65 réponses à ce sujet

[BioWareStore Jedi]

Hi Everyone,

Based on the your responses, thank you, we're decided to release mini-lithograph packs that will contain 4 smaller unsigned lithographs. Printed with the same paper and qualtiy as the currently lithographs. I can't send out the details yet, but I can tell you they you'll all be very excited with the first four Lithographs, including one VERY hard to get lithograph.

J

[ilikeicehockey]

Good to hear. Might end up picking some up. Only qualm I have is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of differentiation b/w the limited and regular. Only difference is size and signature. I would've liked to see either a different paper or printing style used. I agree with the poster below that it might devalue the limited ones more. Makes me feel a bit cheated for paying throught the roof for a citadel when a mini size one may appear for a lot cheaper

Modifié par ilikeicehockey, 23 août 2010 - 11:20 .

[Hellhawx]

Personally, I didn't like the idea since I felt (even though they are unsigned and not numbered) it devalued the limitedness (not a word) of the actual art. However, no one else seems to mind so I never posted anything. These went into production really fast though.

I probably would have bought minis from the start though since they would be easier and cheaper to frame and hang up. Oh well, I'll be sticking to collecting.

It sounds like a Citadel is in the pack based on your words. Of course, I'd consider the Normandy to be the rarest with how fast it sold. Heck Citadel was available for a few months on the original BioWare Store and a few months on the EA Store (you had to type mass effect into the search bar to find it though).

Anyhoo, this will make a lot of people happy.

Modifié par Hellhawx, 23 août 2010 - 10:56 .

[SIim Charles]

I am guessing he is referring to Saren/Illium in his post. I like the idea, I don't see it devaluing the regular size ones at all, rather I think the presence of "minis" is going to make the full-size even more sought after. This may be a poor example, but the fact classic books have been reprinted a billion times for cheaper prices makes the first editions all the more sought after. People get a taste of the art for cheap, then, if they fall in love with it, want the real thing.

[Tocquevillain]

ilikeicehockey wrote...

Good to hear. Might end up picking some up. Only qualm I have is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of differentiation b/w the limited and regular. Only difference is size and signature. I would've liked to see either a different paper or printing style used. I agree with the poster below that it might devalue the limited ones more. Makes me feel a bit cheated for paying throught the roof for a citadel when a mini size one may appear for a lot cheaper

Yes, well, that's your fault isn't it? Bioware isn't responsible for you paying hundreds on eBay for lithographs. I'll buy all the minis as long as they're a respectable size.

[ilikeicehockey]

Tocquevillain wrote...

ilikeicehockey wrote...

Good to hear. Might end up picking some up. Only qualm I have is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of differentiation b/w the limited and regular. Only difference is size and signature. I would've liked to see either a different paper or printing style used. I agree with the poster below that it might devalue the limited ones more. Makes me feel a bit cheated for paying throught the roof for a citadel when a mini size one may appear for a lot cheaper

Yes, well, that's your fault isn't it? Bioware isn't responsible for you paying hundreds on eBay for lithographs. I'll buy all the minis as long as they're a respectable size.

Neither should Bioware be responsible for making minis for the people that missed out on the originals. It's your fault that you missed the sale of the originals. It can go both ways too my friend. On the other side though it's good to see that they're giving people another way to get any cool lithos they might've missed.

I'd also like to propose that we don't make minis of all the lithos, just the pack of 4 and maybe 1 or 2 more after that to let some of the original owners maintain some exclusivity

Modifié par ilikeicehockey, 24 août 2010 - 02:14 .

[archive-th]

^^



Yea I'm with icehockey.



Can't say I'm a big fan of these minis. Granted they would be easier to frame, but I've spend good money on these lithos, (So far approx $500-600AUD, and soon I'll be giving out $700AUD to complete my collection) and not just for a signature, but also for the pictures themselves.



So if you do mini's, don't do all of them. Especially not the ones most of us have had to give weeks of wages for. Such as TIM, Citadel, Illium etc.

[Dan Dark]

You know... I'm thinking we need a third party opinion on this. Example being, I feel inclined to argue with the previous two posts, but that may be because I missed out originally; as such, my opinion is biased in favor of this idea, whereas their opinions are biased against it. We could use someone who can look at this issue from a completely unbiased standpoint.

[Crjans]

SIim Charles wrote...

I am guessing he is referring to Saren/Illium in his post. I like the idea, I don't see it devaluing the regular size ones at all, rather I think the presence of "minis" is going to make the full-size even more sought after. This may be a poor example, but the fact classic books have been reprinted a billion times for cheaper prices makes the first editions all the more sought after. People get a taste of the art for cheap, then, if they fall in love with it, want the real thing.

