267 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

AdamNW wrote...

Because it's not like the ME1 system was better or anything.

There's more to combat then making a Rainbow Six Las Vegas clone with Mass Effect skins. ME 1 featured class specific combat; now it's USE GUNS MORE GUNS. In that regard, ME is indeed better. ME 2 uitilizes cover a lot more and is much more streamlined, but otherwise it's a worse. It railroads players into having to use firearms more than they use their specialty skills (unless they involve guns), not to mention retconning many aspects from ME for no purpose.

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 25 août 2010 - 01:20 .

[AdamNW]

I made a rather fatal wording error :U

The reason the skills weren't that great in ME2 were because alot of them were useless until the enemy had no armor/etc., and by that time you could already mow them down. It didn't help that they had the SMG's ammo gain be retardedly high.

But I have no idea what you're talking about as far as class specific combat being gone in ME2.  Playing as a Vanguard was WAY different than playing as pretty much any class other than Soldier (and even that is pretty distinct).

Modifié par AdamNW, 25 août 2010 - 01:25 .

[AmericanKoas]

its true that powers were in a way dampened. i think that powers against anything but shields should work. shields are kinetic barriers that stop everything to a point.

in response to the heat sinks.... stop complaining. They made the combat flow more then it did. the reason heat sinks were put in was to help the combat system. Heat sinks from what i understand absorb the heat put out from the weapon. why do you think they have steam coming off them. Overheating was ok but it made the gun less accurate because of the heat messing up the accuracy. so they went to heat sinks so they guns would last longer.

[didymos1120]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...
It railroads players into having to use firearms more than they use their specialty skills (unless they involve guns), not to mention retconning many aspects from ME for no purpose.

That's your problem.  I use abilities constantly, both my own and those of my squadmates.  And melee attacks, depending on the class of that Shep.  Do I have to? No.  But then neither did I have to in ME1.   And what all was retconned exactly?  Because if something is only referenced as a gameplay mechanic, or is simply a different-but-never-referenced gameplay mechanic, then it doesn't really count as a retcon. Only stuff that actually alters the already established story and lore is eligible for the moniker.

Even the thermal clips aren't really a retcon, because they're missing that all important "retroactive" bit (this tends to apply to most of the cries of "RETCON!" that are raised as well).  They're supposed to have been introduced after ME1.  And no, Jacob's loyalty mission doesn't count.  That's just the result of cutting corners to save time (and therefore money). Bad move, I agree, but it's no proper retcon.

Modifié par didymos1120, 25 août 2010 - 02:10 .

[crimzontearz]

AmericanKoas wrote...

its true that powers were in a way dampened. i think that powers against anything but shields should work. shields are kinetic barriers that stop everything to a point.

in response to the heat sinks.... stop complaining. They made the combat flow more then it did. the reason heat sinks were put in was to help the combat system. Heat sinks from what i understand absorb the heat put out from the weapon. why do you think they have steam coming off them. Overheating was ok but it made the gun less accurate because of the heat messing up the accuracy. so they went to heat sinks so they guns would last longer.

uh...shields/barriers should stop hacking attempts? exactly how?

so...a "vent" system sould not be used? You know like the one in GoW? no they had to give us "ammo" to appeal to the shooter crowd?
Stop kidding yourself, Combat would have flowed fine with "ammo" powers not being "superpowers"  and with a vent or cooldown system for the weapons. Heatsinks are basically the result of Bioware wanting to streamline Mass Effect to broaden the audience. Hopefully as Christina said ME3 will be more of an RPG again and we will hopefully have again a semblance of RPG mechanics in combat (and god willing full customizable armor for everyone since the new direction taken with squadmates characterization makes is pure BS among other things).

[tanstaafl28]

By all means, don't suspend your disbelief, nitpick the game apart, then *EPIC FAIL* to enjoy it.

[asaiasai]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

What, everyone complains about heatsinks while there is still no topic about powers not working through protection anymore? Is that ever explained? Does it make sense? I don't think so.

We can fix one thing at a time, once we can convince Bioware to add an option to choose combat mechanics ala ME or ME2 fixing powers should be next. I do also agree the nerf bat that was taken to the powers did not help the heat sink ammo nonsense. It is kind of a chicken or the egg thing, poor power effect means the player needs more ammo, less ammo, less effective ammo means the player needs more effective powers, they both set up the situation to be as intolerable as it is. Fortunatly i am a PC gamer so as always it seems to be up to the mod community to fix the poor execution poor design of the developers, as a PC gamer i have access to the necessary fixes.

