1507 réponses à ce sujet

[marquiseondore]

AntiChri5 wrote...

The OP has argued that, in order to increase sales, they should place greater emphasis on the ability to create a female character which is not absurdly oversexualised, which is something very few games offer. This will get them more interested in the game, boosting sales.

Alright. A good point.

Why are things advertised? It is not to inform people of the product. It is to sell the product.

They are only allocated a certain amount of resources for marketing which, while big enough to make me weep in envy, is limited.

So they must make sure to market to the biggest group possible, while making sure not to waste resources by not advertising to people who will most likely buy the game anyway.

So we have to look at how many people are in the group the OP wants represented in marketing, that is: Female gamers who are interested in a somewhat complex wrpg, yet are completely unfamiliar with wrpg's and their tendency to include a female option while creating a character (there are exceptions, like the Witcher (anyone trying to sell that game to a female audience has their work cut out for them) but the majority of wrpgs do offer this option) who is also completely unaware of BioWares history (there is only one Bioware game, a crappy Sonic game on the DS, that has not offered a gender option for what, twenty years?).

This is a pretty small pool to advertise toward, especially when you consider that they have so few games which offer a decent female character to choose from. So there is a goid chance they will land on BioWare anyway.

Then you compare it to the amount of people who, probably have never played an RPG, and are likely looking for something more along the lines of God of War (a single glance at Modern Warfare 2's sales shows how many of them there are) and that number is dwarfed.

You do not advertise towards a small group who are already interested in your product, or even a large group that is.

You advertise towards a massive group who probably isnt going to buy your product, just a fraction of them is enough to blow the group the op is advocating for out of the water, they had no prior interest or (unkown) incestment in the product. They had no reason to buy it. A shiny trailer with cool graphics and explosions changes that.

And when you factor in the fact that so far there has been one trailer with a promise of FemHawke later on, this thread starts to feel quite rediculous.

And thus any omission of pertinent game information from the back of the box is an opportunity missed to provide selling points to any potential buyer (which includes women). 

[Vandrayke]

marquiseondore wrote...

And thus any omission of pertinent game information from the back of the box is an opportunity missed to provide selling points to any potential buyer (which includes women). 

They undoubtedly created a statistical model to simulate much of what you're all discussing, and while models obviously do not replace intuition, there is more of a science to them than most people believe.  In short: they want to sell more games, they are trying their hardest to do so, and all the research they have conducted tells them that their money is better spent elsewhere

Modifié par Vandrayke, 26 août 2010 - 01:18 .

[marquiseondore]

Vandrayke wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

And thus any omission of pertinent game information from the back of the box is an opportunity missed to provide selling points to any potential buyer (which includes women). 

They undoubtedly created a statistical model to simulate much of what you're all discussing, and while models obviously do not replace intuition, there is more of a science to them than most people believe.  In short: they want to sell more games, they are trying their hardest to do so, and all the research they have conducted tells them that their money is better spent elsewhere

This other what is on the back of my game:

"From the maker of MASS EFFECT comes

The Dark Fantasy Epic
You are a Grey Warden, one of the last of a legenday order of guardians.  With the return of an ancient for and the kingdom engulfed in civil war, you have been chosen by the fate to unite the shattered lands and slay the archdemon once and for all. "

What could and should have been added:

6 possible playable preludes known as ‘Origin Stories’ which along with
your play, define how your hero character will see the world, how it
sees you and sets the tone for the entire story.

Dragon Age: Origins will give you deep character customization options
including: class, gender, race, appearance, abilities, and equipment.

Decide the fate of nations, people and, ultimately, yourself. Just remember: for every choice, there is a consequence.

How much would that have cost them?

Modifié par marquiseondore, 26 août 2010 - 01:28 .

[Saibh]

marquiseondore wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

And thus any omission of pertinent game information from the back of the box is an opportunity missed to provide selling points to any potential buyer (which includes women). 

