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Will DA2's current marketing campaign appeal at all to new female players.


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#1151
addiction21

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Saibh wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

This is lovely, I just spent 30 minutes on a reply, full of quotes and everything, and the forums screw up.


...Pretty sure I see some quotes up there, Bryy. Posted Image


I have sometimes thought about throwing my posts into a word processor. Just to make sure I dont get bit in the ass again. Well more of to be able to run my posts thru a grammer/spell checker, but what I really think I need is a "your a tactless son ov a gun so lets throw some sugar in there so you stop coming off as a jerk" filter :)

Marketing runs on the number. Be them biased numbers or not they have the numbers and they go by them. Business's are in it for the money and I am not sure how many have been paying attention but business has been rough for everybody lately. They are going to go where they KNOW that money is. Everything else comes second.

Social change does not come quickly or easy at this level and it slows down more when peoples money and livelyhoods are at stake. Especially in this economy. EA has lost a few billion I believe it was in the past year.  They want to make that money back.

It sucks but that is the reality of the situation. Even if things change I see it as a impossibility to produce all the information in a single place that will make a game appeal to every type of person that sees it. A hundred different box arts can be put out there. A thousand different ads covering the entire spectrum of the human race can be put up and still there will be those with the same sad story as tpryan's and others.

#1152
tpryan01

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I agree but if you give up the fight when times are hard we will end up right where we were 5 years ago.

Like the companies that laid people off and now that they are increasing profits are refusing to hire people back and are making them works 2x as hard. 

If we throw away the female audience now it will be a real hard time to get them to want us back in the future. 

Modifié par tpryan01, 26 août 2010 - 07:58 .


#1153
addiction21

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tpryan01 wrote...

The brutal part? Women as a gender are really brutal. There may be some people who like to go on Fox news and make fools of themselves. But then there are others who enjoy shows like Spartacus and True Blood. I don't think anyone is asking for less butt kicking.


And being raised as a guy by a single mother in a house with 3 older sisters I know that to be true. I have the scars (and a screw in my jaw) to prove it.

#1154
marquiseondore

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addiction21 wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

The brutal part? Women as a gender are really brutal. There may be some people who like to go on Fox news and make fools of themselves. But then there are others who enjoy shows like Spartacus and True Blood. I don't think anyone is asking for less butt kicking.


And being raised as a guy by a single mother in a house with 3 older sisters I know that to be true. I have the scars (and a screw in my jaw) to prove it.


:?:(

#1155
kayrob

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marquiseondore wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I'd rather someone else with a bigger investment in this thread get into what is offensive and what is not. I just, personally, see it going in a big circle of asking for a response, getting a response, a bunch of people from both sides throwing out blanket statements, and rinse and repeat.


I for one think that a marketing campaign should be inclusive of more women and not just one that is exclusive to only that market.  I also would love to see more suggestions on how this could be achieved. :)


dragonage.com

There's no limit to what they can put on this website, and it wouldn't impact their other marketing strategies. So we would be able to get what we want (femHawke!) and Bioware would still attract their target audience with the other mediums.


/i know i repeated myself a bit
*edit - spellcheck

Modifié par kayrob, 26 août 2010 - 08:27 .


#1156
addiction21

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tpryan01 wrote...


The easy answer is that doing it both ways means more design work. But compared to the benefit that the company could get from more satisfied female gamers, which likely make up around 40 percent of its market, couldn’t that little extra work go a long way, not only toward a more contented fanbase but toward promoting gender equality in games themselves?"



It is not about "coulds" and "hypotheticals" with these people. They will focus on what they know will make them money. Everything else is a second thought.
This is the food that goes in their mouths. THe clothes that goes on their back.  Even if the numbers are  a 60/40 split in favor of males the majority of the effort will be going towards the male side and then you end up with exactly what you have been promised. "you are going to see femhawke soon" 
What that means we do not now so that is a discussion best saved for 3-4 months or so from now. Trust me BioWare has not let me down with making a fun game in a long time (Shattered Steel and I say fun not the "super awesome best game ever" because I am a realist"
And that brings up that I just cannot (it is not possible for me) to understand why some one says they see a guy and dismiss the game. If I was to make a list of the games with only a female protaganist that I love it would be decently long, and thats not including books and movies.


marquiseondore wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

The brutal part? Women as a gender are really brutal. There may be some people who like to go on Fox news and make fools of themselves. But then there are others who enjoy shows like Spartacus and True Blood. I don't think anyone is asking for less butt kicking.


