1507 réponses à ce sujet

[tpryan01]

iTomes wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

but I should retype the same thing on every new page.

Ask me a specific question that has to do with whether bioware's current marketing campaign appeals to a female audience.

considering that you actually made more effort telling us reasons "why you cant show us arguments and that we should read everything ourselves blabla", effort in which you simply could've quoted yourself i suspect you dont have any arguments and simply thought producing some bullcr@p about how evil video games are towards woman would help your point.

What ? 

That is all you buddy.

here is my original post, no accusations no evil only love

 
One problem I had with the marketing of DAO and ME and ME2 was that until I was told by a male (months after the game came out) that I could play as a female I had no idea that it was possible.

I understand that it is mentioned in articles about the game, but in all marketing materials the featured character is male as it has been in ME, ME2, DA:O and DA:O-A.

To be clear I really don't care what the specifics of what the female hawke will look like.

I am only concerned in how more NEW female gamers can be brought into the game.

This is a thread about marketing, not accusations of offense.

Have you tried showing any of the DA2 marketing materials to female gamers not familiar with DA:O?

What was their response?

Now what was it I am avoiding? 

Modifié par tpryan01, 23 août 2010 - 07:30 .

[Sternchen]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm an artist?

Of course, shure Yess...work of art ...

[marquiseondore]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...


Art and creativity go hand in hand. As you pointed out; you need not be a good artist to be an artist.  A doodler can make little MAD magazine comic in the corner of their homework.  If they are just making tally's, well that's not creative or artistic is it.

I'm an artist?

*Dave's masterpiece*

Of course,

[Saibh]

tpryan01 wrote...

but I should retype the same thing on every new page.

Ask me a specific question that has to do with whether bioware's current marketing campaign appeals to a female audience.

Again. You are completely ignoring the argument I made. We are not here to ask you questions and listen to your sage answers. You have not presented your argument well enough if you just have to keep going back to the base arguments being made--that just means that someone is failing to understand the point the other is making. In either case, a change in tactics is needed--either to clarify, or to prove your point, or to present counterpoints.

In layman's terms:

You make an argument.
Someone counters.
You counter.
They counter.
You go back to point a)
They go to point

This is the point where you need to present something new to validate your answer, or someone else needs to jump in and provide another opinion. If you are stuck in a proverbial revolving debate door, you should have the conclusive evidence you need to successfully counter their argument. I have yet to see you do it. I see holes, and I see others pointing them out, but you just go back to point a).

Not all arguments are meant to be 'won', but I see you as someone who believes they are right.

[iTomes]

@tpryan01:
"I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women"
please explain.

"I would say boware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation. "
please explain.

[Dave of Canada]

marquiseondore wrote...

It doesn't make them a connoisseur, that's for certain.  But games like Farmville, Mafia Wars, Cafe World are a genre enjoyed by new gamers.  Think of them as training wheels.

But like a child on training wheels, we aren't going to go call them a cyclist. We call them a cyclist when they get off the training wheels.

[tpryan01]

"I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women"

RPGs that do not offer a female mode are more difficult for a female to relate to than one with a female model.



"I would say bioware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation. "

A pure fight based RPG with little story is not as appealing to the female demographic. An RPG where you cannot play as a woman is also less attractive to a female audience. There have been may annecdotes by female players earlier in this thread.

[Jean]

tpryan01 wrote...

If you think that you haven't been reading my posts. Enough about the studies. I've done my best.

Let's go back to the core question.

Ladies how did you find out you could play as a female?

I turned the game on and it was there. Still rolled through my first playthrough as a male in Mass Effect just because. Played as a female first on Dragon Age then a male. I'm probably going to play as default male Hawke in DA2 first just because he is that awesome. Nobody knows much anything about him but he seems to be doing something right in the trailers and generally since both men and women are swooning over him and his beard. With or without Nutella.

[tpryan01]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

It doesn't make them a connoisseur, that's for certain.  But games like Farmville, Mafia Wars, Cafe World are a genre enjoyed by new gamers.  Think of them as training wheels.

But like a child on training wheels, we aren't going to go call them a cyclist. We call them a cyclist when they get off the training wheels.

but don't you want to encourage them to take those training wheels off and become full blown gamers?

don't you want gaming to become more mainstream? 

Modifié par tpryan01, 23 août 2010 - 07:39 .

[tpryan01]

tpryan01 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

It doesn't make them a connoisseur, that's for certain.  But games like Farmville, Mafia Wars, Cafe World are a genre enjoyed by new gamers.  Think of them as training wheels.

But like a child on training wheels, we aren't going to go call them a cyclist. We call them a cyclist when they get off the training wheels.

but don't you want to encourage them to take those training wheels off and become full blown gamers?

don't you want gaming to become more mainstream? 