They undoubtedly created a statistical model to simulate much of what you're all discussing, and while models obviously do not replace intuition, there is more of a science to them than most people believe.  In short: they want to sell more games, they are trying their hardest to do so, and all the research they have conducted tells them that their money is better spent elsewhere

This other what is on the back of my game:

"From the maker of MASS EFFECT comes

The Dark Fantasy Epic
You are a Grey Warden, one of the last of a legenday order of guardians.  With the return of an ancient for and the kingdom engulfed in civil war, you have been chosen by the fate to unite the shattered lands and slay the archdemon once and for all. "

What could and should have been added:

6 possible playable preludes known as ‘Origin Stories’ which along with
your play, define how your hero character will see the world, how it
sees you and sets the tone for the entire story.

Dragon Age: Origins will give you deep character customization options
including: class, gender, race, appearance, abilities, and equipment.

Decide the fate of nations, people and, ultimately, yourself. Just remember: for every choice, there is a consequence.

How much would that have cost them?

I'm staring at said background, and that's a lot of information to fit on there. Also, most people don't just read the back to buy a game. This should pique your interest, but not convince you to buy it. As I said, they expect you to do the research seperately. You have no way of knowing that adding all of that extra information was going to make a difference; you can make no judgement.

[addiction21]

marquiseondore wrote...


And thus any omission of pertinent game information from the back of the box is an opportunity missed to provide selling points to any potential buyer (which includes women). 

I was going to respond to the other post but I think I can get my point across better here.

How do they ensure that all the pertinent information is there for every person that is going to pick the box up? We humans are a strange lot and do the same things for very very very different reasons.
How do you inform every type of person this game has what that particular person wants on a single box, a tv ad, or that one poster you see of the game in the game store?

[Vandrayke]

marquiseondore wrote...

How much would that have cost them?

It's not really about the marginal cost of a few extra lines that you think are important.  

People can construct all kinds of other ideas, words or art, that they think should be put on the back of the box.  For every line that you see, they had many other lines that they removed via some kind of process to decide what makes for the most efficient allocation of resources.  I'm not saying you're even wrong; sometimes, the processes fail.  But they don't just come up with one idea and go with that; they come up with A LOT of ideas, debate them, start over, debate them, use statistical models where appropriate, start over, debate them again, etc, until they have what they feel is a "good idea."  

[Vandrayke]

addiction21 wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...


And thus any omission of pertinent game information from the back of the box is an opportunity missed to provide selling points to any potential buyer (which includes women). 

I was going to respond to the other post but I think I can get my point across better here.

How do they ensure that all the pertinent information is there for every person that is going to pick the box up? We humans are a strange lot and do the same things for very very very different reasons.
How do you inform every type of person this game has what that particular person wants on a single box, a tv ad, or that one poster you see of the game in the game store?

There is no, "ensure," but there is a mix of experience, intuition, and data that go into each decision.  For example, they might have data that indicate that in a psychological study, they found that the average person who pick up games spend X seconds looking at the back of games.  And that in X seconds, the average person can read X words.  And that if you include more words than that, the vast majority of the people who pick up the box will stop reading before then.  

So one might say, "Well we'd be better off with more graphic designs or more screenshots or something."  And then you find out that people only look at like 3 screenshots.  So you debate, analyze, debate, refine, etc.  And keep in mind that you never try to reach EVERYBODY.  

[Arrtis]

I think were out of the circle.

[marquiseondore]

Saibh wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

And thus any omission of pertinent game information from the back of the box is an opportunity missed to provide selling points to any potential buyer (which includes women). 

They undoubtedly created a statistical model to simulate much of what you're all discussing, and while models obviously do not replace intuition, there is more of a science to them than most people believe.  In short: they want to sell more games, they are trying their hardest to do so, and all the research they have conducted tells them that their money is better spent elsewhere

This other what is on the back of my game:

"From the maker of MASS EFFECT comes

The Dark Fantasy Epic
You are a Grey Warden, one of the last of a legenday order of guardians.  With the return of an ancient for and the kingdom engulfed in civil war, you have been chosen by the fate to unite the shattered lands and slay the archdemon once and for all. "

What could and should have been added:

6 possible playable preludes known as ‘Origin Stories’ which along with
your play, define how your hero character will see the world, how it
sees you and sets the tone for the entire story.

