1507 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

A classic example.

Modifié par Maverick827, 27 août 2010 - 03:22 .

[tpryan01]

except EA seems to value them enough to pay for their data

Modifié par tpryan01, 27 août 2010 - 03:41 .

[Uidori]

I am guessing Daur's point is that if it isn't broken why fix it?  If people buy the game regardless of the gender of the main character then there isn't much incentive for anyone to worry about gender equality in games as it's going to sell just as well.

For myself I liked the DA:O marketing, and after looking info up was happy I could play a female character.  Same thing when I picked up Borderlands.  If a game allows it I always prefer to play my gender, but it's not necessarily going to make me not buy it if I can't.  I would never play any of the Zelda games if that was the case.

Maybe it's just me, but when I see advertising for a game I do try to look up more info on it.  Dragon Age looked pretty, I loved the dialogue options and the interaction in the party and of course the romance of it.  Of all the Bioware games it definitely has huge appeal to women.  My female friends gush over the game more than the guys do.  As my boyfriend puts it, "Dragon Age destroys relationships!"

[Vandrayke]

tpryan01 wrote...

Wow this came out today

Study: Playable Character Gender Does Not Impact Sales
Average quality scores for games with female leads higher than games with male stars. 

Nice!  Timing couldn't have been better to see this study.  Also, I like female protagonists, so this is good news to me.  

[Vandrayke]

Maverick827 wrote...

I never said that it had no impact; I'm sure all of the teenage boys fawning over the game wouldn't have enjoyed playing a girl as much as the "badass" or "totally cool, bro" shallow character of Master Chief on which they can project their own failings as men.
But it is entirely uninformed of you to say that games with male leads are more successful than games with female leads without taking into account other factors, among them but not limited to the quality of each game as a whole.
Say it with me: "correlation does not imply causation."

I think that almost all of forum posters completely fail when it comes to this concept.  

[Vandrayke]

tpryan01 wrote...

except EA seems to value them enough to pay for their data

I feel it necessary to point out that it's not the ONLY data they pay for and that studies should never be taken at face value.  They shouldn't be utterly dismissed, either; it's just more information to put in the information blender.  

And I'm not saying that you think otherwise or anything. 

[AntiChri5]

Compare the pair:



1.



2.



Would you bye the game after seeing number 2 but not after seeing 1?

[maxernst]

tpryan01 wrote...

Wow this came out today

Study: Playable Character Gender Does Not Impact Sales
Average quality scores for games with female leads higher than games with male stars. 

It seems to me that means Bioware doesn't to need to worry very much about the gender in the advertisements...not really an argument one way or the other.  Frankly, the trailer provides almost no information about the game whatsoever.  It feels like they're assuming everybody knows Bioware and Dragon Age, so all they need to do is announce the game is out with a splashy dramatic video.  So viewing this video my first thought would not be "I'm going to be playing that guy in DA2" but "I'm going to be playing a game similar to the previous Dragon Age game".  So if I want an idea of what DA2 is like, I'd look up to Da2.  Then the shock to me about DA2 would not be that I can play as female, but that I can't play as an elf or a dwarf...which I wouldn't know by looking at the ad.

[AntiChri5]

maxernst wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

Wow this came out today

Study: Playable Character Gender Does Not Impact Sales
Average quality scores for games with female leads higher than games with male stars. 

It seems to me that means Bioware doesn't to need to worry very much about the gender in the advertisements...not really an argument one way or the other.  Frankly, the trailer provides almost no information about the game whatsoever.  It feels like they're assuming everybody knows Bioware and Dragon Age, so all they need to do is announce the game is out with a splashy dramatic video.  So viewing this video my first thought would not be "I'm going to be playing that guy in DA2" but "I'm going to be playing a game similar to the previous Dragon Age game".  So if I want an idea of what DA2 is like, I'd look up to Da2.  Then the shock to me about DA2 would not be that I can play as female, but that I can't play as an elf or a dwarf...which I wouldn't know by looking at the ad.

The trailers are basically a way to throw out a net and see how many of the gazilions of immature "oooh shiny!!1!1" types they can catch.

[addiction21]

MariSkep wrote...
snip to save page room

Well I will agre to disagree why you ignore something.I find it juvenile to act that way and to think it is just about your mind being swayed when you had the opportunity to sawy anothers but instead walk of saying "on a fundamental level" with out ever providing a counter argument or evidence in support of your stance.

