267 réponses à ce sujet

[Daeion]

AdamNW wrote...

I made a rather fatal wording error :U

The reason the skills weren't that great in ME2 were because alot of them were useless until the enemy had no armor/etc., and by that time you could already mow them down. It didn't help that they had the SMG's ammo gain be retardedly high.

But I have no idea what you're talking about as far as class specific combat being gone in ME2.  Playing as a Vanguard was WAY different than playing as pretty much any class other than Soldier (and even that is pretty distinct).

I think what they are getting at is the fact that in ME if you were playing a biotic you could use your powers right away, so your were lifting people to begin with and then taking them down.  However in ME2 you need to mow someone down before you can use powers on people and by the time you've broken down the defenses to a point where you can use the abilities you might as well just keep using your gun instead of then trying to use your abilities.  Now that's not to say that it's the only way to play, but then again double frictionless materials wasn't the only way to play but people keep using that as an excuse for why the system needed to be changed.

[Daeion]

AmericanKoas wrote...

its true that powers were in a way dampened. i think that powers against anything but shields should work. shields are kinetic barriers that stop everything to a point.

in response to the heat sinks.... stop complaining. They made the combat flow more then it did. the reason heat sinks were put in was to help the combat system. Heat sinks from what i understand absorb the heat put out from the weapon. why do you think they have steam coming off them. Overheating was ok but it made the gun less accurate because of the heat messing up the accuracy. so they went to heat sinks so they guns would last longer.

I don't think heatsinks were needed but w/e, it's part of the gameplay now.  I see two reasons why people tend to not like heatsinks.

1.  The ME system was unique while still in theroy and having weapons rely upon cooling down still made it feel like you had a limited amount of ammo during a fight while at the same time rewarding more skillful play cy reducing how fast a weapon overheated if you used controled bursts instead of spray and pray.  Unfortunately people found a way to break the system and the AI never took advantage of you having an overheated weapon.  The ME2 system feels like a cheap shooter ammo system rip off and thus is no longer unique.

2. Lore wise it doesn't make sense to go from weapons that only ran out of ammo after 4000 shots (if I remember the codex) to weapons that rely upon expendable ammo sources and the plot holes that followed.  Now sure, for short firefights the heatsink system is superior as long as you're someone who sprays and prays while being to reload a heatsink faster then waiting for your weapon to cool down.  However if you are skilled enough to control your fire then you'll get a larger advantage from the original system beacuse you wouldn't be overheating your weapon as often.  Now my feeling is that they should have implimented a hybrid system.  Still introduce the idea of heatsinks for intense firefights while still allowing weapons to cooldown outside of combat to regenerate 1 clips worth of shots.

A thought.  If you're an elite soldier that goes on long missions where you can only bring a limited number of supplies, are you going to want a gun that puts more shots down range but runs out of ammo or one that maybe puts shots down range at a slightly slower pace but takes much, much longer to run out of ammo?

[Daeion]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...
It railroads players into having to use firearms more than they use their specialty skills (unless they involve guns), not to mention retconning many aspects from ME for no purpose.

That's your problem.  I use abilities constantly, both my own and those of my squadmates.  And melee attacks, depending on the class of that Shep.  Do I have to? No.  But then neither did I have to in ME1.   And what all was retconned exactly?  Because if something is only referenced as a gameplay mechanic, or is simply a different-but-never-referenced gameplay mechanic, then it doesn't really count as a retcon. Only stuff that actually alters the already established story and lore is eligible for the moniker.

Even the thermal clips aren't really a retcon, because they're missing that all important "retroactive" bit (this tends to apply to most of the cries of "RETCON!" that are raised as well).  They're supposed to have been introduced after ME1.  And no, Jacob's loyalty mission doesn't count.  That's just the result of cutting corners to save time (and therefore money). Bad move, I agree, but it's no proper retcon.

Just like people didn't need to use double frictionless materials and yet they did and always use the spray and pray mentality that it reinforced as a reason for the system needing to be changed.  There's a difference between using a class the way it was intended to be used, as you are doing, and as it ends up playing out.

