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[implodinggoat]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

JJ Long wrote...
You just make assumptions simply because you are upset because it is not free and because you felt the reunion with Liara did not fit with your ideals of what it should have been like.

Your anger is based on assumptions and has no ground to stand on at the moment.

I do not make assumptions because I'm upset. I make assumptions based on the evidence and attitudes presented. I have quite a bit of ground to stand on.

And to all the weirdoes who are trying to twist my argument into a stance of "They should have delayed ME2 7 months"... No. Just no.

That is not my argument. My argument is that they should not make the in-game content horrible just to try and lure you into spending more money on DLC to fix said horrible content.

I agree, Liara's presence in ME2 is abhorent.  With Liara, its like they couldn't come up with a legitimate reason for
her not to join your team so they just manufactured one that they knew
would help them sell DLC.

Honestly the connection between her and the Shadowbroker seems manufactured and totally out of character; but even worse the game presents you with a character you care about who is obviously being destroyed by her (out of left field) obsession with the Shadowbroker and then gives you no way whatsoever to resolve that situation and that's BS.   If you're going to present a problem in an RPG then you have to give the player a means of resolving it in some way, otherwise you're just screwing with them.  

With Ashley or Kaiden its all right since you have one memorable encounter and then they dissappear to leave you curious as to what's going to happen next.  But; with Liara you run into her, see that she's on the path to ruin, run around hacking terminals for her, then get no resolution and leave her to be destroyed by her obsession.  And its not like she runs off and you have no means of tracking her down either.  She's just sitting there at her desk mocking your powerlessness to do anything about it.  People don't play games to feel powerless, they get enough of that **** in real life.

Frankly, even though I'm a fan of Liara's character, I would have prefferred that she hadn't even appeared in ME2 to her having the bizarre, out of character, and irritating cameo she wound up with.  Maybe this DLC will change my mind; but considering the act of butchery that was committed on her character in ME2, it's got a lot of work to do.

[Kroesis-]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
The lie of the continueing LIs?

Kroesis- wrote...

My Femsheps relationship with Kaiden continued through ME2. True there was only one meeting which simply allowed me to continue it or abandon it, but it still gives the player the opportunity to continue it.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Halo Quea wrote...

Then there would be no reason to call it an "addition"  then.   A location away from the Normandy isn't an addition, it's just a location. 

A new location is still an addition... I'm assuming they will let you actually return to this location once the mission is done, unlike all those other rail missions that you never see again.

That's an addition, even if it's one room with a cot upon which you can "continue Liara's romance", it's an addition.

[Funker Shepard]

Kroesis- wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

uzivatel wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

uzivatel wrote...

It could/should have been in the main game, its overpriced, PS3 is getting it for free.

Why
do people keep saying this?  If they charge $60 for the PS3 version
when the 360/PC version will be down to $25-30, then they most certainly
are NOT getting it for free.

Even then they are getting
more Mass Effect for their money ... not to mention most of us kind of
already have the game and many of us paid more than 25-30..

This. I paid 70 dollares por my ME2.
So,
the argument of "They will charge $60 for the PS3 version so it's not
free" is quite dumb actually. It will be an old game for us, not for
them. For the PS3 it will be brand new.

Those
buying ME2 on PC or Xbox for the first time at the same time ME2 for PS3
is released will be getting it either a lot cheaper without DLC or the
same cost with DLC if a new version is released for PC and Xbox that
includes the DLC. Add then the cost of the DLC if required and they'd
probably be about the same price.

Yeah, I can't believe the logic for some people. They get something a year later, so they should pay more for it? Because it's 'new' for them? Again, more like the opposite, the PS3ers should get a bargain, because they haven't had the option to buy the game earlier, unlike we did.

implodinggoat wrote...

Boss.  Really looking forward to this one.

On a side note, anybody else think it looks a lot like Liara is a squadmate in this pic?  I mention it for two reasons...