Asai

[Computer_God91]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
...wall of text...

Yes, you're absolutely right. BioWare made a major retcon for no reason and to no gain.

ME1 > ME2 in absolutely every way, save for graphics.

Wow, I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with you. 
*sigh* Bioware just a side note, GoW has pretty ****ty combat itself why would you copy it?

[Computer_God91]

crimzontearz wrote...

AmericanKoas wrote...

its true that powers were in a way dampened. i think that powers against anything but shields should work. shields are kinetic barriers that stop everything to a point.

in response to the heat sinks.... stop complaining. They made the combat flow more then it did. the reason heat sinks were put in was to help the combat system. Heat sinks from what i understand absorb the heat put out from the weapon. why do you think they have steam coming off them. Overheating was ok but it made the gun less accurate because of the heat messing up the accuracy. so they went to heat sinks so they guns would last longer.

uh...shields/barriers should stop hacking attempts? exactly how?

so...a "vent" system sould not be used? You know like the one in GoW? no they had to give us "ammo" to appeal to the shooter crowd?
Stop kidding yourself, Combat would have flowed fine with "ammo" powers not being "superpowers"  and with a vent or cooldown system for the weapons. Heatsinks are basically the result of Bioware wanting to streamline Mass Effect to broaden the audience. Hopefully as Christina said ME3 will be more of an RPG again and we will hopefully have again a semblance of RPG mechanics in combat (and god willing full customizable armor for everyone since the new direction taken with squadmates characterization makes is pure BS among other things).

haha, You know sometimes I just want to tell Bioware. "Hey, you reeled in the shooter crowd and got a broader audience, now that you have them hooked switch it back to how it was because it was better."

[PsyrenY]

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm...no.....that's even more BS  because then an armored/shielded soldier would be immune to artificial gravity. Worse it does not explain how it would stop powers like shockwave where the mass effect field is focused elsewhere. 

Also does not explain how an armored mech is immune to hacking OR if shields/barriers prevent hacking and other tech powers why are they not preventing digital communication altogether

I can rationalize all of those things. You've made up your mind to hate the system though, so there isn't much point in me sharing.

I'm sorry you're not having fun, I guess.

[Moiaussi]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
...wall of text...

Yes, you're absolutely right. BioWare made a major retcon for no reason and to no gain.

ME1 > ME2 in absolutely every way, save for graphics.

Wow, I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with you. 
*sigh* Bioware just a side note, GoW has pretty ****ty combat itself why would you copy it?

For me the writing was better in ME 1, but the combat is much better in ME 2 (depsite the heat sinks).

Now if only they can keep the best parts of the combat and build a better story around it....

[asaiasai]

Optimystic_X wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm...no.....that's even more BS  because then an armored/shielded soldier would be immune to artificial gravity. Worse it does not explain how it would stop powers like shockwave where the mass effect field is focused elsewhere. 

Also does not explain how an armored mech is immune to hacking OR if shields/barriers prevent hacking and other tech powers why are they not preventing digital communication altogether

I can rationalize all of those things. You've made up your mind to hate the system though, so there isn't much point in me sharing.

I'm sorry you're not having fun, I guess.

There are folks who like the ME2 system, those that do not, and those that would like a hybrid type system. The problem is we are arguing amongst ourselves when we should be taking Bioware to task to implement an option system where the player can have a choice, this way everybody wins. Bioware does not have to spend any time desiging and implementing a new system just give the player an option to play thier way and the debate is over.

Asai

[HTTP 404]

is me1 better than me2? also are shooters retarded? Does bioware a non-profit company doing charity work for fans? does it really matter that heatsinks reload a HALF A SECOND slower than codex says?

like Sten would say to all those questions

No\\\\

Modifié par HTTP 404, 25 août 2010 - 07:46 .

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...
It railroads players into having to use firearms more than they use their specialty skills (unless they involve guns), not to mention retconning many aspects from ME for no purpose.

That's your problem.  I use abilities constantly, both my own and those of my squadmates.  And melee attacks, depending on the class of that Shep.  Do I have to? No.  But then neither did I have to in ME1.   And what all was retconned exactly?  Because if something is only referenced as a gameplay mechanic, or is simply a different-but-never-referenced gameplay mechanic, then it doesn't really count as a retcon. Only stuff that actually alters the already established story and lore is eligible for the moniker.