I believe in both games the ammo system for that game is discussed so the mechanics are established in the lore.  Therefore you are correct in the statement that Jacob's loyalty mission isn't a retcon because it's not as if they are trying to say that these weapons existed 10 years ago, it is however a huge plot hole.

[In Exile]

The explanation makes no sense because the real explanation is that they wanted to design a new combat system. They could have just retconned the whole thing, but then people would be up in arms about how there are incoherent changes in the game lore. So they tried to add lore to explain them to pacify the crowd.

This, of course, is bound to fail because the actual reason, again, is that they wanted to swap gameplay.

[jklinders]

Skipped most of the debate.



I think the answer you are really looking for crimsontears is "do not look at the man behind the curtain". For their own reasons Bioware decided to change the firearms to have a more limited ammo to improve the gameplay. In my opinion it was an improvement. Gun battles in ME 2 are superior in every way to those in ME1. The problem is the very shoddy way they tried to hand wave it off. The codex should have just had a pure retcon in it that did not even acknowledge the old system at all. Why not? It was just a gameplay element any and had little to do with the narrative.



I have had a another of my very rare agreements with Zulu in that tech or biotic powers should not be unlimited. They should be more powerful but with limits or drawbacks that makes spamming them undesirable or impossible. That way the non gun play oriented classes have meaning. But spraying an endless stream of bullets out of a handgun does not appeal to me. This is simply because it IS a good mechanic that you should need to be careful with your ammo stock.

[Homebound]

MadCat221 wrote...

Guns should obey thermodynamics again and cool off on their own.

Biotics should have more running stamina, but have biotics also drain that stamina.

Techies should use OmniGel as "mana" for their tech powers.

Mass Effect is not a Fantasy MMORPG. We already have power cool-downs. Let it be. I dont want to need to have Mana Potions in the game.

[Moiaussi]

Just_mike wrote...

Mass Effect is not a Fantasy MMORPG. We already have power cool-downs. Let it be. I dont want to need to have Mana Potions in the game.

So... any form of fuel, ammunition, or raw material requirements = mana potions?

[Daeion]

jklinders wrote...

Skipped most of the debate.

I think the answer you are really looking for crimsontears is "do not look at the man behind the curtain". For their own reasons Bioware decided to change the firearms to have a more limited ammo to improve the gameplay. In my opinion it was an improvement. Gun battles in ME 2 are superior in every way to those in ME1. The problem is the very shoddy way they tried to hand wave it off. The codex should have just had a pure retcon in it that did not even acknowledge the old system at all. Why not? It was just a gameplay element any and had little to do with the narrative.

I have had a another of my very rare agreements with Zulu in that tech or biotic powers should not be unlimited. They should be more powerful but with limits or drawbacks that makes spamming them undesirable or impossible. That way the non gun play oriented classes have meaning. But spraying an endless stream of bullets out of a handgun does not appeal to me. This is simply because it IS a good mechanic that you should need to be careful with your ammo stock.

You and I obviously disagree on the idea that this change was needed and made the gameplay better.  But I don't see how we can disagree that your last comment has no bearing in any part of ME2 except for on the hardest difficulty.  I mean think about the archangel story and how after each wave the thermal clips respawn in the exact same area.  I didn't need to be careful with ammo at all.

[RiouHotaru]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Because it's not like the ME1 system was better or anything.

There's more to combat then making a Rainbow Six Las Vegas clone with Mass Effect skins. ME 1 featured class specific combat; now it's USE GUNS MORE GUNS. In that regard, ME is indeed better. ME 2 uitilizes cover a lot more and is much more streamlined, but otherwise it's a worse. It railroads players into having to use firearms more than they use their specialty skills (unless they involve guns)...

This does not match my gameplay experience with ME2. 

I use my powers and my squadmates powers constantly, often waiting on the split second they refresh, and the only class I don't like is the Vanguard.  I've found the power-heavy Adept, Sentinel, and Engineer to be just as interesting to play as the weapon-heavier Soldier and Infiltrator.

As an Infiltrator myself I found myself using my tech skills a lot as well.  I honestly don't see where the complaints are coming from here.  Heck I probably used my tech skills MORE often than my guns, but then I wasn't playing on Insanity.  If you want an experience where guns aren't your primary power, don't play on Hardcore/Insanity.  Also, powers not working through Shields/Armor/Barrier is perfectly legit.  Even if they worked at a penalty (reduced effect, reduced duration) several powers are still super broke, like Neural Shock or Slam, which produced long, forced recovery animations on enemies.  And given the fact Neural Shock has a base THREE SECOND cooldown?  Yeah.