[marquiseondore]

Dave of Canada wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

It doesn't make them a connoisseur, that's for certain.  But games like Farmville, Mafia Wars, Cafe World are a genre enjoyed by new gamers.  Think of them as training wheels.

But like a child on training wheels, we aren't going to go call them a cyclist. We call them a cyclist when they get off the training wheels.

No, that would make them bicyclists.  But we are not speaking in terms of professionalism.

[iTomes]

tpryan01 wrote...

"I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women"
RPGs that do not offer a female mode are more difficult for a female to relate to than one with a female model.

"I would say bioware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation. "
A pure fight based RPG with little story is not as appealing to the female demographic. An RPG where you cannot play as a woman is also less attractive to a female audience. There have been may annecdotes by female players earlier in this thread.

1. yes, but does that mean that rpgs in GENERAL exclude women?? in the most you can play females you know.
2. yes and because you consider it as "female unfriendly" its not an rpg even if you said seconds before that RPGs exclude women.. thats just suffering of a big leak of logic...

Modifié par iTomes, 23 août 2010 - 07:41 .

[Saibh]

tpryan01 wrote...

"I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women"
RPGs that do not offer a female mode are more difficult for a female to relate to than one with a female model.

That is purely your opinion. Plenty of gamer girls are happy to play games that don't feature a female model, so long as it's good. Do I want to play a game more when a girl is optional? Of course I do. But I also expect the character's gender to not get in the way of the story. If it is important that he is male, then he is male, and I accept that. I do not feel like I am being slighted.

Also, RPGs are one of the few genres designed to include women by your logic. Most games do not offer the choice. Very few games feature a female protagonist that is appealing to both sexes on basis of their sex.

"I would say bioware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation. "
A pure fight based RPG with little story is not as appealing to the female demographic. An RPG where you cannot play as a woman is also less attractive to a female audience. There have been may annecdotes by female players earlier in this thread.

Again. This is your opinion, and I kindly ask you to not make such generalizations about my gender. For someone who doesn't want to be stereotyped, you sure are working hard to stereotype us. If a guy had said that, I would have been all over him like a piranha on sirloin.

I don't consider a game that doesn't have a female option to be "less attractive" to me. I'd say the reverse is true, though: a game with a female option is "more attractive". BioWare has always had the female option, so I expect it from them. Other studios I don't hold the same expectations, and of course you're setting yourself up to be offended if you think that way.

Also.

I cannot believe that you would call a BioWare game lacking in story. They are the reigning king of video game story.

[tpryan01]

iTomes wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

"I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women"
RPGs that do not offer a female mode are more difficult for a female to relate to than one with a female model.

"I would say bioware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation. "
A pure fight based RPG with little story is not as appealing to the female demographic. An RPG where you cannot play as a woman is also less attractive to a female audience. There have been may annecdotes by female players earlier in this thread.

1. yes, but does that mean that rpgs in GENERAL exclude women?? in the most you can play females you know.
2. yes and because you consider it as "female unfriendly" its not an rpg even if you said seconds before that RPGs exclude women.. thats just suffering of a big leak of logic...

Sorry I think you misunderstood 

I love Bioware and their games obviously and obviously they appeal to females when somemone explains them

but to look at the current breakdown by sex for games like red dead redemption would obviously not show a large female audience as there are no female protagonists. 

[iampool]

ErichHartmann wrote...

"Another example of a female protagonist would be Faith from Mirror's Edge (again didn't do too well commercially I gather), it's a promising sign."

The new Metroid game is heavily marketing Samus outside of her suit in movie clips. I have no doubt it will be a big hit.

Beyond Good & Evil, awesome game, female protagonist, ****ty sales.

[Maverick827]

I think there is a chasm of difference between two distinct types of RPG players: those who can create characters separate from themselves and allow them to grow in a fictional world, and those who cannot and must insert themselves into every character they make. The former is able to easily play characters of the opposite gender, while the latter finds it very difficult.

I actually make sure to play female characters frequently; otherwise I begin to notice that the cast of all of my stories is a huge sausage fest.

[Bryy_Miller]

tpryan01 wrote...
A pure fight based RPG with little story is not as appealing to the female demographic. An RPG where you cannot play as a woman is also less attractive to a female audience. There have been may annecdotes by female players earlier in this thread.

I love how you are using the DA2 demo as an example of how DA2 is going to be obtrusive to women. That's incredibly empowering of you.

[Bryy_Miller]

tpryan01 wrote...

I love Bioware and their games obviously and obviously they appeal to females when somemone explains them

You know, this is why Radical Feminists are looked don upon by their own gender: it's because they believe that other women are stupid.

[tpryan01]

? I never said that? 
If it sounded that way sorry  again I looooove bioware. They are amazing

I simply think they could add to their profits by letting people know that they offer a female character. I am not really arguing with you on any point.

here is the original post.