Word of Mouth is a very real marketing and advertising stratergy. It is a true blue stratergy used by companies for a while now.

http://www.washingto...=rss_technology
There is an article describing the FTC (Federal Trade Commision) stepping in to stop some sneaky word of mouth practices.
Some qoutes
"The Federal Trade Commission yesterday said that companies engaging in word-of-mouth marketing"
"Word-of-mouth marketing can take any form of peer-to-peer communication, such as a post on a Web blog, a MySpace.com page for a movie character, or the comments of a stranger on a bus. "
"As the practice has taken hold over the past several years, however, some advocacy groups have questioned whether marketers are using such tactics to dupe consumers into believing they are getting unbiased information"
"Procter & Gamble spokesman Terry Loftus said participants in its word-of-mouth campaigns "

A spokesmen for a major corporation says they run word of mouth campaigns.

I guess your just going to disagree on another "funamental" level?


Why would they look around? I gave a reason but you clearly did not read it and yet some how just cut it out. Here ya go

addiction21 wrote...

In fact looking around a little would probably bring you more fun since you will be able to find those gems you missed for whatever the reason.

This is not a hard concept to grasp. No matter the marketing used. No matter the variety in the adds made to appeal to certain people. No matter how many there are. No matter how much they are thrown around. No matter how many places and how many times these ads are shown. There will always be those that did not see the right add with the right stuff to get them interested enough to buy said product.
In the future hopefully we see some more of that effort going in the ladies direction but even then that does not mean they will see that addvert.
I do not fault those people that missed it or the companies for not getting the information to them.

I will agree to disagree.

[tpryan01]

addiction21,

out of curiosity and not to get off topic, but...

Do you feel that a game with a strong fanbase and lets say a $20,000 ad budget could outsell a brand new game with a $2,000,000 marketing budget? 

Modifié par tpryan01, 27 août 2010 - 08:15 .

[Arrtis]

Yes the posibility is there.

How do you guys put multiple quotes in one post.

[Bobad]

Arrtis wrote...

Yes the posibility is there.
How do you guys put multiple quotes in one post.

I'd suggest having the forums open in more than one tab and copying and pasting after pressing quote, that's how I do it.

[Vandrayke]

MariSkep wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

Wow this came out today

Study: Playable Character Gender Does Not Impact Sales
Average quality scores for games with female leads higher than games with male stars. 

Nice!  Timing couldn't have been better to see this study.  Also, I like female protagonists, so this is good news to me.  

I'm not sure that means very much to the consumer but I'm happy to see game critics are willing to do their jobs.

Yeah I dunno how much will filter down to the consumer but at least the marketers have some data in their pockets that don't say, "make your protagonist male, OR ELSE!"

[Blessed Silence]

I guess I am a female gamer in a minority, but I really don't care who the main character is in a game.  That doesn't pull me in as much as story and graphics.

I started playing games back on the Commodore 64 where you didn't see your character at all.  Same on the Atari.  My first real computer was a 386 my father built from scratch.  And my first RPG game wasEye of the Beholder.  This game and others like it (Pool of Radiance, and the Dark Queen of Krynn series among others) was based on ADnD rules where you could be whatever you wanted to be, male or female, elf or human etc.  So I never worried about it.

Then came the days of Doom and Quake and Duke Nukem.  I loved those games.  It didn't bother me that the player was male because that didn't matter as shooting bad guys and enjoying the game was top on my list.

Now that there are more casual games coming out (Peggle, Bejewled etc) and even the Wii system catering to all ages, more women young and old are getting interested in computers.  Before my mother passed in March, she loved playing mini golf, Centepede, and Asteroids.  I have a feeling that is where most women players come from (casual gaming).

Games have matured over the years, and though I do think it is awesome to have more choice in who I play, I really don't care if they are male or female.  On topic with DA2 I would like to see something with fem!Hawke to show how different the character is (not a male model with boobs slapped on) for those gamers who really like immersing themselves in a female personae.

[tpryan01]

I don't have time now but does anyone have a sec to make a quick table with marketing budgets vs sales figures for the top 10 games of 2009 or 2010?