As for heatsinks, the lore doesn't contradict or conflict with the story whatsoever.  The heatsinks, as stated in the Codex, are the logical progression of small arms technology advancement.  Nothing about them conflicts with the story.

[jklinders]

Daeion wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Skipped most of the debate.

I think the answer you are really looking for crimsontears is "do not look at the man behind the curtain". For their own reasons Bioware decided to change the firearms to have a more limited ammo to improve the gameplay. In my opinion it was an improvement. Gun battles in ME 2 are superior in every way to those in ME1. The problem is the very shoddy way they tried to hand wave it off. The codex should have just had a pure retcon in it that did not even acknowledge the old system at all. Why not? It was just a gameplay element any and had little to do with the narrative.

I have had a another of my very rare agreements with Zulu in that tech or biotic powers should not be unlimited. They should be more powerful but with limits or drawbacks that makes spamming them undesirable or impossible. That way the non gun play oriented classes have meaning. But spraying an endless stream of bullets out of a handgun does not appeal to me. This is simply because it IS a good mechanic that you should need to be careful with your ammo stock.

You and I obviously disagree on the idea that this change was needed and made the gameplay better.  But I don't see how we can disagree that your last comment has no bearing in any part of ME2 except for on the hardest difficulty.  I mean think about the archangel story and how after each wave the thermal clips respawn in the exact same area.  I didn't need to be careful with ammo at all.

Depends on your class really. While the clips are not in short supply, you run out of stots pretty fast when using a mantis sniper rifle in that scene. Then you have scave the weirdly respawning clips to get more shots. The ME1 system worked for ME1 because accuracy was handled differently. A lot of shots were wasted because invisible dice rolls caused the shots to miss. At least until you put enough points in weapon skills so that your suppoesedly top notch marine can hit the broad side of a barn from inside the barn.

No invisible dice on the to hit meter in ME2. Reduces frustration for some.(I'm not really bothered by it too much) But because every shot goes EXACTLY where you aim in ME2 some kind of balance needed to be introduced. Unlimited ammo+100% accuracy=equals god mode.

[Killjoy Cutter]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

AdamNW wrote...

Because it's not like the ME1 system was better or anything.

There's more to combat then making a Rainbow Six Las Vegas clone with Mass Effect skins. ME 1 featured class specific combat; now it's USE GUNS MORE GUNS. In that regard, ME is indeed better. ME 2 uitilizes cover a lot more and is much more streamlined, but otherwise it's a worse. It railroads players into having to use firearms more than they use their specialty skills (unless they involve guns)...

This does not match my gameplay experience with ME2. 

I use my powers and my squadmates powers constantly, often waiting on the split second they refresh, and the only class I don't like is the Vanguard.  I've found the power-heavy Adept, Sentinel, and Engineer to be just as interesting to play as the weapon-heavier Soldier and Infiltrator.

As an Infiltrator myself I found myself using my tech skills a lot as well.  I honestly don't see where the complaints are coming from here.  Heck I probably used my tech skills MORE often than my guns, but then I wasn't playing on Insanity.  If you want an experience where guns aren't your primary power, don't play on Hardcore/Insanity.  Also, powers not working through Shields/Armor/Barrier is perfectly legit.  Even if they worked at a penalty (reduced effect, reduced duration) several powers are still super broke, like Neural Shock or Slam, which produced long, forced recovery animations on enemies.  And given the fact Neural Shock has a base THREE SECOND cooldown?  Yeah.

With Soldier or Inflitrator, my "bonus" power is Reave.  I love it. 

With the other classes, I find that adding yet another power is redundant, and I take Garrus' Armor Piercing Ammo.

[tonnactus]

RiouHotaru wrote...
 Also, powers not working through Shields/Armor/Barrier is perfectly legit.

No,it is stupid. Its like a jedi has to remove the shields/armor of a shocktrooper and only then could use the force.