I was thinking Illium as well based on Jedi's comments I doubt you will see a mini of saren as all the new items are ME2 and Saren litho was a ME1 item well over a year ago maybe even 2? not sure when it's release date actually was.  and not as many people actually seem to seek Saren or they aren't as vocal about it on these boards as they are about Illium

[Tennyochan]

omg *squeeee*

Illuim, tell me its Illium!!!!



ah, the bioware store is taking all my moneys... ;.;

[SIim Charles]

I still can't see what the big deal is. I have also spent a lot trying to complete my collection and, regardless of the minis being released, I am still going to try and get Garrus/IM/Afterlife to complete my collection. The minis are nice, and I am sure I will buy all of them, but it doesn't change my desire to get the real thing.

I am a former baseball card buyer/seller/trader and from time to time companies would release reprints of classic card series from the 40s-70s and I can tell you that I made a ton of money by buying original classic cards prior to the release of the reprints, then selling them afterward. People who had never seen the beautiful originals fell in love with the reprints and had to get their hands on the real thing. I even read in Beckett magazine that the release of classic reprints can cause the prices of originals to increase by 70% or more.

Just think about it, does the mass-reprinting of classic paintings make those paintings less valuable? No, quite the opposite, more people come to recognize the art and more will try and seek the original.

Modifié par SIim Charles, 24 août 2010 - 12:56 .

[hist200066]

Put me in the camp of those against these mini lithos. As somehow who would benefit from the mini lithos, I've missed out on a few of the lithographs, I still feel that putting these out would be wrong. From day one we've heard the BioWare team say that once the lithographs were gone they were gone. The art was exclusive and not to be re-printed again.

Chris Priestly wrote...

Correct. Since they are signed and
numbered, once they are gone, they are gone. We will have more
lithographs in the future, but not of the art or images already
sold. Sorry.



[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Selling these mini lithos would greatly devalue the other lithographs. No offense to the artists but I think most will agree that the main draw of the lithographs is the art and not the fact that they are signed and numbered. Putting out a smaller unsigned version of the art on the same style paper is unacceptable. When I purchased my lithographs I trusted BioWare's claim that the lithographs were part of an exclusive limited run and not to be re-printed anywhere else (not posters, lobby cards, postcards, t-shirts, key chains etc.) Please keep the art exclusive to the lithographs that have already been sold.

[havoc373]

hist200066 wrote...

Put me in the camp of those against these mini lithos. As somehow who would benefit from the mini lithos, I've missed out on a few of the lithographs, I still feel that putting these out would be wrong. From day one we've heard the BioWare team say that once the lithographs were gone they were gone. The art was exclusive and not to be re-printed again.

Chris Priestly wrote...

Correct. Since they are signed and
numbered, once they are gone, they are gone. We will have more
lithographs in the future, but not of the art or images already
sold. Sorry.



[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Selling these mini lithos would greatly devalue the other lithographs. No offense to the artists but I think most will agree that the main draw of the lithographs is the art and not the fact that they are signed and numbered. Putting out a smaller unsigned version of the art on the same style paper is unacceptable. When I purchased my lithographs I trusted BioWare's claim that the lithographs were part of an exclusive limited run and not to be re-printed anywhere else (not posters, lobby cards, postcards, t-shirts, key chains etc.) Please keep the art exclusive to the lithographs that have already been sold.

most of those lithographs are also in the artbooks that came with the CE or the art thats in the CE of the strategy guide... true its not the same as a lithograph. but your arguement is invalid if you dont want that same art to be printed in any other form when the CE artbook was out before the first lithographs were being sold... the only art thus far that has been exclusive to a lithograph has been the normandy...

personaly i welcome the smaller litho's, i'd rather not pay through the nose to get a afterlife, jack or wards. besides i am kinda late to the party to get them all. this way i will only have to put in the effort and money for the big litho's i really want. i mean normandy was a no brainer for me. but... i dont really care about the wards, korlus, and afterlife. 
i'd still want them but i dont want to put in the effort to track them down (even though korlus is still being sold in the bioware store) and throw down an insane amount of money for a big lithograph that i dont really like all that much but would still want because i am a completionist.

and i wouldnt mind if this devalued the larger lithos a little bit. just means i have to pay less if i want an out of print large lithograph... all i care about is getting the artwork and what its worth to me as a fan and CG artist.

Modifié par havoc373, 24 août 2010 - 02:18 .

