1507 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

AlanC9 wrote...

KIrving wrote...
When I see these, stock standard, trailers or gamecovers featuring a male hero with a big sword I just get bored.  I don't feel inspired to do research.  I don't want to have to sift through screenshots, search forums and interviews, previews or reviews just to find out if I get to play the game with a female character. 

So you actually know that you're missing out on some games that you'd like, since some of those games will have a potential female PC despite not having a female PC in the trailer.

How's that working for you?   And how did you discover DA?

Like a person is sooooo deprived if they don't play every video game ever made. 

I really don't care if video games are marketed to women or not.  Most mass entertainment is a huge pile of mediocrity anyway.  If DA wants to sit squarely in the formulaic souped-up T&A-fest of summer action movie type promotions, it's their deal.  I have plenty of places where I can spend my time and entertainment dollars, so it's all the same to me.

Modifié par Addai67, 02 septembre 2010 - 05:06 .

[Count Viceroy]

MariSkep wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

Exactly, Addai. It's easy for the guys to say that they don't give a damn if the game has a male or female character when like 90% of the time it *is* male. I wonder what they would be saying if situation was different, if most games had female characters?

I was just waiting for this one.

It's pretty straight forward. Because we are not in the same situation we cannot say how we would react to said situation. 

Think of it this way, can someone whose never been in a high stress situation be counted on to accurately represent how they'd behave if the building were on fire?

edited to make it clearer. I hope.

Then how are we supposed to have any sort of input on the subject when everything can dismissed by "you don't know what it's like"?

[Russalka]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Then how are we supposed to have any sort of input on the subject when everything can dismissed by "you don't know what it's like"?

Nothing can or should be dismissed. People should just take into consideration that they cannot precisely know how certain things are like for others.

[maxernst]

MariSkep wrote...

maxernst wrote...

KIrving wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

KIrving wrote...
When I see these, stock standard, trailers or gamecovers featuring a male hero with a big sword I just get bored.  I don't feel inspired to do research.  I don't want to have to sift through screenshots, search forums and interviews, previews or reviews just to find out if I get to play the game with a female character. 

So you actually know that you're missing out on some games that you'd like, since some of those games will have a potential female PC despite not having a female PC in the trailer.

Oops...forgot Planescape: Torment.  Still, it's very very unusual, and it only happens when you're playing a specific character.  But it's still very unusual.

How's that working for you?   And how did you discover DA?

Yes.  However the odds are extremely likely that I'll just waste many hours doing research on a game, only to find out that there is no option to play a female pc. 

Many hours???  Okay, I just went to Bioware's website to look up Dragon Age 2.  I clicked on game info which heads off with frequently asked questions.

9.  What will my character be like?  Your character in Dragon Age 2 will be a legendary figure in the history
of Thedas. Not only will you hear people respond to your conversations,
but your character will also be be fully-voiced. You will play as a
human male or female of any class you wish: Warrior, Mage or Rogue.

Five minutes max.

Two things.

You had a specific website and game in mind. Imagine looking for a new game just by going off what genre it's going to be. You're going to spend a lot of time looking through different games, hoping to fin done that appeals to you and odds are you'll still largely be wasting your time.

If you're going by genre, then you would certainly expect it to allow both male & female PC's because virtually ALL Western RPG's do.  I don't think I've ever played one where you couldn't play a female...the Witcher is the only one I can think of that doesn't.  Unless you count hybrid shooters like Deus Ex as RPG's.

Edited to add:  Forgot Planescape: Torment.  But it's still very unusual.

Modifié par maxernst, 02 septembre 2010 - 06:30 .

[Erode_The_Soul]

I've read about 35 pages into this thing, but stopped because the bickering going back and forth here is mind-numbing, so forgive me if this is just a rehash.

I'm a gamer who is also female, and I was attracted to Dragon Age because it was made by Bioware. For me, throwing LadyHawke out there as their iconic Hawke would be beneficial in way other than attracting my demographic to their game. The advertisements I remember seeing for DA were very ho-hum, but it didn't have anything really to do with the gender of the PC. For me, everything about the adverts (at least on television) seemed generic and done before.