 Even if they worked at a penalty (reduced effect, reduced duration) several powers are still super broke, like Neural Shock or Slam, which produced long, forced recovery animations on enemies.  And given the fact Neural Shock has a base THREE SECOND cooldown? 

Solution:Cooldown penalty for all powers.(work anyway like this because of the global cooldown)And singularity already is a power that works despite enemies having protection.

As for heatsinks, the lore doesn't contradict or conflict with the story whatsoever.  The heatsinks, as stated in the Codex, are the logical progression of small arms technology advancement. 

Only for third class merc groups.Not for spectres and even rich warlords.

[Skyblade012]

RiouHotaru wrote...
 Also, powers not working through Shields/Armor/Barrier is perfectly legit.

Yeah, sorry, but it's not.  It doesn't fit in with the lore at all.  Kinetic barriers are constantly described as affecting only projectiles.  They don't even activate unless the combat suit's VI detects incoming projectiles (which is why you can sit down without knocking your chair away).  But even more, having shields up while being hit with a biotic field would probably do more damage to you, not less, since two opposing mass effect fields have the tendency to interfere with each other and shred targets.

[PsyrenY]

Skyblade012 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
 Also, powers not working through Shields/Armor/Barrier is perfectly legit.

Yeah, sorry, but it's not.  It doesn't fit in with the lore at all.  Kinetic barriers are constantly described as affecting only projectiles.  They don't even activate unless the combat suit's VI detects incoming projectiles (which is why you can sit down without knocking your chair away).  But even more, having shields up while being hit with a biotic field would probably do more damage to you, not less, since two opposing mass effect fields have the tendency to interfere with each other and shred targets.

The shield starts a small distance away from your person (let your shields get hit and then recharge; you will see the "bubble" clearly for an instant.) So any disruption/shredding effect won't touch you.

As for kinetic barriers, why would they only affect projectiles? You yourself just admitted that mass effect fields interact with each other and cancel out - and that's what all biotic powers are.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 25 août 2010 - 08:22 .

[ShadoX_LV]

jklinders wrote...
Depends on your class really. While the clips are not in short supply, you run out of stots pretty fast when using a mantis sniper rifle in that scene. Then you have scave the weirdly respawning clips to get more shots. The ME1 system worked for ME1 because accuracy was handled differently. A lot of shots were wasted because invisible dice rolls caused the shots to miss. At least until you put enough points in weapon skills so that your suppoesedly top notch marine can hit the broad side of a barn from inside the barn.

No invisible dice on the to hit meter in ME2. Reduces frustration for some.(I'm not really bothered by it too much) But because every shot goes EXACTLY where you aim in ME2 some kind of balance needed to be introduced. Unlimited ammo+100% accuracy=equals god mode.

I wouldn't really call it god mode.. Just because they wanted to balance things doesn't mean that their supposed to remove somthing that was good about the game.. I actually can't think of a single game that would have come out during the last years where I would have seen a developer remove something that was actually good about the game.. (some might say Resistance 2 on the ps3 but I liked the game and was fine with the changes that they did..)

Its kinda funny how that works.. I played the first game and loved it despite the few flaws that it has.. BW imidiatelly went up on my favorite developers list.. then I played the second game and as great as the game was.. I was so dissapointed by seeing such a great developer like BioWare downgrading such a great game like Mass Effect..  Its simply sad to see something like that...

Modifié par ShadoX_LV, 25 août 2010 - 10:45 .

[Mithrennon]

What I would have preferred is a mix of both.

Have the weapons use thermal clips so you have to reload, but instead of just throwing a thermal clip away, switch one out and plug the other one in a backpack or belt or whatever that has a few radiator fins that extend to radiate away the excess heat.



So basically you need to reload, but your ammo is still unlimited.

And instead of upgrading ammo capacity, upgrade your radiators so your clips cool down faster.

Also you could wait for an enemy to extend their cooling fins (which would be at their back, away from you) and try to shoot them off, so they can't fire as much anymore.

At that point they, or you if they get you, would have to actually try to get clips from enemies.

Never gonna happen, but that'd be the system I'd take over ME1 or ME2 any time.



Oh yeah, and powers not affecting protected enemies has got to go.

