267 réponses à ce sujet

[ExtremeOne]

crimzontearz wrote...

no it's freaking not!

the case of a bullet contains gunpowder that explodes after a percussion and creates enough energy to propell the bullet out of the gun

a heatsink stores the heat generated by a slug that is accelerated on a magnetic rail in a mass effect field

HOW are they the same thing??????

  


no matter what they are heat sinks are a better idea then the stupid unlimited ammo and gun cool down bullsh*t from Mass Effect 1. 

[crimzontearz]

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

no it's freaking not!

the case of a bullet contains gunpowder that explodes after a percussion and creates enough energy to propell the bullet out of the gun

a heatsink stores the heat generated by a slug that is accelerated on a magnetic rail in a mass effect field

HOW are they the same thing??????

  


no matter what they are heat sinks are a better idea then the stupid unlimited ammo and gun cool down bullsh*t from Mass Effect 1. 

you DO realize that "ammo" is still limitless in ME2 Right?

heatsinks do not give you more slugs at all, those are always the same, they only allow you to cool off your overheated weapon which would otherwise not be able to shoot it's STILL UNLIMITED supply of slugs. The idea is STILL the same they just added heatsinks to force the player to reload and limit the effectiveness of a weapon

in your own words this is still the SAME B.S. from ME1 other than cool-off times which replaced by a limited supply  of swappable heatsinks


do you even know what you are talking about?????

[ExtremeOne]

crimzontearz wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

no it's freaking not!

the case of a bullet contains gunpowder that explodes after a percussion and creates enough energy to propell the bullet out of the gun

a heatsink stores the heat generated by a slug that is accelerated on a magnetic rail in a mass effect field

HOW are they the same thing??????

  


no matter what they are heat sinks are a better idea then the stupid unlimited ammo and gun cool down bullsh*t from Mass Effect 1. 

you DO realize that "ammo" is still limitless in ME2 Right?

heatsinks do not give you more slugs at all, those are always the same, they only allow you to cool off your overheated weapon which would otherwise not be able to shoot it's STILL UNLIMITED supply of slugs. The idea is STILL the same they just added heatsinks to force the player to reload and limit the effectiveness of a weapon

in your own words this is still the SAME B.S. from ME1 other than cool-off times which replaced by a limited supply  of swappable heatsinks


do you even know what you are talking about?????

  



guns fire bullets and the eject casings. it just so happens in Mass Effect 2 the guns do not eject empty bullet casings but instead eject more ammo thats fine from a video game idea. but Bioware should have just made all the weapons laser based weapons and this whole discussion would have been mute. 

[crimzontearz]

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

no it's freaking not!

the case of a bullet contains gunpowder that explodes after a percussion and creates enough energy to propell the bullet out of the gun

a heatsink stores the heat generated by a slug that is accelerated on a magnetic rail in a mass effect field

HOW are they the same thing??????

  


no matter what they are heat sinks are a better idea then the stupid unlimited ammo and gun cool down bullsh*t from Mass Effect 1. 

you DO realize that "ammo" is still limitless in ME2 Right?

heatsinks do not give you more slugs at all, those are always the same, they only allow you to cool off your overheated weapon which would otherwise not be able to shoot it's STILL UNLIMITED supply of slugs. The idea is STILL the same they just added heatsinks to force the player to reload and limit the effectiveness of a weapon

in your own words this is still the SAME B.S. from ME1 other than cool-off times which replaced by a limited supply  of swappable heatsinks


do you even know what you are talking about?????

  



guns fire bullets and the eject casings. it just so happens in Mass Effect 2 the guns do not eject empty bullet casings but instead eject more ammo thats fine from a video game idea. but Bioware should have just made all the weapons laser based weapons and this whole discussion would have been mute. 

WHAT???? Guns in ME2 eject "more ammo"??

are you high on something or are you just trying to be annoying?

Guns in ME2 eject thermal clips (heat sinks) which stored the heat that would have otherwise overheated the gun (thus replacing the cooldown system). Heatsinks have NOTHING to do with ammo.

at this point you are basically embarassing yourself you know?