A:  The obvious fact that it looks like a shot of a 3 person squad and...
B: 
More intriguingly, she has an M-5 Phalanx pistol on her hip. Which is
very owierd if she's not a squadmate since only squadmates are ever seen
wielding more than one weapon and even wierder since she's wielding a
weapon which is added through the Firepower pack DLC and presumably
wouldn't be a weapon the Bioware team would have her equipped with by
default since the player wouldn't necessarily have the file for it
downloaded.

Well, that's a Shuriken and a Phalanx, but we don't really know more, do we? I mean, we had the screens in the initial batch show us Shepard, Garrus, Tali and Liara at the same time, which is currently curbing my enthusiasm a bit. Still, Liara squaddie with new advanced training for completing the mission would make ol' funker a happy camper.

IIRC Wilson has a Phalanx if you have Firepower, and the standard cannon if you don't. So not conclusive.

Modifié par Funker Shepard, 23 août 2010 - 07:53 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Kroesis- wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
The lie of the continueing LIs?

Kroesis- wrote...

My Femsheps relationship with Kaiden continued through ME2. True there was only one meeting which simply allowed me to continue it or abandon it, but it still gives the player the opportunity to continue it.

The same can not be said of Liara. At least Ash and Kai acknowledge the romance and send you an email allowing you to feel confident in its future.

Liara kinda kisses you once and then it's nothing but silence and ignoring. That's not a continuation.

[BattleMageMarian]

thanks Bioware! can't wait, looks great!

[casedawgz]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
The lie of the continueing LIs?

Kroesis- wrote...

My Femsheps relationship with Kaiden continued through ME2. True there was only one meeting which simply allowed me to continue it or abandon it, but it still gives the player the opportunity to continue it.

The same can not be said of Liara. At least Ash and Kai acknowledge the romance and send you an email allowing you to feel confident in its future.

Liara kinda kisses you once and then it's nothing but silence and ignoring. That's not a continuation.

It's because she's totally into that drell.

[swirlwind]

I'm a bit torn over this whole thing. On one hand, Mystranna has a point. It doesn't look very good if you think that the romance content was cut from the game just to sell it to the fans as additional content later on. On the other hand, there is no real evidence that proves this is what happened. I for one can't remember the devs promising to continue ME1 romances in ME2, but I do remember Casey stating that they would continue in ME3. Then again, I may have simply missed those specific dev comments. In any case, postponing the continuation of ME1 romances to ME3 was never a good idea IMO, but then again, that's not something I get to decide. I don't make these games, I just love them.



At this point I know for a fact that I will buy the Liara DLC when it comes out. I'm emotionally invested in her romance and I want to see where the Shadow Broker story will take us. Despite this, I think it's important to let the devs know that while I'm sure most of the die-hard fans (such as myself) appreciate additional ME content, we also dislike feeling that the content is actually more important to us than it is to them.

[Kroesis-]

Halo Quea wrote...
Then there would be no reason to call it an "addition"  then.   A location away from the Normandy isn't an addition, it's just a location. 

Well the post did mention two specific locations, Illium and the Shadow Broker's lair then stated about the addition, so unless it was worded wrong it does seem to suggest its a terminal or something similar, but that doesn't mean for definite that it would be located on the Normandy, it could be added to a hub world.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Kroesis- wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
The lie of the continueing LIs?

Kroesis- wrote...

My Femsheps relationship with Kaiden continued through ME2. True there was only one meeting which simply allowed me to continue it or abandon it, but it still gives the player the opportunity to continue it.

Looks like you can quote real well. I have another definition of a continuing romance. Like most people it involves personal contact. A single talk or an e-mail does not cut it.

[Yakko77]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...
What really caught my attention was that this DLC will add the Shadow Broker Intel Center.  I assume this will be an expanded location on board the Normandy.    THAT is all the proof any of us need for knowing if Liara will be a keeper on the squad  Who ELSE would run that station but Liara?


So I'm pretty satisfied and have no further concerns about this content.

The center is probably the Broker's base, and Liara will probably stay there and become the "new Broker".

That seems likely. 

My two biggest questions now are, what role or functon does this "intel center" have and is this misson pre or post SM?  I'll find out in 2 weeks so I'm fine with that not being spoiled or anything.  I'll just be happily curious until its release.