[SIim Charles]

Anyone saying it is going to hurt the value is guessing without any basis. I can't think of any situation (especially with artwork) where reprints hurt the value of originals. Just because you would settle for a smaller reprint, does not mean a huge number of collectors would as well. If someone can give me a single example of a situation where reprints hurt the value of originals, I am all ears. I don't think you will.

[Ultor84]

I'm sorry, I can't help but laugh at the people who see the release of a set of clearly smaller, unsigned, un-numbered re-prints as a slight against them and their existing collection of clearly superior originals. If you got into these solely for the purposes of having them appreciate in value instead of appreciating them as art, I've really got no sympathy.



Besides, between the expanding the ME2 customer base to PS3 owners, and the eventual release of a Mass Effect movie, you won't be short on people to gauge, so don't worry your greedy little hearts. This is like arguing that prints sold from museums have somehow how destroyed the value of Van Gogh's or Picasso's originals, or the reprints of Salvador Dali that he personally signed.



Or perhaps The Heavy said it best,

[stardazzled]

Okay, here's my 10 cents: I didn't gave my opinion on minis when Jed initially announced them because I had to think about it.

Same quality paper is... somewhat disturbing. I see the heavy paper save for original art and for a format/size the art was intended to be. This may be because of its value because in Germany, it's still mainly used for very official documents (issued by the authorities) and for - mostly expensive -paintings by professional artists. It's expensive paper and thus only the final artwork usually is created on it. (I don't know the situation anywhere else... but that was the situation here, last time I checked.)

So, the Store is doing a reprint to high and constant high demand. But a reprint usually isn't on the same paper... to show it's only a reprint and not the initial release.
I will probably buy them anyways, because I love some art so much that I want a copy for my office and not only for the bedroom.

No detailed word to Ultor. It would take far too long to write a possible explanation (already deleted stuff twice because it was too long). Just keep in mind that Van Gogh, Picasso, Dali etc. usually only draw a single piece. A single unique piece completely created by their own hands.

edit: for emphazising something

Modifié par stardazzled, 26 août 2010 - 10:04 .

[ilikeicehockey]

Ultor84 wrote...

I'm sorry, I can't help but laugh at the people who see the release of a set of clearly smaller, unsigned, un-numbered re-prints as a slight against them and their existing collection of clearly superior originals. If you got into these solely for the purposes of having them appreciate in value instead of appreciating them as art, I've really got no sympathy.

Problem is that it is way too similar to the original lithos. Only difference is a smaller size and the lack of a signature/number. Personally those aspects don't matter much to me compared to the art. As you said, it's the art that matters right? Well if you're talking strictly about the art there will only be ONE difference, size.  The style of printing and materials used is the exact same. Please tell me with regards to the art how the original lithos be CLEARLY SUPERIOR if it's made exactly the same?
Using your famous artist example that would be like Van Gogh painting Starry Night, then painting it again exactly the same all over again except on a smaller canvas and minus his signature.

Also I really don't appreciate your 'go cry some more' picture. When you and other members missed out on the originals and came here looking to buy/complain did we put you down and say  'go cry some more' because YOU missed out on the original sale? No we didn't. We supported you guys and tried to find ways for the people who missed out to get these lithos. So please show us some respect.

Ultor84 wrote...
 We're talking about two totally different tiers of product here for
collectors and consumers, regardless of what they are printed on.  Like I said earlier, its the difference between an authentic, original Dali print(worth thousands), and Art Museum gift shop poster(worth 14.99 plus tax).  

How are the lithos in totally different tiers? They're printed the same way and on the same paper. Also, how did you draw the conclusion that the limited ones are aimed for collectors? I'm sure when Bioware first came out with the lithos they were aimed at the general consumer not the collector. They're only $30 each which is a very reasonable price for a lithograph of that size,quality and  with limited stock. Both products are for consumers and will be priced for consumers.

Now to your gift shop point. The gift shop poster is not printed on the same paper as the original nor is it printed with the same quality as the original print. Those are 2 major differentiating factors

Modifié par ilikeicehockey, 24 août 2010 - 06:25 .

[Ultor84]

stardazzled wrote...


No detailed word to Ultor. It would take far too long to write a possible explanation (already deleted stuff twice because it was too long). Just keep in mind that Van Gogh, Picasso, Dali etc. usually only draw a single piece. A single unique piece completely created by their own hands.

No one here has that original.  Thats part of my point.  