Even the thermal clips aren't really a retcon, because they're missing that all important "retroactive" bit (this tends to apply to most of the cries of "RETCON!" that are raised as well).  They're supposed to have been introduced after ME1.  And no, Jacob's loyalty mission doesn't count.  That's just the result of cutting corners to save time (and therefore money). Bad move, I agree, but it's no proper retcon.

It's not "my" problem, it's a problem for everyone whose class' mechanics have been changed. Suddenly biotics don't do act the way they used to, with the line of thinking simply being "because they don't". "Adepts have to use pistols for XYZ", okay fine. Now "biotics can use XYZABC" and can only effect enemies when their magical barriers are removed. That's a bunch of crap. Changing how abilities effect enemies, when nothing has changed to indicate why between games, is retcon through-and-through. Insanity mode just makes it worse. Yeah, 'my problem'. Whatever dude.

Thermal clips are NOT a retcon, but them acting like ammunition indeed is. Thankfully this can be changed by editing that coalesced.ini file.

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 25 août 2010 - 07:52 .

[asaiasai]

The problem is as has been pointed out that the game powers no longer work like they used to, why is anybody's guess. What this creates is a situation where the biotics and techs are pretty much rendered useless. I have to expend 24 rounds to drop the barriers, which the biotics should be able to disable. I then have to expend 24 rounds to get past the armor which the techs should be able to disable. Then i can shoot them 2 times in the face. What this does is completely negate the other classes, biotics and techs are pointless because every fight becomes a slugging match. This would not be a big deal in ME but because i have to count bullets ME2 there is no point to bring any other classes but your hitters. How can this be better for the game when every encounter can only be handled by Grunt, Garius, Zaaed who do not count bullets. To a degree this would not be a problem except for the fact that the AI is brain dead.



If not for the modified ini file i use ME2 would be collecting dust, but this does not bode well for me purchasing ME3 until the mod community fixes what is broken, or Bioware removes the problem entirely. So by making ME2 rely totally on bullets makes it nothing but a shooter, and i have to say there are better shooters for the PC right now.



Asai

[Massadonious1]

I'm sorry you all can't spam Singularity anymore.

[LuxDragon]

I would like a mix between ME 1/2. The gun cools down on its own, but if you're in a rush, pop the heat sink and keep on shooting. Until you run out of heat sinks. Then you're back to pure ME 1.



At the very least, Sniper Rifles get more than 2 shots. ME 2 has ME beat in that regard.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm sorry you all can't spam Singularity anymore.

What are you talking about? Singularity is the only power that can be used now repeatedly. It stuns enemies regardless of what armor/shields they have. Adept Insanity gameplay is as such: Singularity-Shoot-Shoot-Shoot-Singularity-Shoot-Shoot-Shoot.

And another question is why do you care? Are you competing against other players?

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 25 août 2010 - 09:16 .

[ShadoX_LV]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Because it's not like the ME1 system was better or anything.

There's more to combat then making a Rainbow Six Las Vegas clone with Mass Effect skins. ME 1 featured class specific combat; now it's USE GUNS MORE GUNS. In that regard, ME is indeed better. ME 2 uitilizes cover a lot more and is much more streamlined, but otherwise it's a worse. It railroads players into having to use firearms more than they use their specialty skills (unless they involve guns), not to mention retconning many aspects from ME for no purpose.

Kinda funny because I actually ended up using biotics more and more towards the end of the game.. I was playing it like a shooter mostly all the time. Biotics do work, but then.. I was playing a Solder and all I had was some projectile attack.. :|

AdamNW wrote...

I made a rather fatal wording error :U

The
reason the skills weren't that great in ME2 were because alot of them
were useless until the enemy had no armor/etc., and by that time you
could already mow them down. It didn't help that they had the SMG's
ammo gain be retardedly high.

But I have no idea what you're
talking about as far as class specific combat being gone in ME2.
 Playing as a Vanguard was WAY different than playing as pretty much any
class other than Soldier (and even that is pretty distinct).

Yeah, that was kinda stupid.. liek where is the point in having biotic powers, if you have to shoot your enemies most of the time only to drain their armor/shields.. and by that time you migt as well finish them off with your gun..

I'm not sure how those worked in the first game because I barely used them..

But it should make for a nice repeated playthrough.. =)

[asaiasai]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm sorry you all can't spam Singularity anymore.

What are you talking about? Singularity is the only power that can be used now repeatedly. It stuns enemies regardless of what armor/shields they have. Adept Insanity gameplay is as such: Singularity-Shoot-Shoot-Shoot-Singularity-Shoot-Shoot-Shoot.

And another question is why do you care? Are you competing against other players?