[Moiaussi]

ExtremeOne wrote...

lasers are totally different than guns. guns do not have the power to fire rounds unlimited they have to eject the bullet casing. 

Not all guns use conventional propellant based projectiles. There is no need for a casing in a railgun. Railguns use linear accelerators... electomagnetic coils chained together along the barrel, accelerating the projectile. There is no need for a casing, in fact any casing would get in the way. This is the basis of ME projectile weapons.

Regardless of your opinion, laser weaponry is refered to as laser guns and has been since first conceived. Side arms are referred to as laser pistols, and long arms as laser rifles, even though there is no rifling at all.

That is not new.

If you had a laser longarm (basicly a light based energy weapon in the form of a rifle), what would you call it other than a laser rifle? And if you have never heard of a 'ray gun' you need to get out more. The fact that 'gun' normally refers to projectile based weapons is simply the reality that those are really all we have in RL.

[ExtremeOne]

crimzontearz wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

no it's freaking not!

the case of a bullet contains gunpowder that explodes after a percussion and creates enough energy to propell the bullet out of the gun

a heatsink stores the heat generated by a slug that is accelerated on a magnetic rail in a mass effect field

HOW are they the same thing??????

  


no matter what they are heat sinks are a better idea then the stupid unlimited ammo and gun cool down bullsh*t from Mass Effect 1. 

you DO realize that "ammo" is still limitless in ME2 Right?

heatsinks do not give you more slugs at all, those are always the same, they only allow you to cool off your overheated weapon which would otherwise not be able to shoot it's STILL UNLIMITED supply of slugs. The idea is STILL the same they just added heatsinks to force the player to reload and limit the effectiveness of a weapon

in your own words this is still the SAME B.S. from ME1 other than cool-off times which replaced by a limited supply  of swappable heatsinks


do you even know what you are talking about?????

  



guns fire bullets and the eject casings. it just so happens in Mass Effect 2 the guns do not eject empty bullet casings but instead eject more ammo thats fine from a video game idea. but Bioware should have just made all the weapons laser based weapons and this whole discussion would have been mute. 

WHAT???? Guns in ME2 eject "more ammo"??

are you high on something or are you just trying to be annoying?

Guns in ME2 eject thermal clips (heat sinks) which stored the heat that would have otherwise overheated the gun (thus replacing the cooldown system). Heatsinks have NOTHING to do with ammo.

at this point you are basically embarassing yourself you know?

  


Lasers would have been a better idea. I could care less what the stupid fiction says because guess what that has changed from ME 1 to ME 2.  

[crimzontearz]

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

no it's freaking not!

the case of a bullet contains gunpowder that explodes after a percussion and creates enough energy to propell the bullet out of the gun

a heatsink stores the heat generated by a slug that is accelerated on a magnetic rail in a mass effect field

HOW are they the same thing??????

  


no matter what they are heat sinks are a better idea then the stupid unlimited ammo and gun cool down bullsh*t from Mass Effect 1. 

you DO realize that "ammo" is still limitless in ME2 Right?

heatsinks do not give you more slugs at all, those are always the same, they only allow you to cool off your overheated weapon which would otherwise not be able to shoot it's STILL UNLIMITED supply of slugs. The idea is STILL the same they just added heatsinks to force the player to reload and limit the effectiveness of a weapon

in your own words this is still the SAME B.S. from ME1 other than cool-off times which replaced by a limited supply  of swappable heatsinks


do you even know what you are talking about?????

  



guns fire bullets and the eject casings. it just so happens in Mass Effect 2 the guns do not eject empty bullet casings but instead eject more ammo thats fine from a video game idea. but Bioware should have just made all the weapons laser based weapons and this whole discussion would have been mute. 

WHAT???? Guns in ME2 eject "more ammo"??

are you high on something or are you just trying to be annoying?

Guns in ME2 eject thermal clips (heat sinks) which stored the heat that would have otherwise overheated the gun (thus replacing the cooldown system). Heatsinks have NOTHING to do with ammo.

at this point you are basically embarassing yourself you know?