What could set them apart from this is allowing their iconic character to be female; one that is tasteful and strong and just as badass as her male counterpart. Think, how rare is it these days to see a lady warrior grace the cover of a game with something other than breasts, hips and pouty lips to entice horny gamers to buy it? Bioware is more than capable of creating a female PC that breaks that mold, why not show her off? I'd be very interested in a game that depicted a strong female warrior, fully clothed and kicking ass, rather than shaking hers for the males (PCs or otherwise) amusement.

[RachelSkywalker]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

I've read about 35 pages into this thing, but stopped because the bickering going back and forth here is mind-numbing, so forgive me if this is just a rehash.
I'm a gamer who is also female, and I was attracted to Dragon Age because it was made by Bioware. For me, throwing LadyHawke out there as their iconic Hawke would be beneficial in way other than attracting my demographic to their game. The advertisements I remember seeing for DA were very ho-hum, but it didn't have anything really to do with the gender of the PC. For me, everything about the adverts (at least on television) seemed generic and done before.
What could set them apart from this is allowing their iconic character to be female; one that is tasteful and strong and just as badass as her male counterpart. Think, how rare is it these days to see a lady warrior grace the cover of a game with something other than breasts, hips and pouty lips to entice horny gamers to buy it? Bioware is more than capable of creating a female PC that breaks that mold, why not show her off? I'd be very interested in a game that depicted a strong female warrior, fully clothed and kicking ass, rather than shaking hers for the males (PCs or otherwise) amusement.

I couldn't agree more.

My main point is that fans of Bioware are LIFE LONG fans. After I played through Knights of the Old Republic I made a point to remember who was responsible for it. It was just THAT amazing of a game for me... The only reasons I got into Dragon Age and Mass Effect were because they were brought to us by my beloved Bioware... 

Well, what about other women gamers who pick up any Bioware game case at Best Buy and only see the traditional image of the male lead enveloping the cover, flanked by a beautiful woman and trusty sidekick. Frankly, it's not nearly as interesting or groundbreaking as these games actually are for a female gamer... I was on Jezebel.com (women's interests blog) the other day and there was an article about a new iphone(?) app game that was a "choose your own adventure" type style. This mini game was getting attention and praise by the Jezebel community however, because it allowed for same sex romance. Well of course I giggled to myself a bit and had to go on there and post a lovely video of the plethora of male/female Bioware romances, because frankly, Bioware, has been giving the option of same sex relationships for a LONG time. (Good ol' Juhani...) And then of course I mentioned, not only can you have all this romancing fun, but you also get to save the world in these games.

Well, nary to my surprise there were lots of intrigued responses to my posting about Bioware games... Women came on going, "I LOVE BIOWARE" to "Awesome! What IS that game??" or "I'm not much of a gamer but that looks like fun!" etc.

There are SO MANY potential female fans, it makes me WEEP Bioware. Yes, the majority of the market is male, but partly because YOU LIMIT it so.... You are enabling this male centric market. But look at the facts! Women gamers are on the rise, and all the most successful fandoms of any medium ARE so successful because they speak across gender. Despite the stereotypes, the past 4 Star Wars conventions I've attended have been about 60% male, 40% female. ACKNOWLEDGE US! WE ARE WORTH INVESTING IN! Other sci-fi and fantasy fandoms have equal amounts of female fans- Star Trek, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Avatar: The Last Airbender...

Bioware, since you already "own" the male demographic, most of them probably won't need much, if ANY, convincing of whether or not to buy your next release. So step it up and work on equality within your marketing. Sure, release the male centric trailers of DA2, but also try releasing one featuring JUST Lady Hawke. Try releasing another which features BOTH options, proudly!! Send them to Jezebel.com even! That site has over 10 million (predominately female) views per month! Reel in those potential fans! They will love you for it and it will show come release day.

Bioware is SUCH a progressive and innovative gaming company, that to see it behave in such a conservative way when it comes to marketing disheartens a part of me... Bioware, it's time to step up and out of this "Games 4 Gurlz", "Pink it and shrink it" traditional marketing mentality all gaming companies seem to fall into. Bioware you are SO MUCH better than that. The female characters you create have always been smart, strong, and beautiful. Within every game you've released, ME, KotR, JE, DA, you treat them like equals to their male companions.

