267 réponses à ce sujet

[ExtremeOne]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
This is a freaking video game we are talking about but oh i forgot there are some that will still keep this stupid myth that Mass Effect 1 was the greatest game ever with no problems. a gun having to cool down just so you can use it makes no sense and its not logical at all. The game play is most important in a game. Guns rely on bullets to work not some stupid story fiction where guns have to cool down before working. Oh and the biotics in the game do not need no stupid cool down function neither when the stupid story fiction says that biotics have bio amps implanted with in them. If a game has a great story but the game play sucks like garbage then the game is a piece of crap. Mass Effect 1 got a freaking pass on that which is a load of sh*t 

You do realize that ME2 guns still don't use "bullets", right?

And nobody ever said ME1 was perfect or without flaws, but it certainly was executed a lot better than ME2, especially in terms of story and lore.

If you want to shut out your brain and focus on the game's combat, go for it. Enjoy it. Some of us rather liked ME for being a consistent, well thought out world, which it really no longer is.

  


what do you call thermal clips they are basically bullets 

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ExtremeOne wrote...
what do you call thermal clips they are basically bullets 

They function in-game similarly to bullets, but what they actually are is nothing like bullets. I call them thermal clips because that's what they are in the ME world.

[ExtremeOne]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
what do you call thermal clips they are basically bullets 

They function in-game similarly to bullets, but what they actually are is nothing like bullets. I call them thermal clips because that's what they are in the ME world.

  


they are ME 2 's version of bullets 

[Onyx Jaguar]

KainrycKarr wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

They did the right thing in ME 2. by ditching a stupid idea of guns cooling down before you can use them. thats a bunch of bull sh*t. no one gives a crap about fiction when the stupid fiction makes the game play play like dog crap

You're an idiot. Most of the forum cares more about the story. Go play Halo.

Technically Halo has both systems

So one should not point out witches if one is a witch themselves

Personally without gun degredation the system in ME 1 is in fact flawed.  The only flaw in this system is that it was made to correct the first one.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ExtremeOne wrote...
they are ME 2 's version of bullets 

No, ME's version of "bullets" are tiny pieces of material shaved off inside the gun from a larger piece or block and then shot out at very high velocity.

Thermal clips are a means of managing the gun's overheating. They just happen to illogically function like bullets for the sake of the gameplay.

[MadCat221]

As evidenced by his insistence on calling everyone else idiots, ExtremeOne is a troll. Please don't dignify him with a response.

[Zulu_DFA]

So, they wanted to make an AMMO SYSTEM, to make things intense in combat.

What we had in ME1 was: infinite ammo + infinite "powers"

In ME2 we have: limited ammo + infinite "powers".

What we should have got: infinite ammo + limited "powers"

That is, BioWare could have implemented the following system:

Tech mines (abilities) require onmigel. You run out of omnigel, you can't use tech mines (abilities) any more.
Biotic abilities drain hit points (replenished with medigel). You run out of medigel, you can't use biotics any more.
Mass accelerator weapons still use unlimited ammo and cooldown system.
More emphasis is put on using tech and biotic abilities in combat (for example, by making enemy shields more resistant to incoming fire, or hard to catch in the sights, like the geth hoppers in ME1, or super-tough, like the krogan), so the player is more dependable on their limited amount of omnigel and medigel. Basically it's an AMMO SYSTEM.
Balancing out "the economy" of different classes is a mathematical problem plus testing (which they do regardless)

Such system would (a) leave the MASS EFFECT LORE intact (both in regard to mass accelerator guns and tech and biotic abilities), and ( create a unique Sci-fi Shooter/RPG gameplay experience instead of a GoW clone.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 août 2010 - 07:13 .

[Eber]

Of the the three major changes to the battle system this is the one I have the least problems with. It's still pretty bad mind you.

The armor/shield/health thing is just terrible though. It makes all classes play the same. Before there was a real difference between playing an adept and an engineer. An adept could disable enemies en masse and throw krogans of the map given a sufficent level. Meanwhile an engineer could hack geth (now they can't because apparently shields stop that). You're just so powerless and weak. You get to choose from incinerating your opponents armor or warping it and that's that. Abilities that work only on health, and that's almost every ability in the game, are all but useless because they won't work 90 % of the time. This is why the ultimate character in ME2 is a freaking solder with a good ammo power as special ability.

The second game play breaking change is that all abilities share a cooldown. They said the goal was that players shouldn't feel so powerless after using an ability but obviously the result is the opposite. I never get powerfull and I am completly disabled after using any spell however measly. It's like I'm being constantly dampened.

These changes all go together. Battling overheat when all the cooldowns are shared wouldn't work. You could end up standing still doing literally nothing for seconds without even the option to do something. Also when most/all skills are useless and you can't rely on them as mentioned before you need weapons that kick ass. So now when we have game play that is all about shooting and shots actually kills anything readily (remember how krogans used to be) we need the ammo mechanic so the player can't just hold the trigger, spray and pray.

What I'm saying is that reverting only one of these three things might actually do more bad than good. We need to revert them all. That will never happen.