  


Lasers would have been a better idea. I could care less what the stupid fiction says because guess what that has changed from ME 1 to ME 2.  

this last sentence of yours simply shines  on its own <_<

also

the fiction has not changed at all, rather than venting heat now the weapons "store" it in a heatsink that is ejected and replaced

again

nothing has changed aside for the fact that the devs wanted us (the players) to have to deal with reloading and limited usage of the weapons

[Moiaussi]

Actually the heat is likely from the mass effect field generators. The barrel itself is frictionless.

Other than the Geth weapons, they are still projectile weapons, though, and thus still, in theory, have actual ammo in addition to any heat issues. That is where things get hokey. The official answer is that ultra thin needles are somehow shaved off a block that provides effectively unlimited ammunition. This is the same whether it is a high rate of fire SMG, or a low rate of fire sniper rifle, or anything in between.

On top of that, the projectiles are magically packed with heat or cold or 'disruption', based on some sort of biotic or technical power external to the weapon.

These are basicly "wierd science" weapons. Any logic used has to be taken with a big grain of salt....

[Lunatic LK47]

wulf3n wrote...
If your picking adept or engineer, your choosing not to use guns. and at least with ME1 they can still use the other guns, just not as effective as a soldier. After all its not that hard to pick up a gun and know how to shoot, compare that to ME2 where the adept and engineer seem to be physically incapable of firing any weapon other than a pistol, smg, or heavy weapon, for some unknown reason.

Except you're still screwed by the "Invest points into weapon skills if you want to be remotely good with said weapon," and getting training to one of the other three weapons is not available unless you decide to use a bonus tree.  Using the other weapons that those two classes and the sentinel aren't trained in is just as stupid as expecting to beat all of the older Resident Evil games with a knife. BTW, it still doesn't explain what the **** we're supposed to do if we got hit by Sabotage and Damping at the same ****ing time.

[Randy1012]

Thermal clips don't create ammunition, they only determine how much ammo you can use before your gun becomes too hot to fire. By ejecting a thermal clip and putting in a fresh one, you're not 'reloading,' you're just making it possible to continue firing your weapon without it overheating. Rocket science, this is not.

And I hate them. They're way too limiting. The beauty of mass effect technology is that soldiers aren't supposed to be limited by having to reload their weapons every few seconds.

[Big Yam]

I can't imagine this game with unlimited ammo.  The thought of running out of bullets forces the player to attack aggressively instead of camping behind a box.  It's a good psychological effect, which I think makes the game more fun.

[Randy1012]

Big Yam wrote...

I can't imagine this game with unlimited ammo.  The thought of running out of bullets forces the player to attack aggressively instead of camping behind a box.  It's a good psychological effect, which I think makes the game more fun.

You don't run out of bullets in ME2.

[Skyblade012]

Even if the lore reasons for the heatsinks was true, do they offer any explanation at all for why Sniper Rifles use them?



Take the Mantis. With a heat sink, one shot maxes the capacity of the heatsink, forcing absorption. How is that more efficient than a dissipator? One shot overheats the weapon either way, so the only thing it does it cuts the total amount of shots you can fire.

[Nigawatts]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Even if the lore reasons for the heatsinks was true, do they offer any explanation at all for why Sniper Rifles use them?

Take the Mantis. With a heat sink, one shot maxes the capacity of the heatsink, forcing absorption. How is that more efficient than a dissipator? One shot overheats the weapon either way, so the only thing it does it cuts the total amount of shots you can fire.

Just let that one ride. I love my Shepard's animation when he reloads a sniper rifle like it's a bolt-action.

[JMAC666]

It was a wizard

[Inquisitor Recon]

I don't mind the heatsinks. If anything bothers me about the explanation behind the firearms it is these magic ammo cubes inside the guns that never run out of projectiles to shoot.

[PsyrenY]

Randy1083 wrote...

You don't run out of bullets in ME2.

With sufficiently sustained fire, your gun eventually reaches a state beyond which it becomes a paperweight without more clips. Better?