[omnitremere]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

JJ Long wrote...
You just make assumptions simply because you are upset because it is not free and because you felt the reunion with Liara did not fit with your ideals of what it should have been like.

Your anger is based on assumptions and has no ground to stand on at the moment.

I do not make assumptions because I'm upset. I make assumptions based on the evidence and attitudes presented. I have quite a bit of ground to stand on.

And to all the weirdoes who are trying to twist my argument into a stance of "They should have delayed ME2 7 months"... No. Just no.

That is not my argument. My argument is that they should not make the in-game content horrible just to try and lure you into spending more money on DLC to fix said horrible content.

I'm angry about it like you but  I don't agree with your reasoning for why they did this.  I don't think they purposefully tried to make it terrible.  I think they purposefully tried to make it appeal to people who hadn't played the first game.  That's really what the lack of original romance development come down to right? If you haven't played the first game these people mean nothing to you.  So if you've just joined EA, have a huge ad blitz that wasn't available for the first game, and you're expecting a huge increase of people playing this who didn't play the first game, do you really want to spend a bunch of time developing relationships that half of the market won't know about? No.  So you half ass the original relationships and focus on the stuff that will attract more of your new audience.  Streamlined RPG elements, improved shooter mechanics, sharper visuals etc. etc.  And then you release the true romance content as a DLC which will probably be ignored by people who didn't play ME1 and gobbled up by everyone else.  It agree that's it pretty underhanded but I don't take it as them purposefully putting out an inferior product.  I just think they had different priorities than you or I.

[DIrishB]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...
A LOT of people making assumptions in this thread.  "Why did you withold content and make us pay for it now" is another argument with almost no basis in fact.

Yes, Liara had a few sound files left in the game.  That in no way means that this part of the game was even close to being finished, if it was even in production at all.

Not just the audio files, the files that specifically say "Liara DLC" or whatever. What else could it mean? Obviously Liara DLC was in the works before ME2 was released, and the romance status with Liara in ME2 is non-existent. Seriously, what else could it mean? They knew this DLC was coming out, and there's really no chance that this DLC was designed because fans were upset about ME2's content. ME2's romance content with Liara was, again, non-existent except for the awkward kiss upon entering the room. There's no way the fans would have been satisfied with that and BioWare knew it.

It seems pretty obvious to me that this whole thing was withheld on purpose, maybe even to make them look like heroes or give the illusion that they "listen to their fans". If I developed a disease and its antidote at the same time, delivered the disease to the population, and then turned around and tried to profit off the cure, would you all greet me as a savior? I'd hope not.

I hate to say it Mystranna, but 90% of your posts are dripping with a very noticeable sense of entitlement. 

They're a business, and made no secret that ME2 was a game they were going to focus on DLC quite seriously with.  Its not surprising in any way Bioware would want to leave the Liara romance angle as a plot-line addressed in a future DLC, especially given the obvious fact of already having other available love interests in the new crew; and the EVEN MORE obvious reasoning that she couldn't be a part of the crew in ME2 so that she'd be guaranteed to survive for ME3 so she can be a playable, romanceable crew member in ME3.

So, please, stop acting like this is a crime against humanity.  A $5 - $10 DLC every month or so isn't ridiculous, so I don't understand why you're acting like it is.

You paid your $60 for the game, and you got the complete game for the $60.  If you feel your gameplay experience wasn't complete in some way because it lacked the Liara romance, then buy this DLC.  If you're just going to remain stubborn and not, then look to get your Liara romance fulfilled in ME3.

Seriously, I don't understand why you insist on playing the victim in the vast majority of your posts.

[Frraksurred]

ForceMuffin wrote...

I don't think that she'll be a member of the squad. There is no more room on the Normandy for here, unless they put her in the captains cabin =D

Not exactly.  You forget ME1 had three teammates in the Normandy's Cargo Hold alone (Garrus, Wrex and Ash)... a floor that has not even been unlocked for free exploration on the Normandy 2 yet (apart from it's breif playable stint towards the end).

