32 réponses à ce sujet

[ussnorway]

Lets see;

Dwarf noble kills his own brother...

City Elf gets two chances to let a rapist go free...

The mage can let a blood mage run free &...

The human noble can free the guy that murdered their own mum and dad.



However Loghain is not a good Warden because he would sacrifice ANY ONE... (not just himself) to get the job done?

[Nerevar-as]

My idea with HN Origin was more than Howe took the chance of knowing Loghain´s plans to put Cailan in line to get away with killing the Couslands rather than Loghain having the original idea.

[Lumikki]

Can't answer all of them, because never played city Elf or human noble.

Our team killed that Dwarf what killed his brothers, because I did not like idea to someone become King, who did kill his own relatives to get power. Not good quality on King.

The Mage can let a blood mage run free? What Blood mage? If You mean Jowan. I did not support him or give his freedom, I send him back to Circle of Magic. You know as well what that means. Also no blood magic on any of my mages.

Yeah, I actually live by the moralty code what game provides by story. Sure, game allows to ignore these for players freedom of choises without any consequences, what isn't good at all for story. How ever, not all players care about story, for them it's just pixels and game.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 août 2010 - 02:24 .

[hurtington]

i love lamp x3 wrote...

1) Maybe the PC just respects Riordan's recommendation because he has been a Warden for umm.. a few weeks?

the story up to that point took between 1 and 2 years, according to bioware. just sayin

i havent read the calling yet, so i can't say if he's any better in that. but he's not cool in the stolen throne. he makes ***** kill ******* for no real reason. he left a very important part out.. and for what? so his idea of justice would be served? because he thinks his version of justice is the only one that exists? 

and then of course maric.. he was an idiot. he didn't know anyting about that chick, and even when she was like how can you love me when you don't know anything about me? and he's like "shhhh it doesn't matter all that matters is you're a pretty little elf and i want to bang you. but i'll be gentle, i know how the ladies cry when i'm gentle" 

but i digress

loghain is sympathetic only in regard to his parents and his part in the war against orlais, which he still had sour feelings over. based on the communications and meetings between cailin and the empress of orlais, loghain had the new orlais all wrong and sacrificed cailin and all of the grey wardens because of past grudges--he couldn't think objectively. maybe he thought blaming it on the wardens who, to his knowledge, were all dead, was just a political move to not upset everyone. honorable? not in the least. but it is understandable. until he finds out there are 2 wardens that survived. in order to continue his charade he has to get rid of them before people figure out what he's up to. maybe he decided to enslave the elves because of katriel. carrying out your own grudges is not honorable, it's as selfish as it gets. again, he can't think objectively. loghain is not honorable. he is trapped in his own little world and thinks he knows everything.

I played though origins.  Mostly focused on main quest.  I never read the novels.  

Nothing in game/cut scenes really explained why Loghain was doing this.  I was waiting for the "omg, he's working with the dark spawn" or something like that, but that moment never came.  When it came to the landsmeet I killed him myself.

I killed him because A) he corward out at Ostenger he blamed it on the GWs C) he was trying to kill/assert the GWs D) he was working with the man that killed my mother/father. E) had shady bussiness (elf slavery, etc) and F) seemed like a general ahole.

At no time did I ever say "oh, it's just a misunderstanding" or "he's trying to do good, just has a differant way about it, etc".

I killed him and Howe and enjoyed it.

Modifié par hurtington, 29 août 2010 - 08:18 .

[Gervaise]

I think the designers intended that whether or not you take the option to spare Loghain is based on your character’s race and aspirations. I have played through several times now but the latest was the first time as a human male noble. As a result almost as soon as it starts being suggested Alistair should be made king, my guy is questioning the logic because whilst Alistair is the illegitimate son of Maric, my boy is the legitimate son of the second most important family in Ferelden and over time demonstrates he is a damned site better leader than Alistair. In fact Alistair makes it quite clear he likes being led. So when the opportunity arises to negotiate with Alora he takes up the option of marriage to him. In their initial discussions she sounds genuinely sorry for what happened to his family and says his mother was a good friend. She also seems to have been genuinely fond of her husband but nevertheless asks that if there is anyway to spare her father’s life in spite of all he has done. 
 
Following this conversation I went back later and was given the dialogue option to ask about Loghain’s character. So far as I can recall this is the only time this was given so I guess it is linked to the fact that I have pursued the marriage option with my character.    In this conversation Alora gives a very plausible evaluation of what is driving her father. As a result my character starts to give serious consideration to sparing his life, which is why he accepts his surrender after defeating him in combat. Then Roiden, a senior Grey Warden, suggests conscripting him and offers sound reasons for doing so, whilst Alistair reveals himself to still be a petulant immature individual who is willing to disregard the advice of a warden who knew Duncan personally and probably many of those who died as well, and declares he now wants to be king so he can enact personal revenge.   My character had previously told Alistair he intended supporting Alora so now has no guilt in going through with his intention and nominating himself along with her. However, he does insist on sparing Alistair’s life.
 
After the Landsmeet he has a good chat with Loghain and soon builds up his personal rating with him through these conversations without in any way compromising his own integrity. He begins to feel that Alora was right in her evaluation of her father that he was blinded by his own prejudices and absolute conviction he was doing the right thing.   The fact is he was mentally unstable and wrapped up in his own perception of the world. The reason why he would now be loyal to my character is that basically my actions had challenged that blinkered view.   Loghain thought my character would be no match for him in combat: he was. He thought he would make Alistair a puppet king: he didn’t.   He thought he was the only person who could unite Ferelden behind him: my character proved otherwise.   He thought my family were sucking up to Orlais (because that is the justification Arl Howe used to me so would certainly be what he used to persuade Loghain): I showed by my own actions that this was not true.    Loghain does genuinely care for his country and so now his perception is that my character and his daughter in charge is the way forward.
 
Then when it is revealed about how the archdemon will be killed, I have another chat with him (which one is not allowed to do with Alistair) and he immediately offers to give his life if anything happens to Roiden. Clearly if he was after power then he need only step back and let my character take the fall.   The clincher for me was when I went back to him with Morrigan’s offer in order to save his life and he actually begs me not to make him do it. He is happy to die for his country and essentially for me too. A contrast with Alistair who never raised any serious objection to giving her a child and was willing to take her vow at face value after all his previously voiced opinions about her.   Loghain is a deeply flawed individual but not irredeemably so.

[asaiasai]

Protest bump



http://social.biowar...1/index/4676160

[eucatastrophe]

now I realize that he really is just a bastard. Loghain thinks he knows
everything and doesn't seem to understand the concepts of compassion or
compromise.

His hubris coupled with his shortsightedness is his downfall.

I don't hate him, but he's not a very likeable or wise character. Furthermore, he also has very few redeeming feature s when faced with the magnitude of his flaws. That definitely does not make him a villain, or bad guy in any way. Although that is a testament of how well-written and voiced-acted he is.

He's a man who's missed out on some sorely-needed crucial lessons in life, and ones that he ends up learning too late.

Modifié par eucatastrophe, 05 septembre 2010 - 06:36 .

[yeshwa]

Zeveran talks about the grey wardens dying talking about sacrificing himself for your character as their sidekick.