Dragon Age: Origins will give you deep character customization options
including: class, gender, race, appearance, abilities, and equipment.

Decide the fate of nations, people and, ultimately, yourself. Just remember: for every choice, there is a consequence.

How much would that have cost them?

I'm staring at said background, and that's a lot of information to fit on there. Also, most people don't just read the back to buy a game. This should pique your interest, but not convince you to buy it. As I said, they expect you to do the research seperately. You have no way of knowing that adding all of that extra information was going to make a difference; you can make no judgement.

Fallout 3 managed to squeeze plenty of info.   The back of the box is merely my suggestion and costs less than a Blur trailer.  Are there other suggestions put forth (other than another trailer)? I don't see them because we keep circling to the beginning.

3.2 million copies sold is a great achievement, but mirror that with Dragon Quest IX that sold more than 4 million copies in Japan alone.

[addiction21]

marquiseondore wrote...

Fallout 3 managed to squeeze plenty of info. The back of the box is merely my suggestion and costs less than a Blur trailer. Are there other suggestions put forth (other than another trailer)? I don't see them because we keep circling to the beginning.

3.2 million copies sold is a great achievement, but mirror that with Dragon Quest IX that sold more than 4 million copies in Japan alone.

Thats my problem. I just dont see it possible for everything to be on a box or on a poster or in a 30 second ad that will appeal to everyone that will see them. Be it boy gamer or girl gamer. Short gamer or tall gamer. Young or old. New gamer or long time gamer.

Modifié par addiction21, 26 août 2010 - 01:59 .

[Arrtis]

So forget trying to appeal to women.Most women play on the wii.

[tpryan01]

I wish a Bioware rep would come say something about the theory behind the US packaging of DAO, ME, ME2 and DA2

Are they designed to invoke other games?

Is their reasoning behind leaving out a gameplay description?


were there other designs that were ruled out?

Modifié par tpryan01, 26 août 2010 - 02:03 .

[Arrtis]

Thats all secret info.

They would not reveal anything to us.

[marquiseondore]

Arrtis wrote...

So forget trying to appeal to women.Most women play on the wii.

Don't knock it. I can play Zombie Ate My Neighbors on my 65" screen. 

[addiction21]

marquiseondore wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

So forget trying to appeal to women.Most women play on the wii.

Don't knock it. I can play Zombie Ate My Neighbors on my 65" screen. 

Well you just ruined my weekend. Wonder if they have Ghoul Patrol also... I needs to find this out.

Modifié par addiction21, 26 août 2010 - 02:12 .

[marquiseondore]

addiction21 wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

Fallout 3 managed to squeeze plenty of info. The back of the box is merely my suggestion and costs less than a Blur trailer. Are there other suggestions put forth (other than another trailer)? I don't see them because we keep circling to the beginning.

3.2 million copies sold is a great achievement, but mirror that with Dragon Quest IX that sold more than 4 million copies in Japan alone.

Thats my problem. I just dont see it possible for everything to be on a box or on a poster or in a 30 second ad that will appeal to everyone that will see them. Be it boy gamer or girl gamer. Short gamer or tall gamer. Young or old. New gamer or long time gamer.

If they want to sell 10 million copies, they should at least try.

[marquiseondore]

addiction21 wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

So forget trying to appeal to women.Most women play on the wii.

Don't knock it. I can play Zombie Ate My Neighbors on my 65" screen. 

Well you just ruined my weekend.

you're welcome.

[Saibh]

tpryan01 wrote...

I wish a Bioware rep would come say something about the theory behind the US packaging of DAO, ME, ME2 and DA2

Are they designed to invoke other games?

Is their reasoning behind leaving out a gameplay description?


were there other designs that were ruled out?