It's time to start treating your potential and long standing female demographic with just as much love.

Hell, hire me Bioware, I'll do it for free.

"Change is coming to the world. Some fear change and will fight it with every fibre of their being. But sometimes, change is what they need most. Sometimes, change is what sets them free." -Morrigan 

Modifié par RachelSkywalker, 13 septembre 2010 - 03:14 .

[errant_knight]

I've been completely turned off by everything that's come out of the marketing department, not just on line media, but the things they say at conventions and in interviews. If it weren't for the interviews with the people working on the game, and what they say in the forums, I would have lost interest completely. In my opinion, the marketing has been horribly botched, turning off many fans of DA:O, but particularly many women.

[Maconbar]

Maybe BW should put Flemeth in charge of marketing (I would have suggested Morrigan but she will be off-stage during Act 2, I mean DA:2.).

[RachelSkywalker]

Lilacs wrote...
I really enjoyed reading your post. Nice post and I do share your opinions here.  It would be terrific if Bioware heeds this.  I would have a girls day out if this ever comes to fruition.  I will also blast it all across my website and blog sites, too.

Thank you!

I too would have a HUUUUUGE celebration the day Bioware decides to step it up. I just hope it'll be sooner rather than later... I mean honestly, how hard would it be to simply INCLUDE Lady Hawke or Fem!Shep in the promos, ads, and case design? They would literally not have to change a THING about the game OR spend more money in marketing than they already do and I am positive they would not only keep their male demographic interested but also reel in new female fans. 

It's just what- Bioware was created in 1995? Well it's 2010 now and EVERYTHING BUT the marketing within their company and gameplay has progressed. 15 years of male centric advertising and they wonder why THAT is their 
demographic majority? *headdesk* What a perfect excuse to continue to ignore the female demographic for many more years to come... 

[Collider]

I say Bioware makes an IP which features only androgynous, single gendered races. There's no concept of men or women, just people.

[Vandrayke]

Save the Fereldiverse as Pat!

[Collider]

Exactly! It's exciting and heroic, and politically correct.

[Mecha Tengu]

Collider wrote...

I say Bioware makes an IP which features only androgynous, single gendered races. There's no concept of men or women, just people.

nah DA2 aint gonna be a JRPG

[Vegielamb]

Chris Priestly wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...

"While male video gamers still outnumber women 2 to 1, women have the edge in online games, a survey has found."

http://news.cnet.com..._3-6123172.html

you can argue the merits of this Nielsen survey, but the fact is we are far more common than marketers will acknowledge.

I edited the title for you as you omited a key element in trying to support your arguement. While the percentage population of online gaming audence may be growing or higher, the audence for our games is still predominantly male. This does not mean the female gamer, or again, the male gamer who prefers to play a female character is less important, but it should in part explain why some marketing campaigns are targetted as they are.

As I said in another thread, BioWare always has and continues to greatly support and value our female gaming audience. I hope in the (roughly) 8 months between now and launch female gamers find materials in our marketing that they enjoy.

You know, I've noticed that the amount of fanfiction produced for a given work is fairly representative of the number of females really paying attention to that work. The fanfiction numbers for Dragon Age and Mass Effect are close to the numbers for several very popular JRPGs. I wonder if anyone’s done a study on this…

Anyway, I don't think most female gamers feel like they need to play a female lead. It's nice once in awhile, but western culture has been fairly consistent in only writing epics with men. And honestly, most game writers write terrible female characters that are just ridiculously stereotypical and that I can’t relate to at all (being female myself). Bioware actually does a good job creating realistic women most of the time.

[Vegielamb]

Em23 wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

tpryan01 wrote...
Collider
I agree not everyone always plays their own gender. But the question is how do most people feel about playing as another gender, and because the option is there wouldn't you sell more by advertising it?

I can't say I agree. There more suitables games for people that just want to play a different gender. I can't talk for the girls on the forum, but I'm almost sure most of them don't played Dragon Age just because they could play as a girl.