That said, I do not think Liara will be an addable squad member during ME2 (apart from her DLC mission).  I believe she will end up taking the Shadow Broker's place and become your intel provider during ME3.

[BigGuy28]

Nice to see that it looks like it will have a lot of content and that's the only reason I'll be getting it. Far as Liara is concerned, I know it won't be an option but I'd love for a chance to put a gun to her head and pull the trigger or kick her out the airlock.

[scmadsen]

It sure took long enough for this to come out. I just hope they did it right, and don't screw it up too badly. I really hope the romance isn't ruined, and that Liara comes back to the Normandy at the end, to stay with Shepard. (As in, moving into the captain's cabin.)

[casedawgz]

Frraksurred wrote...

ForceMuffin wrote...

I don't think that she'll be a member of the squad. There is no more room on the Normandy for here, unless they put her in the captains cabin =D

Not exactly.  You forget ME1 had three teammates in the Normandy's Cargo Hold alone (Garrus, Wrex and Ash)... a floor that has not even been unlocked for free exploration on the Normandy 2 yet (apart from it's breif playable stint towards the end).

That said, I do not think Liara will be an addable squad member during ME2 (apart from her DLC mission).  I believe she will end up taking the Shadow Broker's place and become your intel provider during ME3.

Nobody sits in that barracks room anyway, other than the two chatting crewmen. The only time anyone ever goes in there is if its Samara diving out of the way of a speeding come-on.

[Malevolence65]

Since they didn't mention anything about Liara being a squad member, I'm guessing she isn't. They probably would have put that in as a selling point.

[ForceMuffin]

Frraksurred wrote...

ForceMuffin wrote...

I don't think that she'll be a member of the squad. There is no more room on the Normandy for here, unless they put her in the captains cabin =D

Not exactly.  You forget ME1 had three teammates in the Normandy's Cargo Hold alone (Garrus, Wrex and Ash)... a floor that has not even been unlocked for free exploration on the Normandy 2 yet (apart from it's breif playable stint towards the end).

That said, I do not think Liara will be an addable squad member during ME2 (apart from her DLC mission).  I believe she will end up taking the Shadow Broker's place and become your intel provider during ME3.

Hmmm... you have a point there =) I totally forgot about the cargo hold in ME1 =)

[LJScribes]

I remember them saying that after the date was announced we wouldn't have to wait long. 2 weeks is almost forever.....

[Mystranna Kelteel]

DIrishB wrote...
I hate to say it Mystranna, but 90% of your posts are dripping with a very noticeable sense of entitlement. 

They're a business, and made no secret that ME2 was a game they were going to focus on DLC quite seriously with.  Its not surprising in any way Bioware would want to leave the Liara romance angle as a plot-line addressed in a future DLC, especially given the obvious fact of already having other available love interests in the new crew; and the EVEN MORE obvious reasoning that she couldn't be a part of the crew in ME2 so that she'd be guaranteed to survive for ME3 so she can be a playable, romanceable crew member in ME3.

So, please, stop acting like this is a crime against humanity.  A $5 - $10 DLC every month or so isn't ridiculous, so I don't understand why you're acting like it is.

You paid your $60 for the game, and you got the complete game for the $60.  If you feel your gameplay experience wasn't complete in some way because it lacked the Liara romance, then buy this DLC.  If you're just going to remain stubborn and not, then look to get your Liara romance fulfilled in ME3.

Seriously, I don't understand why you insist on playing the victim in the vast majority of your posts.

I like the hyperbole. It's nice to know you don't understand what's going on here. I'm not a victim. I'm merely an observer.

[casedawgz]

Malevolence65 wrote...

Since they didn't mention anything about Liara being a squad member, I'm guessing she isn't. They probably would have put that in as a selling point.

They did say that there was something awesome that they would never elaborate on pre-release.

[Yakko77]

BigGuy28 wrote...

Nice to see that it looks like it will have a lot of content and that's the only reason I'll be getting it. Far as Liara is concerned, I know it won't be an option but I'd love for a chance to put a gun to her head and pull the trigger or kick her out the airlock.

Wow!!!!