[Evilatem]

So, each weapon in ME1 had 2 modifier slots for ammo types, heat sinks, frictionless materials, etc.

Shepard has been gone for 2 years.

The weapons power has increased as well as the heat they produce.
The ammo types are now "built" into each weapon, so we lost a modifier slot.
ok.
After the encounter with the Geth in ME1 everyone gained the knowledge to allow for the the heat to be collected and dispersed at once via the thermal clips vs multiple "cool down" time between firings. So the original internal heat sink in each weapon was replaced with the ejectable thermal clips. we didn't loose a modifier slot there.

OK, so......
What happened to the remaining modifier slot?
Why can't I add anything to each weapon's modifier slot?
Why can't I use more frictionless materials to help stave off some more of the heat, thus allowing me to gain more shots before requiring me to swap thermal clips?
What happened to the other mods?:
Combat Sensor/Scanner
Combat Optics
Improved Sighting
Heat Sink
Frictionless Materials
High Caliber Barrel
Rail Extension
Scram Rail
Recoil Damper
Kinetic Stabilizer
Kinetic Coil

and most importantly
Why can't I take out the thermal clip from a weapon I don't use and put in the weapon of my choosing? Why use a thermal clip in the "hand gun" which only get like 54 shots before needing a new thermal clip when I could just as easily drop it into the "assault rifle" or "SMG" and get 350 shots out of the same clip?

Modifié par Evilatem, 24 août 2010 - 04:38 .

[jojon2se]

Much as I hate kind of "siding" with certain unreasonable and rude ones; from a gameplay perspective the heat sinks may just as well be regarded as ammunition, since they fill the exact same gameplay function, even if their technical explanation is completely unrelated.

Unfortunately this out-of-story matter negates most of the in-story benfits they are supposed to give -- at least they mean you don't have to carry different ammo for different weapons; the sinks fit any weapon, with the limitation that you can't take them out and put them in another gun, once mounted, presumably because after that first shot, they are too hot to touch. Also, of course, they can absorb X calories and heat production of arms is proportional to their power, which means you get less shots with more poweful guns.

The above said doesn't mean I agree with the arrogants, though - Me1 and 2 limiting mechanics simply means two subtly different gameplay styles - both decent in their own way. The popping of either cartridge shells, that shouldn't be there, or heatsinks, is only there for visual effect, anyways - eyecandy.

[Kacynski]

Schuey19 wrote...

I'd go with something like this:

Heatsinks would be just another weapon upgrade like the ones from ME1 and how you applied them would shape how your weapon worked.

Standard cooldown spec would work just like ME1 with unlimited ammo but they'd have a lower damage output.

Heatsink/cooldown hybrid would allow a certain number of rounds per heatsink, and would do 25% more damage than standard cooldown. However, once you run out of heatsinks the gun will still fire but will overheat rapidly, eventually becoming unusable until a thermal clip is replaced.

Full heatsink works just as they do in ME2. They'd do 50% more damage than standard cooldown, and have a 25% larger clip size than a hybrid, but the trade-off is that they simply don't fire without a thermal clip.

I just want to see a return to being able to spec my weapons exactly how I'd like rather than how someone thinks I should.

This is actually a solid idea imho. Does fit the lore and actually would explain, why equipping a heat sink mechanism would improve weapons (which did not seem to be the case in ME2).
Would also make sense gameplay-wise, as on a more casual approach you could unlimited ammo with tradeoff in power, but if you go for the full heatsink system you have higher power but also have to make sure that each shot counts.

[nikki191]

I suspect the heatsinks are a result of players complaining the infinite ammo side of weapons in ME was too unrealistic and this was Bioware's compromise..



personally i think the direction with relying totally on heatsinks that are basically defacto ammo clips was a bad design choice. a better compromise would be a significantly reduced rate of fire without a heatsink as many others have suggested

[PWENER]

BW dropped the ball.



[END of THREAD]

[kraidy1117]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

*smashes keyboard*

[PWENER]

kraidy1117 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

*smashes keyboard*

(Scratches head...)