One problem I had with the marketing of DAO and ME and ME2 was that until I was told by a male (months after the game came out) that I could play as a female I had no idea that it was possible.

I understand that it is mentioned in articles about the game, but in all marketing materials the featured character is male as it has been in ME, ME2, DA:O and DA:O-A.

To be clear I really don't care what the specifics of what the female hawke will look like.

I am only concerned in how more NEW female gamers can be brought into the game.

This is a thread about marketing, not accusations of offense.

Have you tried showing any of the DA2 marketing materials to female gamers not familiar with DA:O?

What was their response?

 

I am not slamming boware or saying that some women are ok playing men. 

[tpryan01]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

I love Bioware and their games obviously and obviously they appeal to females when somemone explains them

You know, this is why Radical Feminists are looked don upon by their own gender: it's because they believe that other women are stupid.

lol 

not how to play, but what makes the game worth playing

[iTomes]

tpryan01 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

"I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women"
RPGs that do not offer a female mode are more difficult for a female to relate to than one with a female model.

"I would say bioware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation. "
A pure fight based RPG with little story is not as appealing to the female demographic. An RPG where you cannot play as a woman is also less attractive to a female audience. There have been may annecdotes by female players earlier in this thread.

1. yes, but does that mean that rpgs in GENERAL exclude women?? in the most you can play females you know.
2. yes and because you consider it as "female unfriendly" its not an rpg even if you said seconds before that RPGs exclude women.. thats just suffering of a big leak of logic...

Sorry I think you misunderstood 

I love Bioware and their games obviously and obviously they appeal to females when somemone explains them

but to look at the current breakdown by sex for games like red dead redemption would obviously not show a large female audience as there are no female protagonists. 

its a rockstar game, i guess those dont feature a female audience. sorry for that, but its true. not that i would like it (actually i love downloading GTA mods that replace Niko or what his name was with a female xD) but thats how rockstar is. call them sexist, youre propably right . but still why do RPGs exclude females, and why are bioware games no real rpgs, especially for you could play a female in almost all relevant rpgs that were released lately (excluding alpha protocoll, the witcher (its bout the character of geralt, they dont really have a choice) and the gothic be-alikes)... and all bio rpgs so far supported female characters (i think...).

[tpryan01]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

A pure fight based RPG with little story is not as appealing to the female demographic. An RPG where you cannot play as a woman is also less attractive to a female audience. There have been may annecdotes by female players earlier in this thread.

I love how you are using the DA2 demo as an example of how DA2 is going to be obtrusive to women. That's incredibly empowering of you.

again never said that in any way

[Bryy_Miller]

tpryan01 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

I love Bioware and their games obviously and obviously they appeal to females when somemone explains them

You know, this is why Radical Feminists are looked don upon by their own gender: it's because they believe that other women are stupid.

lol 

not how to play, but what makes the game worth playing

That's what I was saying. You are assuming that other women need it explained to them. You are assuming every other woman is stupid, consciously or not.

[tpryan01]

iTomes wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

"I cannot use RPGs in general as they are designed to exclude women"
RPGs that do not offer a female mode are more difficult for a female to relate to than one with a female model.

"I would say bioware games are not truly rpgs more interactive movies and there is not really a direct correlation. "
A pure fight based RPG with little story is not as appealing to the female demographic. An RPG where you cannot play as a woman is also less attractive to a female audience. There have been may annecdotes by female players earlier in this thread.

1. yes, but does that mean that rpgs in GENERAL exclude women?? in the most you can play females you know.
2. yes and because you consider it as "female unfriendly" its not an rpg even if you said seconds before that RPGs exclude women.. thats just suffering of a big leak of logic...

Sorry I think you misunderstood 

I love Bioware and their games obviously and obviously they appeal to females when somemone explains them

but to look at the current breakdown by sex for games like red dead redemption would obviously not show a large female audience as there are no female protagonists. 

its a rockstar game, i guess those dont feature a female audience. sorry for that, but its true. not that i would like it (actually i love downloading GTA mods that replace Niko or what his name was with a female xD) but thats how rockstar is. call them sexist, youre propably right . but still why do RPGs exclude females, and why are bioware games no real rpgs, especially for you could play a female in almost all relevant rpgs that were released lately (excluding alpha protocoll, the witcher (its bout the character of geralt, they dont really have a choice) and the gothic be-alikes)... and all bio rpgs so far supported female characters (i think...).

RPGs do not 
Bioware does not I never said that.

I simply said that of course you are going to have fewer females playing games where they cannot play as a female (meaning other games not bioware games)

Modifié par tpryan01, 23 août 2010 - 07:57 .

[Bryy_Miller]

tpryan01 wrote...

I simply said that of course you are going to have fewer females playing games where they cannot play as a female (meaning other games not bioware games)

More women saw The Expendables than men.