1507 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

tpryan01 wrote...

But there is nothing outside of biowarer games that are anything like bioware games when it comes to appeal for women. WoW is really the closest thing you have. Even Fallout 3 has a completely different gameplay.

My 68 year old aunt plays Bejewelled, I wouldn't call her a gamer though because anything else would confuse her.

Well my 62 year old mother, who does not play combat rpgs, heard me talk about DAO and decided she wanted to play. After a 2 minute explanation on the concept of tanking strategy she shooed me away. She defeated the archdemon and went on to play Awakenings and almost all of the addons. She's now reading game informer and is excited about mage finnishing moves.
I got a few complaint calls about how dare Sten stand up to her like that, but it was fascinating at how easy it was for her to lose herself in this game. The game is very good for any woman of any age.

If someone wants to play a game they will learn it nomatter what their age.

I know these are both anecdotes, but it seems such a waste to not market a game that provides such a great experience for a female player to female players. 

You missed the point. Simply the act of playing an interactive medium does not make you a gamer. I also think you have to be interested in more than one game. It should be about "games" to you, not a specific game.

The problem with all the statistics you keep handing us is that they're not specific enough about what does and does not count as a gamer. The Sims is definitely a game, but not one that classifies players as "gamers", at least to my eyes. Most surveys wouldn't make the distinction.

Yes, it is cool if they market to females. But the thing is, we don't occupy such a large niche that their idea should be "market to females". Market one of the aspects of their game, sure, but not market directly to us for the sake of marketing to our demographic. Is making a Lady Hawke trailer going to entice a lot of girls? Sure. But it shouldn't be made with the sole purpose of getting more girls to play the game--it should be made to make more people play the game.

[Kail Ashton]

The first Alistair esc charecter will immedietly bring in the fan girls, Bioware'll just need to put up a "slipway when wet" sign when he's introduced ^__~

[tpryan01]

So you are saying only a hardcore gamer would play DA2? I would say that is not true. How can you grow the market if you keep cannibalizing it?

What statistics would be acceptable and I will look at those. Current DAO stats are skewed because they do not market to females and I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women. FPS are also in a different category. So basically the only game like DA is DA and maybe ME, but since both of those games are hiding their female appeal they will be skewed. That said I would love to hear player statistics.

I would agree with you that trailer should appeal to the whole demographic. But right now in ME for example they are developing a product for a target audience and then almost aggressively leaving them out of their marketing.

Even several of my male gamer friends had no clue you could play as a female in ME.

I don't care about a female blur trailer, but how about just letting people know you can play as a female. There is still no way someone who wasn't actively researching ME or DA would know the option exists currently.


and again the Old Republic trailer does a great job of letting female fans know they can play. 

Modifié par tpryan01, 23 août 2010 - 06:17 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Anarya wrote...

You know, the gender breakdown at gaming/pop culture cons is usually around 60/40 men to women. So yes, there are plenty of women into super nerdy crap and not just Solitaire or Bejewelled. 

... so many ****ty costumes at con this year....

tpryan01 wrote...

But there is nothing outside of biowarer games that are anything like bioware games when it comes to appeal for women.

That's a huge blanket statement right there. What are "bioware games"? Do you mean RPGs? 

[AlanC9]

tpryan01 wrote...
....and I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women.

Designed to exclude women?

[tpryan01]

ME, ME2, DA:O, KOTOR, JADE EMPIRE



I would say boware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation.

[tpryan01]

AlanC9 wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...
....and I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women.

Designed to exclude women?

to be specific they do not offer women the option to play as women and are therefore not encouraging female play

[iTomes]

tpryan01 wrote...

So you are saying only a hardcore gamer would play DA2? I would say that is not true. How can you grow the market if you keep cannibalizing it?

What statistics would be acceptable and I will look at those. Current DAO stats are skewed because they do not market to females and I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women. FPS are also in a different category. So basically the only game like DA is DA and maybe ME, but since both of those games are hiding their female appeal they will be skewed. That said I would love to hear player statistics.

I would agree with you that trailer should appeal to the whole demographic. But right now in ME for example they are developing a product for a target audience and then almost aggressively leaving them out of their marketing.

Even several of my male gamer friends had no clue you could play as a female in ME.

I don't care about a female blur trailer, but how about just letting people know you can play as a female. There is still no way someone who wasn't actively researching ME or DA would know the option exists currently.


and again the Old Republic trailer does a great job of letting female fans know they can play. 

im aware of the hostility that will come for me now... but: RPGs are designed to exclude women?? lolwut?? were do you got that one from?? i mean, i always considered rpgs female friendly....

[iTomes]

tpryan01 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...
....and I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women.

Designed to exclude women?

to be specific they do not offer women the option to play as women and are therefore not encouraging female play

lolwut again???? what are you referring to??

[Saibh]

tpryan01 wrote...