My Special Edition JE says absolutely nothing about the game. Just what's new in it. Oh, and little screen captions. I own compilation copies of NWN and BG, both of which say nothing about features in the game, but I'm not sure what the originals said. ME says you can customize your character, ME2 doesn't (I think).

[tpryan01]

Retracted this one:

It was getting the thread off topic. I suppose starting a debate on the virtues of certain summer films was a poor choice to open up. 

Modifié par tpryan01, 26 août 2010 - 03:10 .

[Saibh]

tpryan01 wrote...

and to the guy saying people don't pay to see female leads.

Alice in Wonderland is the 2nd highest grossing film this year and Iron Man is #3

Not saying there isn't anything to the theory, but I don't think the whopping $2k it would cost to put an 11x17 poster in every Game Stop in America is going to be a wasted investment.

or the extra cost of making 1 in 10 covers a variant with a woman on it.

a majority of comics sell around 30-50k units total and they seem to do it.

I wish you wouldn't argue "support female protagonists!" stances like that. I can think of several ways to undermine those points, and I'm on your side.

I'll simply say wanting one face to market a pre-determined protagonist is a very valid marketing theory. They won't know if it would work equally or better if they marketed Lady Hawke with dude Hawke, but they also don't have to risk it. DAO did fantastically, and they probably expect DA2 to do better. If it does, it just cements their point.

Modifié par Saibh, 26 août 2010 - 02:26 .

[marquiseondore]

Saibh wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

I wish a Bioware rep would come say something about the theory behind the US packaging of DAO, ME, ME2 and DA2

Are they designed to invoke other games?

Is their reasoning behind leaving out a gameplay description?


were there other designs that were ruled out?

My Special Edition JE says absolutely nothing about the game. Just what's new in it. Oh, and little screen captions. I own compilation copies of NWN and BG, both of which say nothing about features in the game, but I'm not sure what the originals said. ME says you can customize your character, ME2 doesn't (I think).

I need to by the BG one.  I'm not surprised that there is no info. 

@tpryan01

As Arrtis mentioned, I doubt we would be privy to any of that information. 

[tpryan01]

Saibh wrote...



I'll simply say wanting one face to market a pre-determined protagonist is a very valid marketing theory. They won't know if it would work equally or better if they marketed Lady Hawke with dude Hawke, but they also don't have to risk it. DAO did fantastically, and they probably expect DA2 to do better. If it does, it just cements their point.

It is completely valid.

But
A. It does not accurately represent the true nature of the game.

B. It will severely cut into the profits that could be acquired from any player of any gender that would only play as a woman and who are not already familiar with the game.

C. Could naturally lead EA accountants to insist there be no female option in the future. After all they aren't using it as a selling point or even making it an easy thing to discover ala ME2 where femshep was not even mentioned on the box or the site. So it is an added expense without added income and a waste of resources.  

D.  Would still mean a large number of individuals who only wish to play as a female would miss out on the amazing bioware experience.  There is a lot of money to be had out there, but they need to correctly represent their awesomeness in their advertising, not just with the female model but also about the rich interactive story and advanced ai that prety much nobody else has been able to replicate.  (If I am wrong on this last bit let me know because I want to play that game.)

Modifié par tpryan01, 26 août 2010 - 03:17 .

[kayrob]

I'm looking at my Origins cover right now and dragonage.com is in very small print on the back of the case. I don't think it would be that hard or expensive to put the URL on the front in big red letters. Or to add the URL as the last frame on a tv commerical. Then dedicate a page on the website to a description of Hawke, as the splash page or otherwise, with both the male and female concept art.



I only started to play this game because I could play as a female. And I only found out I could do that because my husband told me and convinced me to try (he had played ME too). As for movies, maybe I'm in the minority, but I would be more interested in action movies with strong female leads if they didn't all star Angelina Jolie (exaggerating slightly)

[Arrtis]

Your jumping all over the place.

Well we will see.

Arguing with us and saying this here and that over there had women in it and was successful does not say much....

Alice in wonder land

family film

had high quality graphics

was in 3d i believe

sequel of the older alice in wonder land

those things are what most likley made it successful in my mind.