in an manner undignified for a Grey Warden.' Which, depending on how you think Grey Wardens, heroes, or soldiers in general should compose themselves, is debatable.
It's also none of her business.
Ughhh... I don't even know what to say anymore.
She joined the group out of her own will, not because the warden asked. She is with the warden to help defeat the blight. That's it. Who the warden rolls around with or why they do it is not her concern. If my warden was rolling around with her (
But it seems you are very supportive of the idea of someone meddling in someone else's life.
Given how most young adults in relationships are, and how Zevran in particular usually is? Not very.Sarah1281 wrote...
She also complains about all the racket keeping her up at night even if you haven't slept with him. She accuses him of only being in it for the sex...which you don't even need to be having at that point! How judgemental is it that she's just assuming that you two must be going at it like rabbits just because you clearly like each other?She wasn't even saying that being with him at all was wrong: she was saying the way you were going on about it it wasn't fitting for a Grey Warden. There's a large difference between the two, and she was addressing disapproval with the Warden in that context, not some slandar towards Zevran.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Given how most young adults in relationships are, and how Zevran in particular usually is? Not very.Sarah1281 wrote...
She also complains about all the racket keeping her up at night even if you haven't slept with him. She accuses him of only being in it for the sex...which you don't even need to be having at that point! How judgemental is it that she's just assuming that you two must be going at it like rabbits just because you clearly like each other?She wasn't even saying that being with him at all was wrong: she was saying the way you were going on about it it wasn't fitting for a Grey Warden. There's a large difference between the two, and she was addressing disapproval with the Warden in that context, not some slandar towards Zevran.
Modifié par ejoslin, 27 août 2010 - 03:42 .
You don't think its presumptuous to not only assume that two people are sleeping together when they're not and give a lecture about this but also to lie about having heard you going at it?Dean_the_Young wrote...
Given how most young adults in relationships are, and how Zevran in particular usually is? Not very.Sarah1281 wrote...
She also complains about all the racket keeping her up at night even if you haven't slept with him. She accuses him of only being in it for the sex...which you don't even need to be having at that point! How judgemental is it that she's just assuming that you two must be going at it like rabbits just because you clearly like each other?She wasn't even saying that being with him at all was wrong: she was saying the way you were going on about it it wasn't fitting for a Grey Warden. There's a large difference between the two, and she was addressing disapproval with the Warden in that context, not some slandar towards Zevran.
Pretty much everyone gets a token of affection from a potential love interest with or without actually getting into a serious romance.ejoslin wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
That you don't reject something as culturally abhorrent as blood sacrifice out of hand is the indication you're thinking of it. Would you feel positive towards someone who, when offered a little gain at the price of raping a child, told you to shut up when you invited him to scoff at the notion?ejoslin wrote...
There is nothing in there that indicates you're considering siding with the slavers -- in fact, there's a 1 in 6 chance that one of those about to die is your warden's father.I am very glad you have a pleasant life, but you lack context about what a very insulting conversation about relationships amounts to. When the counselor is pointing out what a sleaze bag, gold digger, or unprepared idiot your significant other is before you enter a serious relationship, then you have an insulting conversation. Recognizing what Zevran has been for more than half of the relationship so far, not so much. She wasn't even saying that being with him at all was wrong: she was saying the way you were going on about it it wasn't fitting for a Grey Warden. There's a large difference between the two, and she was addressing disapproval with the Warden in that context, not some slandar towards Zevran.And, ummmm, yes, my life is pleasant, but that's a very insulting conversation. I guess you don't realize that when Zevran hits adore, it's much like when the other LI hit adore -- it's not JUST about sex at that point. And telling you that it's not "fitting" to be with him is an awful thing to say. With the other three, she comes off as supportive and concerned. With Zevran, it's disgusted and disapproving (and yes, her voice IS supposed to sound disgusted and disapproving).
I will acknowledge her apology for Zevran is the nicest in the game as well, though.
I know what it means when Zevran or another LI hits adore. But I also know what it was, what it started out as, before Zevran hit out adore, and Wynn and much the rest of the party know it as well. And, unlike you they didn't get to listen in on his deep character confession, which he really trully meant ™. At worst, her advice is just recently obsolete.
You do? You don't ever have to have sex with Zevran -- you don't ever have to initiate it, and you can turn him down without an approval loss, and still have him basically propose.