And being raised as a guy by a single mother in a house with 3 older sisters I know that to be true. I have the scars (and a screw in my jaw) to prove it.


:?:(


My mother is a military veteran. She stand about 5 foot 2 inchs I was prolly about 6 foot 4 inches when this happened when I was 15. I called her a **** and she clocked me in the jaw (in front of ALL my close friends at that time) not only did she break my jaw she knocked me unconscious. I still hear about that day.
As far as the rest are concerned the women in my family have this habit of throwing whatever is within arms reach when someone is pissing them off. So take a walk around your home and it has probably been thrown at me by the ladies I love most in the world and let me tell you that is the only time they can throw with any decent accuracy.
And that is not a slight against women its just the truth about them in my family.
I have seen them throw tennis balls behind them and the story about my mother in grenade training but ****** them off they will drill you between the eyes at 50 yards.


I know I am rambling at this point but can anyone see why some men might be a bit apprehensive? I say something that can easily be taken out of context (women cant throw) and I have to make sure I fully elaborate on it to be sure that it is perfectly clear that as a man saying it I am not going to be called a chauvinistic pig. (even tho chauvinistic is a exaggerated bellicose patriotism) Damn saved by the bell. Rambling again and I know I am on Woo's hit list. At least I made it thru so many posts without mentioning waffles.

#1157
marquiseondore

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kayrob wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I'd rather someone else with a bigger investment in this thread get into what is offensive and what is not. I just, personally, see it going in a big circle of asking for a response, getting a response, a bunch of people from both sides throwing out blanket statements, and rinse and repeat.


I for one think that a marketing campaign should be inclusive of more women and not just one that is exclusive to only that market.  I also would love to see more suggestions on how this could be achieved. :)


dragonage.com

There's no limit to what they can put on this website, and it wouldn't impact their other marketing strategies. So we would be able to get what we want (femHawke!) and Bioware would still attract their target audience with the other mediums.


/i know i repeated myself a bit
*edit - spellcheck


:mellow:
This is about new gamers.  You know the ones that don't know about Bioware or never heard of Dragon Age.  We already know about the website. 

#1158
Aeowyn

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I can both agree and disagree with this whole thread.
Yes I am a female gamer and although I don't have the gaming history that some of you do (started playing games for real when a male friend introduced me to KotOR) I still believe that gender neutral marketing could be introduced.

Personally I don't really read up on all the games before I buy them. I am more into RPGs than anything else and if I'm at the Game store and see a front cover that seems interesting the first thing I do is read the back. If I am still not sure about it, yes, then I go home and read about it some more.

I remember when my friend told me about Mass Effect (shortly after it was announced). By then I was well in love with KotOR and treated BioWare like Gods, but I do remember that I was really afraid that you wouldn't be able to play a female PC in Mass Effect; the cinematics and whatnot I found sure didn't indicate anything. I played through ME as Jack Shepard once and played a Male Revan as well, but those playthroughs really did not give me the same satisfaction I had when playing female chars.

For me it's not "Oh if I cant play a female character I won't buy the game". It's more about having a character I can actually relate to. That's just me though.
I loved DAO, I'm ashamed to say how many playthroughs I've gone through, and yes I will most likely buy DA2. BUT, it would just be nice for ONCE to actually get a marketing campaign with a female PC, something females who feel like me can get excited about. Yes, I know they will show Lady Hawke soon, but I have a feeling that what they will show of the female PC is only a fragment compared to what tight-pants Hawke will get. (Even though he is Hawt. Pixel candy ftw.)

Also, there are female gamers and then there are female gamers. Some women do play games and enjoy them but they might not read the forums or research on the internet etc. I am pretty sure that if e.g. a DA2 commercial was shown on TV that actually shows a bit of what you can do (and that you can play both male and female PCs!) many women would buy the game.
Anyway too much writing and not even sure if I make any sense. Continue the discussion.

#1159
Dr. wonderful

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As far as I can tell, Bioware is REALLY bad at t marketing to female players.



Example, I remember my friend never wanted to play Origins because she thought it was just another stupid game aimed at 13 year old players.



So after the game came out, My first character was a Female Noble, who was also used the double handed sword. The female friiend from earlier would not stopped asking me what game I was playing. (I was hellbent to make sure she didn't knew, after all, she DID say it was a stupid game for 13 years old :D)



So one day, I gave out the answer...three days later she was calling me on how to get past The sloth demon in the Broken circle quest.



So the question of my story, how come we can't see a lady hawke? It's not that hard.