[tpryan01]

Blessed Silence,



On this board that is not rare I think. Amongst us old ladies at least. I've been playing since ColecoVision and the TI-99 4A and zork... (you are truly an old schooler if you remember zork)

[addiction21]

[

tpryan01 wrote...

addiction21,

out of curiosity and not to get off topic, but...

Do you feel that a game with a strong fanbase and lets say a $20,000 ad budget could outsell a brand new game with a $2,000,000 marketing budget? 

Well its a tough one.  But some things are up in the air. How large is this fanbase? What kind of games are we comparing? Does the former have such a small budget because they are a indy company or developing a niche game like eschalon book 2 (isometric turn based wingle player RPG. Number 2 comes with the gender opition *wink wink*)? Is the later with the million dollar budget a big company making something more mainstream?

Sorry I am no fun with hypotheticals because I over think things too much but to ansswer your question. Yes I do think it could happen but I do not think it is common.

The company with such a smaller budget like that (1% of the later) will not be able to do as much, have as much variety in their marketing, and wont reach as many as the company that can throw a 100 times that into their marketing.

[tpryan01]

I think you might be too busy looking at the trees to see the forest lol ;-). 


I will try and come up with some details tonight I am headed out in a few...

Modifié par tpryan01, 27 août 2010 - 09:00 .

[addiction21]

tpryan01 wrote...

I think you might be too busy looking at the trees to see the forest lol ;-). 

Something I hear a lot. Of course I am not fond of trees. Smug bastards always dropping seeds, leaves and branches on my house.

[tpryan01]

I was thinking again why we have so many annecdotes of women who originally assumed the game was not inclusive of them only to find out from a friend how amazing it is.

So I started thinking and looking at sales charts
I will concede that most games classified as RPG (which DA:O is) have female playable characters

Top PS3 RPG Games by Sales
Top 360 RPG Games by Sales
Top PC RPG Games by Sales

So, then I thought that maybe the problem is that the game seems to be marketing to the adventure category  when it is actually an RPG.

But the Adventure category also seems to have top games with ladies on the box.

Top PS3 Adventure Games by Sales 
Top 360 Adventure Games by Sales  (of course this indicates you should put a lego Hawke on the box)
Top PC Adventure Games by Sales

So then I thought maybe they are marketing to the Action category and BINGO! We have our marketing model.
Most games in the Action category feature only a male PC. So I think most women are assuming the game is an Action game based on the box art and tv ads and are not bothering to pursue the game.  

Top PS3 Action Games by Sales
Top 360 Action Games by Sales
Top PC Action Games by Sales (this one seems a little light to me)

for 360 we have 3 games in action that top the top seller in RPG

GTA IV
Assasins Creed
Assassins Creed II
(all 3 of these had insanely large marketing budgets)

In PS3 we have no games that top the RPG highest perfromer. 

So why would EA market a game to a category that doesn't match how they classify the game internally?

My guess is that they are looking specifically at the Assasins Creed franchise. Now Assassins Creed II had an amazingly large tv ad campaign (superbowl even) based around a well done CGI trailer with a male protagonist. 

I also point out again the strong (possible subconscious) design similarities between the Assassin's Creed II box and the Dragon Age 2 box. 

For fun here are top sales all categories
Top PS3  by Sales
Top 360  by Sales
Top PC  by Sale


Still trying to figure out what this all means
any thoughts?

Modifié par tpryan01, 28 août 2010 - 07:36 .

[lv12medic]

tpryan01 wrote...
*snip RESEARCH*

Still trying to figure out what this all means
any thoughts?

Based off all that, I would say that it looks like the DA2 ad campaign so far (and the ME2 ad campaign) is targeting the "Action" market for the consoles.  From that information the "Action" game market for consoles tends to be the best selling in terms of number of units sold for huge budget blockbuster type games (CoD, Halo, Gears of War, etc.).

I'm guessing they are trying to gun for the largest demographic possible?  It makes some sense I suppose, though it could backfire as well.  I don't know.  The advertisment at least seems to aim for the largest number of people possible per dollar spent (advertising like "Action" games).  Rather than the largest number of people in the target audience possible per dollar spent (advertising as an "RPG" game).

*Funny thing, I tried searching for Dragon Age on their site, and it comes up with sale figures for Xbox360 and PS3 but not for PC.*