So you are saying only a hardcore gamer would play DA2? I would say that is not true. How can you grow the market if you keep cannibalizing it?

Not at all. I'm simply making the definition, which you implied wasn't accurate. And you don't need to be a "hardcore" gamer to be a gamer. Again, it makes it hard to tell what statistics are looking at when they define "gamer". Potentially every human being with access to a gaming system could become a gamer. You need to be specific.

What statistics would be acceptable and I will look at those. Current DAO stats are skewed because they do not market to females and I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women. FPS are also in a different category. So basically the only game like DA is DA and maybe ME, but since both of those games are hiding their female appeal they will be skewed. That said I would love to hear player statistics.

That's awfully abstract. They're not "skewed"--those are the statistics. I would say your statistics are even more skewed because it doesn't specify the likelihood of the "gamers" it defines as actually picking up a game like DAO, instead of staying with The Sims or FarmVille. Like I said, just because someone can play the game doesn't mean they are, or they will. More women are playing games every year, but you can't base your facts around what might happen in the future, and neither can BioWare.

I would agree with you that trailer should appeal to the whole demographic. But right now in ME for example they are developing a product for a target audience and then almost aggressively leaving them out of their marketing.

The ability to play as a female in ME isn't a direct reflection of trying to appeal to women. It is a happy effect of it, but it's more of having another option for those who wish to roleplay, male or female. I don't like how much FemShep is left out of the loop either, but they're choosing to market one face--Sheploo--to the crowds so people who see him will know "Mass Effect".

I don't care about a female blur trailer, but how about just letting people know you can play as a female. There is still no way someone who wasn't actively researching ME or DA would know the option exists currently.

I would argue that, in DAO, concept art of the Origins and trailers for the Origins showcased a female Warden, as did Zevran's character trailer. I have to say, video game commercials are a rarity, and don't give you an excellent idea on what you can or cannot do. You must do your own research, be that asking around, looking up reviews, previews, or trailers, that's how you will find out. I'd argue most game commericials aren't meant to be shown on TV unless they're spots. You're supposed to do research to find out about a game.

That's simply conjecture I'm making, however, based on the lack of game commercials I see. Generally they're under-a-minute clips of abstract things that have little to do with the aspects of the game.

[Haexpane]

tpryan01 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...
....and I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women.

Designed to exclude women?

to be specific they do not offer women the option to play as women and are therefore not encouraging female play

ME1, ME2 (not an RPG), KotOR I, KotOR II, BG2, Champions of Norrath, Morrowind, Champions Return to Arms, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Sacred 2, BGDA, BGDA2, Demon's Souls

Are all games I have played where I used a Female Protagonist so IDK exactly wut u sai.

[Saibh]

tpryan01 wrote...

ME, ME2, DA:O, KOTOR, JADE EMPIRE

I would say boware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation.

Woah, woah, woah.

Woah.

They're RPGs. They are really RPGs.

Also, not being able to play as a girl is not the same as "excluding" girls.

[Bryy_Miller]

iTomes wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...
....and I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women.

Designed to exclude women?

to be specific they do not offer women the option to play as women and are therefore not encouraging female play

lolwut again???? what are you referring to??

She's referring to the RPGs in her Perceived Reality of Female Oppression.

[iTomes]

Saibh wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

ME, ME2, DA:O, KOTOR, JADE EMPIRE

I would say boware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation.

Woah, woah, woah.

Woah.

They're RPGs. They are really RPGs.

Also, not being able to play as a girl is not the same as "excluding" girls.

a little list of rpgs (more or less) where you are allowed to play girls (faaaaarrrr away from being complete, im just to lazy to write them all down...):
bioware rpgs
almost all action rpgs
almost all (or all excluding those nobody really knows) online rpgs.
and many many more.
i wouldn't call that "excluding women". and why are they no rpgs???

[Anarya]

Saibh wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

ME, ME2, DA:O, KOTOR, JADE EMPIRE

I would say boware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation.

Woah, woah, woah.

Woah.

They're RPGs. They are really RPGs.

Also, not being able to play as a girl is not the same as "excluding" girls.

Yeah. I don't think the Metroid games exclude male players. Much as I'd like more consideration of women in gaming I would never want to limit the storytelling by demanding a female protagonist option in every game.

I mean I don't feel excluded when I read books or watch movies with male protagonists. I feel the same way about games.

[tpryan01]

I have posted several surveys inside each is an explanation of how they are run. Each survey is from a well respected institution and defines gamer differently. But all agree ignoring the market is a huge waste of potential income.



I have seen no attempt by others in this forum to provide hard statistical data saying that when females are told they can play as a women they are not more likely to purchase the game.



I think that the fact women players outnumber men in WoW in the US is a testament to the fact that knowledge of a female model will help grow a fanbase.

[marquiseondore]

Saibh wrote...

You missed the point. Simply the act of playing an interactive medium does not make you a gamer. I also think you have to be interested in more than one game. It should be about "games" to you, not a specific game.