I like being able to strip away any protection with my engineer + reave but it'd still be more fun.



Also, global cooldown makes me cry. *sigh*

[The Spamming Troll]

the problem is ME2s combat is that its gunplay elements are awesome and its ability useage is pretty bad. i really like the weapons and there uses in the game and i dont think there needs to be much change in variety or stule of weapons. i would like to see a return to the overheating we had in ME1. i raraley run out of ammo. rarely! and im sure thats exactly the same thing you do when you play. i dont see a reason to have added the heat sinks when you can get full ammo just by running over 3 heat sinks. that makes less sense to me then a gun that simply overheats if used too much. plus it made ME1s gunplay different from other 3rd person shooters. the aspect of gunplay really dont need any tweaking for ME3, but the abilities need a complete overhaul.



ME2s abilities are USELESS on higher difficulties. thats the bottom line. global cooldowns suck. i do like the visual we have for knowing when i can use biotics again, but telling me i cant use a lift IMEDIATLEY followed by a throw makes no sense to me if im making a game that people are supposed to enjoy.



theres alot of things id change in terms of abilities in ME3 like enemy protections, global cooldowns. theres no reason to play the higher levels of difficulty unless you like playing games that are the exact opposite of what ME should be. is there any reason to invest talent points when you play insanity?

[crimzontearz]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
 Also, powers not working through Shields/Armor/Barrier is perfectly legit.

Yeah, sorry, but it's not.  It doesn't fit in with the lore at all.  Kinetic barriers are constantly described as affecting only projectiles.  They don't even activate unless the combat suit's VI detects incoming projectiles (which is why you can sit down without knocking your chair away).  But even more, having shields up while being hit with a biotic field would probably do more damage to you, not less, since two opposing mass effect fields have the tendency to interfere with each other and shred targets.

The shield starts a small distance away from your person (let your shields get hit and then recharge; you will see the "bubble" clearly for an instant.) So any disruption/shredding effect won't touch you.

As for kinetic barriers, why would they only affect projectiles? You yourself just admitted that mass effect fields interact with each other and cancel out - and that's what all biotic powers are.

uh.....several powers create mass effect fields that do not "hit" directly the target but just create an explosion or a gust of inverted gravity (like shockwave or slam)....so by your logic an armored or shielded opponent should be immune to artificial gravity on a ship created by Mass Effect Fields.

and how do you explain armor for instance stopping hacking attempts?

[Mithrennon]

Edit....eh, wrong topic. Ignore this post.

Modifié par Mithrennon, 26 août 2010 - 12:17 .

[AmericanKoas]

look heat sinks are not ammo. they have a certain amount of heat they can cool before they must be ejected and replaced. the counter at the bottom for ammo is the amount of bullets that the thermal clip can cool before its absorbed too much heat.

The infinite shooting in ME 1 is very cool but annoying it makes the game too much of a just spray. I got the specter assault rifle with the best heat sink and other stuff and fired for 2 maybe 3 minutes straight then it took 5 seconds at most to cool down then firing again. Even in a sci fi shooter that is total BS. Heat sinks were made for the sole purpose of taking to overheating out of the question. that said Boiware did not give Shepard enough thermal clips.    Also not all powers are useless only the ones that could dispatch enemies in a second. like throw or lift. warp works on everything armor best and overload is the same. In ME 2 the only powers that don’t work unless unshielded are (pull, throw, slam, shockwave. Usually works for me by throwing even shielded people, hacking, neural shock, and something else) Warp, overload, singularity, cryo blast, and incinerate are all effective against shielded or armored enemies. It does not instantly kill them like in ME 1 but rather helps you defeat their advanced defenses. If that’s worth complaining about soo much do it somewhere else

[crimzontearz]

AmericanKoas wrote...

look heat sinks are not ammo. they have a certain amount of heat they can cool before they must be ejected and replaced. the counter at the bottom for ammo is the amount of bullets that the thermal clip can cool before its absorbed too much heat.

