1507 réponses à ce sujet

[nefand]

The trailers appeal to me more when they feature strong female characters, but since I'm a female gamer that's what I look for.

I can appreciate the CGI eye candy as well as the next nerd, but ultimately what's going to get me to fork over my disposable income come street date is whether or not I can play the game with a female PC that doesn't look bad or have poorly constructed animations.

That is my preference as a female gamer.  If Bioware, or any other game company, wants to part me with my money then they will have to pay attention to these details or they will fail [to part me with my money].  It's that simple.

I really don't care how good a game is otherwise; if I can't gen a female PC, then I'm not interested, period.  I'll hit the wiki for the storyline.  I've shelled out cash to build a custom system capable of playing any game out there, and we have a 20 mb pipe to support the family habit, so it's certaintly not a lack of interest in games... Just a demand from me, as a consumer, for the option of female playable characters.

So to that end, it would be all kinds of nice to see some marketing in my direction as well. 

There's really a bigger social argument here, which is the idea that women don't need to be marketed to by game companies, or that women should just settle for "researching" a game and not get so perturbed when the ad campaign doesn't attempt to catch their interests because, hey, it's a male dominated industry and that's just how it is and we chicks need to lrn2cope.

For that line of thinking to even be considered acceptable is, in and of itself, an indication that the issue being raised is not being considered thoughtfully.

Modifié par nefand, 26 août 2010 - 12:03 .

[The Edge]

marquiseondore wrote...

The Edge wrote...

I want to know why it is so difficult to research a game. It's not brainsurgery.

And if a game doesn't appeal to you from trailers and such, why not wait until the reviews or something? Then you see the review and get an idea of how the game plays and if it is worth the money, decide if that game is something you might enjoy, and THEN you can buy it.

Because you can't research a game you dont know exsists.  If you just happen upon the game in a physical store you have the game cover or a clerk who may not be knowledgeable.

I just don't understand people that spend $60 (or $50) dollars on a game that they only now of based on the cover art and description on the back. To me, that runs a greater risk of wasting money if it doesn't turn out as you expect.

This is coming from someone who browses IGN and subscribes to Gameinformer, so my opinion is a little skewed, I guess.

[Saibh]

marquiseondore wrote...

The Edge wrote...

I want to know why it is so difficult to research a game. It's not brainsurgery.

And if a game doesn't appeal to you from trailers and such, why not wait until the reviews or something? Then you see the review and get an idea of how the game plays and if it is worth the money, decide if that game is something you might enjoy, and THEN you can buy it.

Because you can't research a game you dont know exsists.  If you just happen upon the game in a physical store you have the game cover or a clerk who may not be knowledgeable.

So, your problem is marketing it in the first place, and not just marketing it to women? I say it did well enough financially, so they managed their job successfully. Again, I think that the industry appeals to people who are already gamers, and relies on word of mouth to recruit new ones. Most gamers will learn by research or their friends about new games. The problem with saying that they're not marketing successfully is that you're already here, and whenever you tell someone about a new game they didn't know about, you helped market that game, just like they want you to.

And I should probably point out that DAO's cover has Morrigan far more prominently than some random armored dude.

[The Edge]

jln.francisco wrote...

The Edge wrote...

I want to know why it is so difficult to research a game. It's not brainsurgery.

And if a game doesn't appeal to you from trailers and such, why not wait until the reviews or something? Then you see the review and get an idea of how the game plays and if it is worth the money, decide if that game is something you might enjoy, and THEN you can buy it.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you continue to follow a game/series that hasn't captured your interest?

Well, if the trailer or promotional material didn't get your attention, maybe a great review score will.

[nefand]

Well, if the trailer or promotional material didn't get your attention, maybe a great review score will.

Depends on who wrote the review.

Some guy who doesn't give a **** whether the game was marketed to the female demographic at all, because his interests were catered to and he got his free copy so, hey, why not play it and do the write up?

Sorry, but if that's the case then I don't give a **** about the review or the reviewer because he doesn't represent my interests, or care about the things I care about when shopping for a game.

[marquiseondore]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

The Edge wrote...

I want to know why it is so difficult to research a game. It's not brainsurgery.

And if a game doesn't appeal to you from trailers and such, why not wait until the reviews or something? Then you see the review and get an idea of how the game plays and if it is worth the money, decide if that game is something you might enjoy, and THEN you can buy it.

Because you can't research a game you dont know exsists.  If you just happen upon the game in a physical store you have the game cover or a clerk who may not be knowledgeable.

But that's still the same thing. Only a few people actually buy games right off the shelves without knowing anything about them. That and weary parents.

I seriously doubt that it's only a few people, especially when the game is discounted by $20.  Bioware fans or those who have read their game magazine of choice will be the ones who put a deposit for the presale. Bioware is looking for new blood.  How effective is a marketing campaign where the print/online media is passing conflicting or inaccurate information.

Modifié par marquiseondore, 26 août 2010 - 12:13 .

[AntiChri5]

The "marketing campaign" (one trailer so far) is not even aimed at rpg gamers, why would they market it specifically to female rpg gamers when rpg gamers of both genders combined arent enough people to bother marketing towards?