Modifié par Eber, 23 août 2010 - 07:38 .

[khevan]

To be completely honest, I like the new ammo system, whatever name you want to call it by. I wish ME1 had the same system, and thus the lore would have been intact.



As far as the lore goes, yes, it bothers me that the change was made, because the change to gameplay mechanics makes no sense lore-wise if you look at it closely enough. For the sake of consistency in the lore, I wish Bioware had gone with a hybrid system. An ammo system that lets you reload and thus keep firing faster, but when you run out you now have to wait on a cool down for your weapon if it overheats. The combat in ME2 is fast enough (at least for me) that I'd be primarily using the reload system, just so I don't have to wait on a cooldown just as some random Krogan is charging my position, but the option would be there, and it would be an addition to previously established lore, not a complete change to it.

[KainrycKarr]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

They did the right thing in ME 2. by ditching a stupid idea of guns cooling down before you can use them. thats a bunch of bull sh*t. no one gives a crap about fiction when the stupid fiction makes the game play play like dog crap

You're an idiot. Most of the forum cares more about the story. Go play Halo.

Technically Halo has both systems

So one should not point out witches if one is a witch themselves

Personally without gun degredation the system in ME 1 is in fact flawed.  The only flaw in this system is that it was made to correct the first one.

Not talking about the ammo systems. Just his child-like anger towards anything and everyone that he doesn't like. It reminds me of the typical halo/cod fan.(Not that all of them are like....just a very, very large portion.)

[KainrycKarr]

ExtremeOne wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

They did the right thing in ME 2. by ditching a stupid idea of guns cooling down before you can use them. thats a bunch of bull sh*t. no one gives a crap about fiction when the stupid fiction makes the game play play like dog crap

You're an idiot. Most of the forum cares more about the story. Go play Halo.

  


Like i said if a game has a good story and game play is crap does the story really mean anything no because games are centered around game play. you are the idiot because at least i know when a game has bad game play that means it sucks 

Okay, if ME1 sucks, then ask yourself, why did they make ME2?

1. Think 2. Post

Not vice versa.

[Jigero]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
...wall of text...

Yes, you're absolutely right. BioWare made a major retcon for no reason and to no gain.

ME1 > ME2 in absolutely every way, save for graphics.

Oh golly not surprised to see you here Zulu, see you're up to your favorite hobby, Whinning about ME2 in a desprite attempt for some one to validate your opinion.

[Mister Mida]

They should've introduced the thermal clips in ME (1) or not at all. From a realistic point of view (I know, it's fiction. But I'm gonna bring it up anyway.) why would you go back to a system that's less durable and lessens your success in long standing firefights?

I don't have facts, but I think Bioware did this to play it safe. The combat system in ME (1) may not be to the liking of many people (I don't count myself as one of them) but at least it tried to be original and authentic to a futuristic setting. In ME2 Bioware practically went backwards to the common third-person shooter system so that (new) people could get faster into the game.

I've said this before on other threads but a hybrid of both systems in ME3 could please both parties. Just make it like the overheating system but allow the player to eject the heat instead of a thermal clip.

[AresXX7]

@Eber

actually, it makes more sense to me, to have a shared cool down, because it makes you come up with a strategy on how you use it, rather than just going through one after another

but, I think that the tech & biotic abilities should be on a seperate cool down cycle

I mean, seriously, how could one affect the other? they're from two different sources :
tech - the omni-tool you're using
biotics - your body's innate ability + a biotic amp

[cachx]

Don't you get the feeling that we have talked about this before? Anyway...

Sometimes I wish Bioware would had just flat out ret-conned the ammo system instead of trying to explain it, it would have been much better in the long run.

Gameplay-wise, ME2 is much better, no question about it.

[CroGamer002]

F*ck that explanation. Real explanation is different game mechanic!

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So, they wanted to make an AMMO SYSTEM, to make things intense in combat.

What we had in ME1 was: infinite ammo + infinite "powers"

In ME2 we have: limited ammo + infinite "powers".

What we should have got: infinite ammo + limited "powers"

That is, BioWare could have implemented the following system:

Tech mines (abilities) require onmigel. You run out of omnigel, you can't use tech mines (abilities) any more.
Biotic abilities drain hit points (replenished with medigel). You run out of medigel, you can't use biotics any more.
Mass accelerator weapons still use unlimited ammo and cooldown system.
More emphasis is put on using tech and biotic abilities in combat (for example, by making enemy shields more resistant to incoming fire, or hard to catch in the sights, like the geth hoppers in ME1, or super-tough, like the krogan), so the player is more dependable on their limited amount of omnigel and medigel. Basically it's an AMMO SYSTEM.
Balancing out "the economy" of different classes is a mathematical problem plus testing (which they do regardless)

Such system would (a) leave the MASS EFFECT LORE intact (both in regard to mass accelerator guns and tech and biotic abilities), and ( create a unique Sci-fi Shooter/RPG gameplay experience instead of a GoW clone.

That's stupid.

[Zulu_DFA]

Jigero wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
...wall of text...

Yes, you're absolutely right. BioWare made a major retcon for no reason and to no gain.