The infinite shooting in ME 1 is very cool but annoying it makes the game too much of a just spray. I got the specter assault rifle with the best heat sink and other stuff and fired for 2 maybe 3 minutes straight then it took 5 seconds at most to cool down then firing again. Even in a sci fi shooter that is total BS. Heat sinks were made for the sole purpose of taking to overheating out of the question. that said Boiware did not give Shepard enough thermal clips.    Also not all powers are useless only the ones that could dispatch enemies in a second. like throw or lift. warp works on everything armor best and overload is the same. In ME 2 the only powers that don’t work unless unshielded are (pull, throw, slam, shockwave. Usually works for me by throwing even shielded people, hacking, neural shock, and something else) Warp, overload, singularity, cryo blast, and incinerate are all effective against shielded or armored enemies. It does not instantly kill them like in ME 1 but rather helps you defeat their advanced defenses. If that’s worth complaining about soo much do it somewhere else

uhm......warp/Incinerate/Overload/Reave are MADE to to take defenses down....Warp/Reave for armor and Barriers and health (reave does not work as well on synthetics), Overload(and energy drain) for Shields and synthetics' health, Incinerate for Armor, health and Regenerative factors.....OF COURSE they are effective against defenses that is what they are supposed to do.  And that is also why any OTHER power on insanity (save for Singularity) is pretty much useless since EVERY single enemy gets defenses and using guns and spamming defense-stripping powers is the only way to go.

Again someone needs to explain to me how Tech Armor Shields or Barrier prevent hacking attempts for instance (and yes hacking and nearual shock do not work on shielded opponents at all)

[PsyrenY]

crimzontearz wrote...

uh.....several powers create mass effect fields that do not "hit" directly the target but just create an explosion or a gust of inverted gravity (like shockwave or slam)....so by your logic an armored or shielded opponent should be immune to artificial gravity on a ship created by Mass Effect Fields.

1) Artificial gravity is caused by rotation (see the Citadel's codex entry), not by mass effect fields (at least, not directly.) And even without it, the spacesuits have magnetic boots - this is how shepard and crew scaled the side of the Citadel Tower near the climax of ME1. Pull and Shockwave are merely strong enough to overcome those forces IF the mass effect fields are allowed to coalesce on the target rather than being disrupted by existing barriers or ablated by sufficiently reflective material.

2) The powers you mentioned do hit the target if he has no protection, resulting in the expected effects.

crimzontearz wrote...
and how do you explain armor for instance stopping hacking attempts?

We know that dense materials can block wireless communication - Elanos Haliat uses this against you when you go down into his base to recover his stolen nuclear device in ME1. Thus, it is understandable that armor plating can attenuate a wireless hacking attempt enough to be resistable.

Like I said, you can justify anything with sufficient imagination. Immersion is in the mind of the beholder.

EDIT: Almost anything. I see no reason why my guns can't cool off if I'm not firing them. I agree with a hybrid ME1/ME2 gun system - thermal clips for sustained fire, gun-cooling when we run out.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 26 août 2010 - 02:12 .

[crimzontearz]

Optimystic_X wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uh.....several powers create mass effect fields that do not "hit" directly the target but just create an explosion or a gust of inverted gravity (like shockwave or slam)....so by your logic an armored or shielded opponent should be immune to artificial gravity on a ship created by Mass Effect Fields.

1) Artificial gravity is caused by rotation (see the Citadel's codex entry), not by mass effect fields (at least, not directly.) And even without it, the spacesuits have magnetic boots - this is how shepard and crew scaled the side of the Citadel Tower near the climax of ME1. Pull and Shockwave are merely strong enough to overcome those forces IF the mass effect fields are allowed to coalesce on the target rather than being disrupted by existing barriers or ablated by sufficiently reflective material.

2) The powers you mentioned do hit the target if he has no protection, resulting in the expected effects.

crimzontearz wrote...
and how do you explain armor for instance stopping hacking attempts?

We know that dense materials can block wireless communication - Elanos Haliat uses this against you when you go down into his base to recover his stolen nuclear device in ME1. Thus, it is understandable that armor plating can attenuate a wireless hacking attempt enough to be resistable.

Like I said, you can justify anything with sufficient imagination. Immersion is in the mind of the beholder.

LOL please YOU read the codex because while the AG on the citadel is created by rotation, on every other ship it  is created by Mass Effect fields

Unless, you know, you believe Joker keeps making the normandy rotate on its axis to keep the artificial gravity going.