#1160
addiction21

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marquiseondore wrote...


:mellow:
This is about new gamers.  You know the ones that don't know about Bioware or never heard of Dragon Age.  We already know about the website. 


Well it is not like websites are a unknown source of information. Lets try to be fair to all. There will be guys and giurls that see the adverts and not interested. Then there will be those that go  "ohhhh sword play and magic I like those things let me look for this Dragon age thing" Then there will be those that see the same thing and could say "I dont like swords, magic and a fantasy setting" I have a best friend that is ashamed to be seen in the fantasy isle of the libary and book store but he LOVES THEM. Enough to share them with those he is closest to.
Again to be fair there is a big game info tab. If that is not clear enough then I do not know what is.
I could be wrong but this thread has made me investigate that site heavily and I only see one instance of male hawke being shown blatently (the front page) but there is that big game info tab. If someone makes it there and are actually interested in the game they will go and look around there.
They wont just go "oh look its a guy this aint for me".
THIS IS JUST ME but I find that type of thought process bigoted and narrow minded. That is me. I just lack the ability to understand that line of thought.
I just can not imagine someone doing that. Be it movies, books,video games, or .etc etc etc...

#1161
kayrob

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marquiseondore wrote...

kayrob wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I'd rather someone else with a bigger investment in this thread get into what is offensive and what is not. I just, personally, see it going in a big circle of asking for a response, getting a response, a bunch of people from both sides throwing out blanket statements, and rinse and repeat.


I for one think that a marketing campaign should be inclusive of more women and not just one that is exclusive to only that market.  I also would love to see more suggestions on how this could be achieved. :)


dragonage.com

There's no limit to what they can put on this website, and it wouldn't impact their other marketing strategies. So we would be able to get what we want (femHawke!) and Bioware would still attract their target audience with the other mediums.


/i know i repeated myself a bit
*edit - spellcheck


:mellow:
This is about new gamers.  You know the ones that don't know about Bioware or never heard of Dragon Age.  We already know about the website. 


Yes, and I appreciate that. But I'm a  new gamer and I found the website (thanks, Google!). I'm not saying that it's a perfect solution, and obviously some new female gamers, like me, will have to be told about the game by someone else first, but it's at least a compromise, and the website would be able to give a lot more information (that would appeal to female gamers) than a box ever could.

#1162
Daur

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*sigh*



A male oriented commercial will attract more potentia gamers than a female centered one ever will



thems the facts

#1163
addiction21

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Aeowyn wrote...


Also, there are female gamers and then there are female gamers. Some women do play games and enjoy them but they might not read the forums or research on the internet etc. I am pretty sure that if e.g. a DA2 commercial was shown on TV that actually shows a bit of what you can do (and that you can play both male and female PCs!) many women would buy the game.
Anyway too much writing and not even sure if I make any sense. Continue the discussion.


FIrst I can sympathize with the "not sure if I am making sense"

I agree they could do more but at the same time its a game ran by numbers and that is what they want to focus on.

And I will continue my ramblings (waiting on ME2 DLC to DL) but BURN NOTICE. I do love the show. Yes a guy is the face of the show but Fiona and the mother. I cannot help but imagine my moms being exatcly the same has Westons and Fiona as a few of my girl friends.
Love the show and its not a bad thing to mention Bruce Cambell (Evil dead cameo roles in all the spider man movies)

#1164
addiction21

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Daur wrote...

*sigh*

A male oriented commercial will attract more potentia gamers than a female centered one ever will

thems the facts


Show me the numbers please that proves your point. They are facts right? Then show me the facts.

#1165
AlanC9

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Dr. wonderful wrote...

As far as I can tell, Bioware is REALLY bad at t marketing to female players.

Example, I remember my friend never wanted to play Origins because she thought it was just another stupid game aimed at 13 year old players.

So after the game came out, My first character was a Female Noble, who was also used the double handed sword. The female friiend from earlier would not stopped asking me what game I was playing. (I was hellbent to make sure she didn't knew, after all, she DID say it was a stupid game for 13 years old :D)

So one day, I gave out the answer...three days later she was calling me on how to get past The sloth demon in the Broken circle quest.

So the question of my story, how come we can't see a lady hawke? It's not that hard.



Would a lady Hawke have changed your friend's mind about DAO being a stupid game aimed at 13-year-old players? Or would she have just thought it was a stupid game aimed at 13-year-old players that had a female PC?

That is, is not seeing a female Hawke just a small aspect of a much larger marketing problem?