And only one?  Depends on the artist.  Dali created and sold his own prints(even his own lithographs, reportedly), thats why I chose him specifically, because of the correlation to this and now.  Yes, there are Orignals, but he did personally sell prints of his own work as well as licensed others(which opened the door for the existence of so many fakes), as do numerous artists.  In this case, the Orignals, are likely either framed in Bioware's offices, or stored in their archives.  If someone here can claim to have any of the Orignal art work, I'd love to see it.

The original circulation of these prints were indeed handled and signed by the artists, and nothing will ever change that.  This will not be the case for the smaller, un-numbered, unsigned, re-reprints, which is why it's borderline absurd to think that the mini series will destroy the value of the original print line.  We're talking about two totally different tiers of product here for collectors and consumers, regardless of what they are printed on.  Like I said earlier, its the difference between an authentic, original Dali print(worth thousands), and Art Museum gift shop poster(worth 14.99 plus tax).  

[stardazzled]

They're not the originals, but the closest that we can get. Signed is similar to hand-painted in the era of digital creation. - For the opportunity to be present at the creation of the original art... well, that's one of the few things, I'd probably really spend all of my money for plus my dear video game collection (worth 20 grands) plus my jewelry.

[DukeOfNukes]

Anyone who's ever collected ANYTHING can tell you that value doesn't go down because of re-prints. The people that would be "collectors"...spending hundreds of dollars on them, aren't going to all of the sudden decide that a sub-par copy is going to be worth their time. If I have a print of Monet's waterlilies...yeah, it costs a lot...but does the original cost less because of it?

I actually have a question though...you're talking about releasing them as 13x19...are they going to be exactly the same scaled down, or is the white border going to be reduced? The current ones are 18x24, while the image is roughly 12.5x18...so is the image going to be 9x14.25?

For the record...I got all 5 of mine straight from BioWare.

Afterlife
Citadel
Collectors
Pride Demon
Arch Demon

Ice Hockey...it sounds to me like you would be just as happy having the smaller prints. If such is the case, maybe you should sell yours, and if you're so worried about them going down in value, then I would get to selling them before these mini-lithos hit the market.

Frankly, I wouldn't count on ANY of the lithos being worth much in 20 years.

Modifié par DukeOfNukes, 24 août 2010 - 06:46 .

[Ultor84]

ilikeicehockey wrote...

Ultor84 wrote...

Problem is that it is way too similar to the original lithos. Only difference is a smaller size and the lack of a signature/number. Personally those aspects don't matter much to me compared to the art. As you said, it's the art that matters right? Well if you're talking strictly about the art there will only be ONE difference, size.  The style of printing and materials used is the exact same. Please tell me with regards to the art how the original lithos be CLEARLY SUPERIOR if it's made exactly the same?
Using your famous artist example that would be like Van Gogh painting Starry Night, then painting it again exactly the same all over again except on a smaller canvas and minus his signature.

Also I really don't appreciate your 'go cry some more' picture. When you and other members missed out on the originals and came here looking to buy/complain did we put you down and say  'go cry some more' because YOU missed out on the original sale? No we didn't. We supported you guys and tried to find ways for the people who missed out to get these lithos. So please show us some respect.

Here's where your complaint falls apart.  If it is about art appreciation, which I really am beginning to doubt that is the case with you because of your hostility, how does other people having a set of mini lithos decrease your appreciation of what you already have?  If your enjoyment of them is only derived in large part by knowing that other people don't have them, that doesn't say very positive things about you.  

And they aren't the exact same, so stop it with the Stary night comparison.  If being signed and numbered by the artist, and being of a larger size doesn't strike you as being superior, you are being unreasonable.  If these things are worth anything some day, it  won't be because of what kind of paper they are printed on.  

In all fairness, you haven't even seen them yet, and neither have I.  Let's all take a step back and wait to see what the final product looks like.  Maybe the bordering will be ghastly.  

Lastly, when I was late to the party, I spent hard bank to buy them up from the secondary market, of my own free choice.  Probably close to $500-600 across 4 pieces.  For other people, thats not a reasonable option, so I don't begrudge Bioware for catering to that market. 
But then again, I'm not an elitist..  

Oh, and go ahead and pick away at minutia not aimed at you.  Its cute.  Numbered/Signed prints, not aimed at collectors?  Right.  You grasp at those straws.  

Modifié par Ultor84, 24 août 2010 - 06:40 .

[Ultor84]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

I actually have a question though...you're talking about releasing them as 13x19...are they going to be exactly the same scaled down, or is the white border going to be reduced? The current ones are 18x24, while the image is roughly 12.5x18...so is the image going to be 9x14.25?