Sure does seem that way sometimes with the invective people use to protect game balance. A single player experience should be as balanced as the player in the game wants it to be. Since my game experience has no effect on your game experience i can not see the point. If Bioware adds a few options for the player to select to customize thier experience how can an argument be made against this. I am not shooting against anyone, i am not shooting with anyone, so what difference does it make?

Asai

[JedTed]

The only beef i have with the thermal clip story justification is the fact that in ME1 one you were able to upgrade your gun with a high quality heatsink so that it NEVER overheated. Ofcorse that then made the whole overheating mechanic pointless towards the end of the game.

[tonnactus]

JedTed wrote...

The only beef i have with the thermal clip story justification is the fact that in ME1 one you were able to upgrade your gun with a high quality heatsink so that it NEVER overheated. Ofcorse that then made the whole overheating mechanic pointless towards the end of the game.

Thats right.Thermal clips make only sense at best for merc groups that use cheap guns(and even then only occasionly when strong supressive fire is needed). But not for spectres and cerberus operatives who have access to high-tech-mods.

[Razor_Zeng]

ExtremeOne wrote...



wow the stupid video game forum crap of calling people trolls. Oh I am sorry you can not handle logic and the understanding that guns fire bullets and eject the bullet casing and Bioware corrected the mistake from Mass Effect 1 in Mass Effect 2. The weapon system in Mass Effect 1 was a joke and some of the most un logical bull sh*t in games ever. i see whats wrong you do not like that i am not a Mass Effect 1 **** kisser

I agree. Its perfectly non-logical for guns to fire mass accelerated slivers of metal that do kinetic damage when I am on another freaking planet wearing my futuristic space suit and throwing around people like a jedi does! How dare they not use guns from this day and age and force us out of realism in to some stupid future stuff! ...

Evilatem wrote...



So, each weapon in ME1 had 2 modifier slots for ammo types, heat sinks, frictionless materials, etc.



Shepard has been gone for 2 years.



The weapons power has increased as well as the heat they produce.

The ammo types are now "built" into each weapon, so we lost a modifier slot.

ok.

After the encounter with the Geth in ME1 everyone gained the knowledge to allow for the the heat to be collected and dispersed at once via the thermal clips vs multiple "cool down" time between firings. So the original internal heat sink in each weapon was replaced with the ejectable thermal clips. we didn't loose a modifier slot there.

Funny thing is if you go back and play ME1 with Geth weapons they dont have heatsinks and cool down just like the normal guns! .. Geth used the same tech everyone else did.

Evilatem wrote...



and most importantly

Why can't I take out the thermal clip from a weapon I don't use and put in the weapon of my choosing? Why use a thermal clip in the "hand gun" which only get like 54 shots before needing a new thermal clip when I could just as easily drop it into the "assault rifle" or "SMG" and get 350 shots out of the same clip?

Bingo. Biggest problem right there. Second biggest really. First is why I have to dump my overheating thermal pack on the ground and go hunting another one. Heat disipates and thus those thermal clips should call down naturally.

nikki191 wrote...



I suspect the heatsinks are a result of players complaining the infinite ammo side of weapons in ME was too unrealistic and this was Bioware's compromise..



personally i think the direction with relying totally on heatsinks that are basically defacto ammo clips was a bad design choice. a better compromise would be a significantly reduced rate of fire without a heatsink as many others have suggested

Id say it was a design change made by BioWare to make the game more shooter like rather then complaints about a system that worked fine. The only time my gun overheated was when I put explosive rounds in to my snipe (Yay for explosions!)

[Daeion]

AdamNW wrote...

Because it's not like the ME1 system was worse.  Not at all.

Lore doesn't mean much to me in a game with boring gameplay.  Because I wouldn't be playing it .

lore and story > gameplay

also, the combat system worked just fine in ME for the type of game that it was, an RPG with shooter elements

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Because it's not like the ME1 system was better or anything.

There's more to combat then making a Rainbow Six Las Vegas clone with Mass Effect skins. ME 1 featured class specific combat; now it's USE GUNS MORE GUNS. In that regard, ME is indeed better. ME 2 uitilizes cover a lot more and is much more streamlined, but otherwise it's a worse. It railroads players into having to use firearms more than they use their specialty skills (unless they involve guns)...

This does not match my gameplay experience with ME2. 

I use my powers and my squadmates powers constantly, often waiting on the split second they refresh, and the only class I don't like is the Vanguard.  I've found the power-heavy Adept, Sentinel, and Engineer to be just as interesting to play as the weapon-heavier Soldier and Infiltrator.