I think many of you male gamers find it hard to understand because you can take being able to play as a male for granted.

Imagine it was the other way around: nearly all games made you play as a female and most of those that didn't have the male overly sexualised and specifically designed to appeal to immature female gamers.

Wouldn't you then find a game that lets you play as an unsexualised, independent, strong male to have lots of appeal?
Does it make more sense now?

Yeah, imagine every game had Final Fantasy style men.

[Vegielamb]

Anarya wrote...

saruman31 wrote...

There is a big female community on these bioware forums. However, i am 100% sure that if they remove the romance/li subplots more than half of it will leave asap.

One of my all-time favorite games is Metal Gear Solid 3. Romantic!

(It's about as romantic as your average Bond film)

Actually... the average Japanese game is very feminine by western standards (including this one). They tend to emphasize:

1. relationships are important
2. melodrama

I think this is why so many girl gamers seem to love a lot of Japanese games.

Modifié par Vegielamb, 15 septembre 2010 - 11:24 .

[Beocat]

Chris Priestly wrote...

This does not mean the female gamer, or again, the male gamer who prefers to play a female character is less important, but it should in part explain why some marketing campaigns are targetted as they are.

As I said in another thread, BioWare always has and continues to greatly support and value our female gaming audience. I hope in the (roughly) 8 months between now and launch female gamers find materials in our marketing that they enjoy.

Targetting your marketing campaigns in that way does actually mean that you feel male gamers are more important.  After 20 years, I admit I am getting tired of being an afterthought from the industry, and I've been playing Bioware games since BG.  I guess some things will never change.    This makes me sad.

[Beocat]

[quote]saruman31 wrote...

There is a big female community on these bioware forums. However, i am 100% sure that if they remove the romance/li subplots more than half of it will leave asap.[/quote]

[/quote]

Actually, women typically play more for the story and the challenge of the game.  I have plenty of favorite games where romance is not involved at all.  Many of my favorite survival/horror games do not involve romance, for instance.

[Felene]

Vegielamb wrote...

Actually... the average Japanese game is very feminine by western standards (including this one). They tend to emphasize:

1. relationships are important
2. melodrama

I think this is why so many girl games seem to love a lot of Japanese games.

You mean those Japanese dating/adventure game with only one female protagonist and a bunch of romance-able male NPC to choose from? Those are no where near Bioware game level.

It's "de facto" most Bioware gamers are male, "consider" the statics they just release on ME2.

Most female gamer only play Facebook application/web page game or those cute looking online games.

"Yeah, turn out I was wrong, according to Nielsen most female gamer play Solitary."

Seriously, how many female gamer owns a Xbox360/PS3? Bioware is currently pushing for console sells so in another words, female gamers are still a minority in these platforms.

Besides, just because most out-spoken communities are female doesn't mean female gamers are their targeting consumer group.

Still, I have little hope on Bioware's marketing department. (Hint:"This is the new ****!!!!!!)

Doubt they will ever be appealing towards female gamers.

Modifié par Felene, 16 septembre 2010 - 01:23 .

[Vegielamb]

Felene wrote...

Vegielamb wrote...

Actually... the average Japanese game is very feminine by western standards (including this one). They tend to emphasize:

1. relationships are important
2. melodrama

I think this is why so many girl games seem to love a lot of Japanese games.

You mean those Japanese dating/adventure game with only one female protagonist and a bunch of romance-able male NPC to choose from? Those are no where near Bioware game level.

It's true most Bioware gamers are male, consider the statics they just release on ME2.

Most female gamer only play Facebook application/web page game or those cute looking online games.

Seriously, how many female gamer owns a Xbox360/PS3? Bioware is currently pushing for console sells so in another words, female gamers are still a minority in these platforms.

Besides, just because most out-spoken communities are female doesn't mean female gamers are their targeting consumer group.

Still, I have little hope on Bioware's marketing department. (Hint:"This is the new ****!!!!!!)

Doubt they will ever be appealing towards female gamers.

No, I mean most Japanese games period (blast you r key for betraying me!). Japanese cultural values resonate very strongly with western women.

Modifié par Vegielamb, 15 septembre 2010 - 11:25 .