The problem with all the statistics you keep handing us is that they're not specific enough about what does and does not count as a gamer. The Sims is definitely a game, but not one that classifies players as "gamers", at least to my eyes. Most surveys wouldn't make the distinction.

Yes, it is cool if they market to females. But the thing is, we don't occupy such a large niche that their idea should be "market to females". Market one of the aspects of their game, sure, but not market directly to us for the sake of marketing to our demographic. Is making a Lady Hawke trailer going to entice a lot of girls? Sure. But it shouldn't be made with the sole purpose of getting more girls to play the game--it should be made to make more people play the game.

Games are interactive. Sims players are still gamers. 

[addiction21]

tpryan01 wrote...


I don't care about a female blur trailer, but how about just letting people know you can play as a female. There is still no way someone who wasn't actively researching ME or DA would know the option exists currently.


and again the Old Republic trailer does a great job of letting female fans know they can play. 

No it does not. It shows no aspects of the game and is just a trailer with a female in it. That is no confirmation as to what is actually in the game or what you can or can not do in the game. You cannot know for certain that that option is present unless you actively look into it. You can only assume.
The sacred ashes trailer shows Sten with a goatee, Leli jumping incredible heights, Morrigans shapeshifting to be usefull, and the warden with glowing eyes.
CGI trailers rarley if ever are actually indicative as to what a game is like or what features there are.

[iTomes]

tpryan01 wrote...

I have posted several surveys inside each is an explanation of how they are run. Each survey is from a well respected institution and defines gamer differently. But all agree ignoring the market is a huge waste of potential income.

I have seen no attempt by others in this forum to provide hard statistical data saying that when females are told they can play as a women they are not more likely to purchase the game.

I think that the fact women players outnumber men in WoW in the US is a testament to the fact that knowledge of a female model will help grow a fanbase.

1. that doesn't explain how rpgs are contra-female or whatever.
2. women players outnomber men in wow? is that: a)actual women, female characters or c) guys who pretend to be female to get gold? however, i dont see how this is supposed to help your point considering that were in the DA forum, a game that doesn't really have anything to do with wow.

Modifié par iTomes, 23 août 2010 - 06:58 .

[Bryy_Miller]

tpryan01 wrote...

I have posted several surveys inside each is an explanation of how they are run. Each survey is from a well respected institution and defines gamer differently. But all agree ignoring the market is a huge waste of potential income.

I have seen no attempt by others in this forum to provide hard statistical data saying that when females are told they can play as a women they are not more likely to purchase the game.

I think that the fact women players outnumber men in WoW in the US is a testament to the fact that knowledge of a female model will help grow a fanbase.

Thanks for not addressing any of our replies about the nature of RPGs.

[Saibh]

marquiseondore wrote...

Games are interactive. Sims players are still gamers. 

I disagree respectfully. I think you need to have a love of video games, plural, as a medium. You might have a preference to a genre or console, but video games as a medium take up much of your leisure time. I can make vague assumptions of any group if I defined the term so broadly. Are you an artist because you doodle?--I don't think so, but you don't have to be a good artist to still be an artist. Are you goth because you were black and dark mark-up? A vegetarian because you don't like meat?

I would at least say that it's valid to call those people "casual gamers".

Modifié par Saibh, 23 août 2010 - 06:58 .

[iTomes]

addiction21 wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...


I don't care about a female blur trailer, but how about just letting people know you can play as a female. There is still no way someone who wasn't actively researching ME or DA would know the option exists currently.


and again the Old Republic trailer does a great job of letting female fans know they can play. 

No it does not. It shows no aspects of the game and is just a trailer with a female in it. That is no confirmation as to what is actually in the game or what you can or can not do in the game. You cannot know for certain that that option is present unless you actively look into it. You can only assume.
The sacred ashes trailer shows Sten with a goatee, Leli jumping incredible heights, Morrigans shapeshifting to be usefull, and the warden with glowing eyes.
CGI trailers rarley if ever are actually indicative as to what a game is like or what features there are.

*whispers* i think shes referring to the multiplayer trailer *stops whispering*

[Dave of Canada]

marquiseondore wrote...

Games are interactive. Sims players are still gamers. 

Would you consider people who only play Farmville to be "gamers"?

[tpryan01]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

Games are interactive. Sims players are still gamers. 

Would you consider people who only play Farmville to be "gamers"?

It is ok Dave even though you play farmville I still consider you a gamer ;-)


http://kotaku.com/56...u/full (Kotaku)

Modifié par tpryan01, 23 août 2010 - 07:06 .

[iTomes]

tpryan01 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

Games are interactive. Sims players are still gamers. 

Would you consider people who only play Farmville to be "gamers"?

It is ok Dave even though you play farmville I still consider you a gamer ;-)

why is it that the most posts you make simply ignore all arguments made before?