That is an excellent question.  I've wondered it myself, actually.  I second this.  

[Ultor84]

stardazzled wrote...

They're not the originals, but the closest that we can get. Signed is similar to hand-painted in the era of digital creation. - For the opportunity to be present at the creation of the original art... well, that's one of the few things, I'd probably really spend all of my money for plus my dear video game collection (worth 20 grands) plus my jewelry.

You and me both, stardazzled,(well, sans jewelry collection anyway).  

You know what would be great?  Maybe as games become more mainstream, some day we'll see a museum of game art.  Not the end product, but of all the work of all the talented artists who toil behind the scenes, often as only a name on the credits roll.  Maybe next to that science fiction museum I keep saying needs to exist.  

Modifié par Ultor84, 24 août 2010 - 06:51 .

[ilikeicehockey]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Ice Hockey...it sounds to me like you would be just as happy having the smaller prints. If such is the case, maybe you should sell yours, and if you're so worried about them going down in value, then I would get to selling them before these mini-lithos hit the market.

Frankly, I wouldn't count on ANY of the lithos being worth much in 20 years.

 I don't care about resale value because i won't resell them. I'll probably keep them till I'm 65 or something. My problem is that I don't see enough of a differentiation b/w the minis and the originals. I'll also probably end up picking some mini's if they have one which I'm missing.

Ultor84 wrote...

Here's where your complaint
falls apart.  If it is about art appreciation, which I really am
beginning to doubt that is the case with you because of your hostility,
how does other people having a set of mini lithos decrease your
appreciation of what you already have?  If your enjoyment of them is
only derived in large part by knowing that other people don't have them,
that doesn't say very positive things about you.  

And they
aren't the exact same, so stop it with the Stary night comparison.  If
being signed and numbered by the artist, and being of a larger size
doesn't strike you as being superior, you are being unreasonable.  If
these things are worth anything some day, it  won't be because of what
kind of paper they are printed on.  

In all fairness, you haven't
even seen them yet, and neither have I.  Let's all take a step back and
wait to see what the final product looks like.  Maybe the bordering
will be ghastly.  

Lastly, when I was late to the party, I spent
hard bank to buy them up from the secondary market, of my own free
choice.  Probably close to $500-600 across 4 pieces.  For other people,
thats not a reasonable option, so I don't begrudge Bioware for catering
to that market. 
But then again, I'm not an elitist..  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Oh, and go ahead and pick away at minutia not aimed at you.  Its cute.  Numbered/Signed prints, not aimed at collectors?  Right.  You grasp at those straws.  

How have I been hostile? I have not put down other members or disrespected them. You really shouldn't be talking about me being hostile when you yourself made a more hostile post a few posts up. Your last section in the quote above could be counted as being hostile as well.

Also, how are they not basically exactly the same? I think you also missed the part where they're printed the exact same way and not just printed on the same paper. 

The funny thing is that this is all spun off of a videogame.

Anyways, I really don't want to drag this on anymore on the boards so if you want to continue debating about this we can do it via PM. The decision/format of these minis is Jed's to make and I'm done giving my 2 cents

Modifié par ilikeicehockey, 24 août 2010 - 07:23 .

[havoc373]

purely from my view as a artist. the smaller ones have a lower resolution. the amount of detail you can see on the smaller images is less than that of the larger images. we know all of these lithographs have been created digitaly using a wacom cintiq 21UX display tablet at a resolution that would allow them to plaster a 3 story building without loss of quality. None of these lithographs are hand painted then scanned and then mass produced for lithograph selling. so unless they use a smaller printer/printing press that can produce the same resolution as the large scale prints but on a smaller scale (which they dont cause thats not how this process/ Technology works) the bigger ones are clearly superior to the smaller ones. They may look the same, but they are not. They are not signed, they are not numbered, the original artist has not had these prints in his own hands, and the image on them is of a lower quality. It may still look good, but someone who apriciates art will know the difference between the two and will point to the larger one as the clearly superior print.
for example look at the citadel lithograph. there are so many small details on that litho that will be lost when its reduced in size, at the very least they will be harder to see. regardless of what paper it is printed on.

again as i said i'm very late to this party and it is unlikely that i will be able to obtain a citadel, minuteman, omega, without paying through the nose for them. and even though these smaller lithographs are of lower quality i welcome them cause this way i will be able to get the art that i want, without going bankrupt. and i wont go bankrupt by wanting to get art that i dont really like all that much because i want the full set.

Modifié par havoc373, 24 août 2010 - 07:44 .