ME1 > ME2 in absolutely every way, save for graphics.

Oh golly not surprised to see you here Zulu, see you're up to your favorite hobby, Whinning about ME2 in a desprite attempt for some one to validate your opinion.

I'm not surprised to see people whining about whiners.

And, in my opinion, I can't be looking for someone to validate my opinion, because, in my opinion, it's my opinion that validates or invalidates everyone else's opinion.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 août 2010 - 08:13 .

[wulf3n]

When is infinite ammo, ever a bad thing?



"A well trained soldier can eject a thermal clip in under a second"... thats great, but in ME1 a well trained soldier with an unmodified rifle could provide effective suppressive fire, without ever over heating his/her rifle, indefinitely!

[brgillespie]

Real-world, soldiers with a combat load of "thermal clips" would win a fight against an enemy armed with weaponry that possessed the ability to become unusable due to heat dissipation. Modern-day infantry combat is fast and furious, I imagine a war in the Mass Effect universe would be crazy.



Anyway... fire suppression, fix-and-flank. One team lays down suppressive fire, the other team goes around and hits them from the left or right while the first team is suppressing the enemy.



Gameplay-wise... it'd be nice to add the "heat dissipation" if only the rid the forums of these goddamn threads. Thermal clips are *everywhere*, even on Insanity I had no difficulty rearming my weaponry without "scouring the battlefield". Complete exaggeration.

[Arijharn]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So, they wanted to make an AMMO SYSTEM, to make things intense in combat.

What we had in ME1 was: infinite ammo + infinite "powers"

In ME2 we have: limited ammo + infinite "powers".

What we should have got: infinite ammo + limited "powers"

That is, BioWare could have implemented the following system:

Tech mines (abilities) require onmigel. You run out of omnigel, you can't use tech mines (abilities) any more.
Biotic abilities drain hit points (replenished with medigel). You run out of medigel, you can't use biotics any more.
Mass accelerator weapons still use unlimited ammo and cooldown system.
More emphasis is put on using tech and biotic abilities in combat (for example, by making enemy shields more resistant to incoming fire, or hard to catch in the sights, like the geth hoppers in ME1, or super-tough, like the krogan), so the player is more dependable on their limited amount of omnigel and medigel. Basically it's an AMMO SYSTEM.
Balancing out "the economy" of different classes is a mathematical problem plus testing (which they do regardless)

Such system would (a) leave the MASS EFFECT LORE intact (both in regard to mass accelerator guns and tech and biotic abilities), and ( create a unique Sci-fi Shooter/RPG gameplay experience instead of a GoW clone.

No offense, but I hate your idea for one simple reason; it penalises the classes that most rely on their abilities (Engineer and Adept) for the simple reason that neither of those classes have skills to boost their weapon fire therefore they are even more penalised for the fact that not only can they not use their abilities to the same degree of consistency as firing their gun (the main strength and draw of using a Soldier) they're actually penalised for using their class 'strengths.'

Lore, in my honest opinion has to take the back seat in terms of gameplay if the Lore is going to be 'detrimental' to people's enjoyment.

Using biotic abilities isn't going to kill anyone anyway, they may feint if they don't keep their electrolytes up etc, and if you feint you're going to be more at risk of some bad guy waltzing up to your comatose body and pulling the trigger than you (a trained professional) just keeling over and dying because you didn't drink your gatorade.

[wulf3n]

brgillespie wrote...

Real-world, soldiers with a combat load of "thermal clips" would win a fight against an enemy armed with weaponry that possessed the ability to become unusable due to heat dissipation. Modern-day infantry combat is fast and furious, I imagine a war in the Mass Effect universe would be crazy.

But your assuming a trained soldier would over heat his weapon! even without mods, its quite easy to provide more than sufficient suppression, without over heating. Now if your army was full of un-trained rookies, that just hold the trigger down, every time they see an enemy  then yes, thermal clips would help, but in that situation you'd have greater problems than weapons over heating.

[brgillespie]

In the span of time between my post above and this post, I remembered a situation in ME2 where my rifle ran dry while fighting husks and Shepard had to do a quick transition between the rifle and his sidearm.



Moments like that are why I hope they don't "retcon" the system *again* in ME3. At the least, an "ammo" system makes you use different weapons.

[wulf3n]

brgillespie wrote...
Moments like that are why I hope they don't "retcon" the system *again* in ME3. At the least, an "ammo" system makes you use different weapons.

The weapons in ME1 made me want to use different ones. All of the ME1(with the exception of the pistol) had they're own little charms and flaws. ME2 forced me to use weapons i didn't want to. 
To me "forcing" you to use all your weapons isn't fun, giving you a "reason" to use all your weapons is.

[JGDD]

brgillespie wrote...

In the span of time between my post above and this post, I remembered a situation in ME2 where my rifle ran dry while fighting husks and Shepard had to do a quick transition between the rifle and his sidearm.

Moments like that are why I hope they don't "retcon" the system *again* in ME3. At the least, an "ammo" system makes you use different weapons.

It's also moments like yours that expose gaping holes. EG: universal heat sinks. Not as universal as you thought.