......so...once again....armored or shielded soldiers on said ships should be immune to their artificial Gravity (and the magnetic boots excuse is bull and you know it). Even if that was not so the whole "defense stops biotics" is just as much of a retcon as Heatsinks since I could very well use  lift successfully in ME1 on a fully shileded colossus

also

Dense Materials, as in TONS of it over your head, might impede communications but we are talkign about BODY armor, which by your logic should also prevent armored/shielded soldiers to radio each other and prevent any kind of data sharing on the field.

sorry your "rationalization" fails

Modifié par crimzontearz, 26 août 2010 - 02:17 .

[PsyrenY]

crimzontearz wrote...

LOL please YOU read the codex because while the AG on the citadel is created by rotation, on every other ship it
is created by Mass Effect fields

Unless, you know, you believe Joker keeps making the normany rotate on its axis to keep the artificial gravity going.

1) Nobody wears armor on the ship, so that can't be used to prove your theory. The one time we see Shep do so, we again see the magnetic boots in action. This is how Shepard keeps his/her footing while walking through the first Normandy's CIC when the gravity has failed, during the intro sequence of ME2. (You can tell there is no gravity - mass effect field-produced or otherwise - from all the floating chairs.)

2) Even if they did, artificial gravity is too diffuse an effect to be targeted by a shield generator's VI - just like shields don't stop you from being touched, or eating food.

crimzontearz wrote.........so...once again....armored or shielded soldiers on said ships should be immune to their artificial Gravity (and the magnetic boots excuse is bull and you know it). Even if that was not so the whole "defense stops biotics" is just as much of a retcon as Heatsinks since I could very well use  lift successfully in ME1 on a fully shileded colossus

Didymos' extracted codex entries mention how shielding has advanced in the 2 years between ME1 and ME - including innovations like "self sustaining barrier amps, hardened shield generators, and mass-field integrated armor." (Note that these three descriptions correspond to the three defenses in ME2 - barriers, shields and armor respectively.) So, pick whichever one helps you explain the change best, and that's why you can no longer use pull on charging geth without taking down their defenses first.

crimzontearz wrote...

Dense Materials, as in TONS of it over your head, might impede communications but we are talkign about BODY armor, which by your logic should also prevent armored/shielded soldiers to radio each other and prevent any kind of data sharing on the field.

Which is why not all body armor in the game is thick enough to count as "armor." Unless you think every merc/mech becomes naked once he is unprotected IG. Notice that they are still wearing suits even though they are now susceptible to cc - once you destroy the ablative outer layer, what's left isn't strong enough to stop powers from working.

crimzontearz wrote...

sorry your "rationalization" fails

I already said I didn't expect to convince you; you've made up your mind to stop enjoying the game based on your pre-existiing prejudices. By all means, sell it and stop posting, but don't be surprised if there is no exodus to follow you in your "enlightenment."

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 26 août 2010 - 02:30 .

[crimzontearz]

ok......let's start from the top:



1: Shepard is seen walking FINE through the normany in armor before and after the the Suicide mission, he even gives his speech in full armor. Grunt also always wear armor all the time on the ship......so does Garrus. Can you really imagine all the security/armored personnel on a large ship having to deal as if being on 0G environment all the time because their shields stop artificial gravity?



2: Now you are splitting hairs, seriously, a Biotic pull is not much stronger than gravity since it only makes people simply "float" weightlessly in some cases....by your logic it should still work



The codex entries still do not explain HOW a piece of hardened armor for instance stops a mass effect field



lastly, you are still agreeing with me that "defenses" should then stop all data sharing/communications of their user since they can stop hacking attempts......so you are telling me that ALL the liutenents/generals on the field with Armors/Shield/Barriers are cut off from data sharing/comms with their underlings? Are you telling me that once the Kinetic barriers of the normandy/any other ship are active then that ship cannot communicate with other ships because of its own defenses?



come on.



You say I am the one who is blinded by preconcepts but YOU want to justify the retcons and changes at all costs suspending your dibelief at every corner. No thank you I'll keep holding Bioware to a higher standard than that so they can keep making GOOD games with the story and coherence we have come to expect from their work and not this kind of BS aimed to reel in a wider crowd.