Yeh, you don't have to have sex with Zevran to get that speech. Or you could have sex when he hits adore and asks, after it's beyond JUST sex, and still get that speech.
'She doesn't know the full story' isn't a great argument when 'the story' not only just changed, and hasn't changed in a public manner.And the fact that Wynne doesn't get the full story, as you just admit, means she's jumping to conclusions and lecturing on something she doesn't know about rather than giving wise advice.
Edit: See, that's the thing. Wynne lectures on things when she doesn't have the full story, and doesn't realize what she doesn't know. And how you don't see that as insulting to Zevran I'm not sure. She's taking a relationship of two adults who care for each other, and making it out to be something it's not, putting Zevran down and cheapening it because of her skewed point of view.
I' woul love to hear you tell that to your kids some day, when you want to give them advice they refuse to listen to.That's not a lot of wisdom there. Sometimes it's wisest to keep your mouth shut.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 27 août 2010 - 03:46 .
No one, least not Wynn, is saying that.Zjarcal wrote...
Good, I'm going to place a chastity belt on my warden from now on. Otherwise Ferelden is doomed.
Strange, because he invited me into the bed pretty simply, and I wasn't even trying to romance him. I hadn't even realized I was romancing him as a male, and thought we were budies who's flirting I tolerated.Zjarcal wrote...
"Zevran is a shameless flirt who will invite you to his bed quickly"
Are you aware that Zevran doesn't invite you to bed until very late in the relationship. The player can invite him if they want, but he won't even mention sex until the relationship advances quite a bit.
Why, exactly, does Wynne think that dating someone means that you're going to ditch your responsibilities anyway? Does she really have that little faith in you?None of them justify losing oneself in the moment and forgetting what else you are, and the responsibilities you've accepted, which is pretty much all Wynne is saying to you.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
None of them justify losing oneself in the moment and forgetting what else you are, and the responsibilities you've accepted, which is pretty much all Wynn is saying to you.
'Get' is shorthand for 'not agree with you,' I take it?ejoslin wrote...
You know, you are on very thin ice with this argument, because I don't think you really get the Zevran romance at all. (have you ever done it to completion, especially on a modded game where the dialog isn't messed up or are you just making assumptions based on dialogs you have with him while not in a relationship?)
Wynn does understand what is going on. You do not understand Wynn. Wynn is not your mother saying you picked up a bad boy why is abusing you. Wynn is not your grandmother telling you to save yourself for marriage. Wynn isn't the spinstress telling you that, no, you aren't really in love with him regardless of what your hormones tell you.But still, Wynne does not understand what is going on with the relationship, and doesn't understand that she doesn't know. And lectures and gets annoyed when you disagree with her anyway.
Young adults, like the Warden, need reminding all the more because they think they don't. No one cares if kids screw around: they aren't in a position to do serious harm or ruin the world because of a bad breakup and the fallout.Edit: Again, I say that's not very wise of her. Very human, perhaps. But lecturing an adult you've known a short time on their relationship with someone they care for and who shares those feelings is probably a VERY bad idea, so not wise at all. Wynne never sees Zevran mistreat the warden, as he never does mistreat the warden, so you can't even claim she's concerned about that.
Whether you want to accept it or not, you have those responsibilities. You can run from them, you can defy them, you can try to betray them, but you have them.Zjarcal wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
None of them justify losing oneself in the moment and forgetting what else you are, and the responsibilities you've accepted, which is pretty much all Wynn is saying to you.
I'm sorry but for some Wardens, it's not a case of accepting those responsibilities. It's more like they were imposed on them. Last I checked, a City Elf warden gets conscripted without a say, while a Dalish can choose to be a Warden or die.
Who says you'd ditch them entirely? You don't need to to fail.Sarah1281 wrote...
Why, exactly, does Wynne think that dating someone means that you're going to ditch your responsibilities anyway? Does she really have that little faith in you?None of them justify losing oneself in the moment and forgetting what else you are, and the responsibilities you've accepted, which is pretty much all Wynne is saying to you.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
I've seen young people in love. It can be a very beautiful thing. It can also be accompanied by failing to continue to show up to work and being fired, not being able to focus on problems and issues, and AWOL charges.
And that's when the relationship is going well.
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