#1166
WingsandRings

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Dr. wonderful wrote...

As far as I can tell, Bioware is REALLY bad at t marketing to female players.



If this is true (and I don't know if it is, because I know nothing about marketing strategy, or Bioware's strategy compared to other video game designers') then it's especially sad, because I consider Bioware to be at the top of designing games that actually APPEAL to a multitude of players, whether it's age, gender, people who don't usually like RPGs, whatever.  That should be something they capitalize on -- that so many people like their games, even if they don't usually play video games/play RPGs/etc -- instead of playing into the "well boys play more than girls so that's who we need to market to."

Hell, I could be wrong; I know nothing about marketing or anything else business related.  I just think Bioware sells itself short in its own popularity and the diversity of people it attracts.

#1167
tpryan01

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AlanC9 wrote...

That is, is not seeing a female Hawke just a small aspect of a much larger marketing problem?


I would say yes.

Bioware games are nothing like anything  I have ever seen which means that a simple cinematic isn't going to get the job done. 

Modifié par tpryan01, 26 août 2010 - 09:29 .


#1168
Daur

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addiction21 wrote...

Daur wrote...

*sigh*

A male oriented commercial will attract more potentia gamers than a female centered one ever will

thems the facts


Show me the numbers please that proves your point. They are facts right? Then show me the facts.

female centered games have always had less sales (with a couple of exceptions) than male centered games

you can look at any website that has those figures, hell google will pull up a bunch

#1169
Saibh

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Daur wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Daur wrote...

*sigh*

A male oriented commercial will attract more potentia gamers than a female centered one ever will

thems the facts


Show me the numbers please that proves your point. They are facts right? Then show me the facts.

female centered games have always had less sales (with a couple of exceptions) than male centered games

you can look at any website that has those figures, hell google will pull up a bunch


I can point out that female-centered game tend to be games like Cooking Mama or Hello Kitty Island Adventure and are for young girls.

As many men like to point out, women love The Sims, and it's the fourth most successful franchise in gaming. So, in both cases, either you don't have an accurate way to tell because they don't sell games catering to female adults, or you include the Sims and render your own point invalid because it does so well. The other three--Pokemon, Tetris and Mario--are gender neutral.

#1170
Litos456

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I don't think Bioware cares about appealing to the 6 girls that play their games.

Sorry ladies.

#1171
AlanC9

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How does Bethesda handle their marketing, anyway?

#1172
marquiseondore

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addiction21 wrote...

[My mother is a military veteran. She stand about 5 foot 2 inchs I was prolly about 6 foot 4 inches when this happened when I was 15. I called her a **** and she clocked me in the jaw (in front of ALL my close friends at that time) not only did she break my jaw she knocked me unconscious. I still hear about that day.
As far as the rest are concerned the women in my family have this habit of throwing whatever is within arms reach when someone is pissing them off. So take a walk around your home and it has probably been thrown at me by the ladies I love most in the world and let me tell you that is the only time they can throw with any decent accuracy.
And that is not a slight against women its just the truth about them in my family.
I have seen them throw tennis balls behind them and the story about my mother in grenade training but ****** them off they will drill you between the eyes at 50 yards.


I know I am rambling at this point but can anyone see why some men might be a bit apprehensive? I say something that can easily be taken out of context (women cant throw) and I have to make sure I fully elaborate on it to be sure that it is perfectly clear that as a man saying it I am not going to be called a chauvinistic pig. (even tho chauvinistic is a exaggerated bellicose patriotism) Damn saved by the bell. Rambling again and I know I am on Woo's hit list. At least I made it thru so many posts without mentioning waffles.


It's saddening to hear about physical violence against a child/children.  This is something I sincerely believe.


As for the rest of other posts so far...

Posted Image

Wake me up when we get past this part.

Modifié par marquiseondore, 26 août 2010 - 11:46 .


#1173
tpryan01

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Daur wrote...


female centered games have always had less sales (with a couple of exceptions) than male centered games

you can look at any website that has those figures, hell google will pull up a bunch


This is a trap for 2 reasons

1. A majority of games do not have female avatars. 
2. by noting there are exceptions any game we bring up will be poo pooed or deemed not relevent. 

So I think the burden is on you to prove a game with content for both genders sells better when marketed solely to men. 

#1174
tpryan01

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Wow this came out today

Study: Playable Character Gender Does Not Impact Sales
Average quality scores for games with female leads higher than games with male stars. 

#1175
tpryan01

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here is another
http://www.industryg...main-character/