[Saibh]

AntiChri5 wrote...

The "marketing campaign" (one trailer so far) is not even aimed at rpg gamers, why would they market it specifically to female rpg gamers when rpg gamers of both genders combined arent enough people to bother marketing towards?

To be contrary, of course.

[marquiseondore]

Saibh wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

The Edge wrote...

I want to know why it is so difficult to research a game. It's not brainsurgery.

And if a game doesn't appeal to you from trailers and such, why not wait until the reviews or something? Then you see the review and get an idea of how the game plays and if it is worth the money, decide if that game is something you might enjoy, and THEN you can buy it.

Because you can't research a game you dont know exsists.  If you just happen upon the game in a physical store you have the game cover or a clerk who may not be knowledgeable.

So, your problem is marketing it in the first place, and not just marketing it to women? I say it did well enough financially, so they managed their job successfully. Again, I think that the industry appeals to people who are already gamers, and relies on word of mouth to recruit new ones. Most gamers will learn by research or their friends about new games. The problem with saying that they're not marketing successfully is that you're already here, and whenever you tell someone about a new game they didn't know about, you helped market that game, just like they want you to.

And I should probably point out that DAO's cover has Morrigan far more prominently than some random armored dude.

As I said before, I never heard of Bioware before picking up the game being a JRPG gamer.  The game won me completely over.  As I've also mentioned before, I believe Bioware did itself a great disservice by not mentioning the CC, six different orgins, and the ability to play as a woman thereby having a different gaming experience as if I played a male on the back of the game cover. The later point clearly would appeal to a female gamer.

Modifié par marquiseondore, 26 août 2010 - 12:28 .

[marquiseondore]

AntiChri5 wrote...

The "marketing campaign" (one trailer so far) is not even aimed at rpg gamers, why would they market it specifically to female rpg gamers when rpg gamers of both genders combined arent enough people to bother marketing towards?

And my point isn't that they should specifically market to female RPG gamers, but to include them.

[Saibh]

marquiseondore wrote...

As I said before, I never heard of Bioware before picking up the game being a JRPG gamer.  The game won me completely over.  As I've also mentioned before, I believe Bioware did itself a great disservice by not mentioning the CC, six different orgins, and the ability to play as a woman thereby having a different gaming experience as if I played a male. The later point clearly would appeal to a female gamer.

I don't know how often you see trailers for games on TV, but they tend to be short. This was one of them. They must immediately catch someone's eye. They can't be complicated and must instantly pique your interest.

Like I said, the industry markets to gamers who have video games as their hobby--they are likely to look up information or hear about things from their friends. Just watching the TV Spots will not give you a good idea what the game is like--you must do research. And if you do, you are bound to find out that you can be male or female.

Either they have heard next to nothing, and therefore need to be enlightened, or they have heard something and don't care. If it's the former, then they will hear through word of mouth--say, you telling one of your female friends. Word of mouth is a very successful tool companies rely on to sell their games. If it is the latter, then they aren't going to be a consumer anyway.

[marquiseondore]

Saibh wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

As I said before, I never heard of Bioware before picking up the game being a JRPG gamer.  The game won me completely over.  As I've also mentioned before, I believe Bioware did itself a great disservice by not mentioning the CC, six different orgins, and the ability to play as a woman thereby having a different gaming experience as if I played a male. The later point clearly would appeal to a female gamer.

I don't know how often you see trailers for games on TV, but they tend to be short. This was one of them. They must immediately catch someone's eye. They can't be complicated and must instantly pique your interest.

Like I said, the industry markets to gamers who have video games as their hobby--they are likely to look up information or hear about things from their friends. Just watching the TV Spots will not give you a good idea what the game is like--you must do research. And if you do, you are bound to find out that you can be male or female.

Either they have heard next to nothing, and therefore need to be enlightened, or they have heard something and don't care. If it's the former, then they will hear through word of mouth--say, you telling one of your female friends. Word of mouth is a very successful tool companies rely on to sell their games. If it is the latter, then they aren't going to be a consumer anyway.

I had to edit the post you quoted as I forgot to add where I felt Bioware went wrong.  The lack of information on the back of the cover.

[addiction21]

jln.francisco wrote...

a mess of qoutes Im not going to fix

You can talk about the responsibilities of marketing all you want but reality begs to differ. Go ahead and ignore me seems like thats what you do when you cannot refute someones point.

Oh so know people that know about a good game or do a tiny bit of looking around for what they like is a geek? Geek nerd whatever it is a badge I have always worn with pride.
Word of mouth is marketing. For example someone writes a tweet or blog about this great game they have. Someone reads it and then goes out and buys it. Word of mouth in action.

So know we are just splitting hairs. A hobby is an activity that one takes part in for entertainment or leisure. IE a fun past time.
No you do not need to go look up every little bit of info about every game past, present or future.  To bed there is not some place you could go to easily look around the geners and some search tool think to help you...
In fact looking around a little would proberly bring you more fun since you will be able to find those gems you missed for whatever the reason.

marquiseondore wrote...


Because you can't research a game you dont know exsists.  If you just happen upon the game in a physical store you have the game cover or a clerk who may not be knowledgeable.

Your right you cant research something you do not know exsists. You could now buy it knowing nothing about it or go find out about it in some manner. Internet is a good place. And I think I have a question to ask that will better frame my thoughts on this.
How many boxes, posters, advertisments have you (or anyone else) that had a comprehensive list of all the features that game has available?

nefand wrote...


There's really a bigger social argument here, which is the idea that women don't need to be marketed to by game companies, or that women should just settle for "researching" a game and not get so perturbed when the ad campaign doesn't attempt to catch their interests because, hey, it's a male dominated industry and that's just how it is and we chicks need to lrn2cope.

For that line of thinking to even be considered acceptable is, in and of itself, an indication that the issue being raised is not being considered thoughtfully.

If I have implied that then  I apologize and that was never my goal. It is not a guy vs girl thing. It is more of a "people that know what they like and put that little effort into finding those things" and "people that expect these things to be delivered to them on a silver platter by know cheats and liars (marketers)"

I still am stumbling upon games years old I never heard of or had interest in at the time (I guess that would be the marketers fault right?) As a example Beyond Good and Evil. Flew under my radar and it took a few years after its release for me to get it. I dont take it as a personal insult that they did not get the right set of images in front of me at the right time.

[AntiChri5]

The OP has argued that, in order to increase sales, they should place greater emphasis on the ability to create a female character which is not absurdly oversexualised, which is something very few games offer. This will get them more interested in the game, boosting sales.



Alright. A good point.



Why are things advertised? It is not to inform people of the product. It is to sell the product.



They are only allocated a certain amount of resources for marketing which, while big enough to make me weep in envy, is limited.



So they must make sure to market to the biggest group possible, while making sure not to waste resources by not advertising to people who will most likely buy the game anyway.



So we have to look at how many people are in the group the OP wants represented in marketing, that is: Female gamers who are interested in a somewhat complex wrpg, yet are completely unfamiliar with wrpg's and their tendency to include a female option while creating a character (there are exceptions, like the Witcher (anyone trying to sell that game to a female audience has their work cut out for them) but the majority of wrpgs do offer this option) who is also completely unaware of BioWares history (there is only one Bioware game, a crappy Sonic game on the DS, that has not offered a gender option for what, twenty years?).



This is a pretty small pool to advertise toward, especially when you consider that they have so few games which offer a decent female character to choose from. So there is a goid chance they will land on BioWare anyway.



Then you compare it to the amount of people who, probably have never played an RPG, and are likely looking for something more along the lines of God of War (a single glance at Modern Warfare 2's sales shows how many of them there are) and that number is dwarfed.



You do not advertise towards a small group who are already interested in your product, or even a large group that is.



You advertise towards a massive group who probably isnt going to buy your product, just a fraction of them is enough to blow the group the op is advocating for out of the water, they had no prior interest or (unkown) incestment in the product. They had no reason to buy it. A shiny trailer with cool graphics and explosions changes that.



And when you factor in the fact that so far there has been one trailer with a promise of FemHawke later on, this thread starts to feel quite rediculous.

[Lord Gremlin]

AntiChri5, good point. Advertising is done for people who don't know about Dragon Age and don't care. Fans of Dragon Age are already in the club and will buy the sequel.



However, I think they should show female Hawke, it will attract more people.

[AntiChri5]

*investment, not incestment.

[ErichHartmann]

AntiChri5 wrote...

*investment, not incestment.

Freudian slip

[addiction21]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

AntiChri5, good point. Advertising is done for people who don't know about Dragon Age and don't care. Fans of Dragon Age are already in the club and will buy the sequel.

However, I think they should show female Hawke, it will attract more people.

Maybe but showing a waffleHawke... well lets say that would take care of the money problem EA has been having lately.

[marquiseondore]

addiction21 wrote ...

Your right you cant research something you do not know exsists. You
could now buy it knowing nothing about it or go find out about it in
some manner. Internet is a good place. And I think I have a question to
ask that will better frame my thoughts on this.
How many boxes,
posters, advertisments have you (or anyone else) that had a
comprehensive list of all the features that game has available?

Dragon Quest IX, White Knight Chronicles, Disgaea and Fallout 3 are just a few....do you want more examples?

[Vandrayke]

This is an interesting discussion in general. Just yesterday I stumbled across something that said Activision had only published two games in like the last 5 years with female protagonists: Barbie and some other kids game. They forced the development team of the new True Crime game to change the lead from a female to male protagonist because their research shows that female leads don't sell.

Similarly, Hollywood studios aren't even bothering with movies featuring strong female leads any more. And female movie viewers, oddly enough, like strong female leads in movies even less than male movie viewers, at least based on their spending habits.

The common idea being that although many people with a lot of money and creative input WANT to make more products with strong female leads, they generally are not, especially given the current economy; with a few exceptions, people are sticking with what has sold. So expect to see a nonstop stream of male action heroes and all that for the foreseeable future.

Modifié par Vandrayke, 26 août 2010 - 01:12 .