40 réponses à ce sujet

[Last Darkness]

Hmmm what are the ways to reduce defense, Armor and physical resistance?

[Random70]

Last Darkness wrote...

Berserk on twohanded warriors is completly useless...

Not at all. True, a 2H doesn't get as much mileage out of it as say, a DW, but OTOH, its a cheaper, more damaging, less penalizing alternative to Powerful Swings. And considering the amount of damage this build takes, the health regen is nice as well.

And all sustained damage adders, like SoC, Blood Frenzy, Powerful Swings and, yes, Berserk, work just fine on talents. Only runes, poisons, and Flame / Frost weapons do not.

[termokanden]

Agreed. It's not useless. It's not particularly good either. But then the other specializations are not exactly fantastic.

Modifié par termokanden, 26 août 2010 - 10:35 .

[Last Darkness]

Random70 wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

Berserk on twohanded warriors is completly useless...

Not at all. True, a 2H doesn't get as much mileage out of it as say, a DW, but OTOH, its a cheaper, more damaging, less penalizing alternative to Powerful Swings. And considering the amount of damage this build takes, the health regen is nice as well.

And all sustained damage adders, like SoC, Blood Frenzy, Powerful Swings and, yes, Berserk, work just fine on talents. Only runes, poisons, and Flame / Frost weapons do not.

I could swear you, Bean, and Soteria proved that +damage dosnt really add to skill damage. Also I chose my words poorly. I should have said Berserker is not as viable and beneficial as the other three class specs are for a Two Hander Warrior.  Berserk+Final Blow not the best choice to suppliment a twohander when weighed against Warcry+Rally, Cleanse Area+Holy Smite, Devour+Frightening Appearance+Aura of Pain(Reaver tricks you into thinking its not a Tank spec lol) its certainly has some theme and roleplaying value. Mechanics wise it is often ignored, or vigoriusly complained about.

[beancounter501]

^+ Damage will add to talent usuage. This also applies to weapons that have +damage on them. That is because +Damage modifies your character, Runes/Poisons/Enchantments modify the Weapon. This is why the +Dmg from the Rose of Thorns will add to both your weapons.



Perhaps you got confused because the +Damage does not get multipled in a critical hit?



But I would agree that Berserker ranks really low for a Two Hand Warrior.

[liolio]

ezrafetch wrote...

2H warriors struggle really early due to lack of talents available for spamming and the lack of stamina which would allow for talent spamming. I still consider 2H the best tank overall simply because Indomitable means no stuns, no knockdowns. 2H Sweep is great CC, and with Reaver/Champion/Templar (any two specs works) you have access to two other great CC skills, which means you can pretty much control the battlefield.

Personally I went with Templar/Reaver since I built mine to tank with 100% Spell Resist: Knight-Commander's Plate, Spellward, Dweomer Runes in my CGM. Also, running as few sustainables as possible seems ideal as it maximizes talent spamming, which ruled out Champion for me.

Thanks to some of your earlier posts post I also read this guide about "two-handed tanks".
So I also started a two handed character
I'm happy I did!

I'm a newby playing on 360, it's almost my first play through (tho I did some dw rogue test play) so I play in normal which people here will define as easy.
Anyway the build is so far way more effective and resilient than the DW rogue I tried.

I don't have installed any DLC so far so play bare DA:O still I 've searched for what Awakening brings on the table.
It looks like it could make the build even better (obvious but I'll explain).
What look great about it is that you need even less talents in the two handed tree to be effective at your job as basically "sweeping strike" looks to be pretty much the same as "two-handed sweep" while being a first tiers talent.
That frees quiet some talents to be invest elsewhere (or allowing more flexibility in the order you take your talents)
If I understand the philosophy behing the build with Awakening, 5 two-handed talents could be enough for the build and they can be gain by using only... 5 talents
IE: "pommel strike" / "indomitable" / "sunder arms" / "mighty blow" /  "sweeping strike"
(Actually I feel like "stunning blows could also come handy).

That let more talents to be invested in warrior talents and specializations.

Modifié par liolio, 27 août 2010 - 11:53 .

[termokanden]

The big problem with 2h warriors in my eyes is that there are too many similar single-target abilities and only one AoE. There are a lot of monsters where your moves are complete overkill. For example, there are some monsters I can ALMOST kill with Mighty Blow and then it takes one hit of anything to kill them after that. But two normal swings would kill them also. A bit pointless using abilities then.

However, I am still sometimes amazed at how ridiculously fun it is to target the toughest monster there and just burst DPS them to shreds. They don't get a chance to react either. Stunned, stunned, stunned.

I have only tried a 2h warrior briefly in Awakening so far, but as far as I can tell, the new AoE attacks are ridiculously powerful.

I'm near the end of my 2h playthrough now and very much looking forward to importing this character into Awakening. I could see Grievous Insult + Massacre being a lot of fun.

What look great about it is that you need even less talents in the two handed tree to be effective at your job as basically "sweeping strike" looks to be pretty much the same as "two-handed sweep" while being a first tiers talent.

It's not the same. Two-Handed Sweep is a 360 degree AoE attack that amounts to one normal attack on everyone in range. Sweeping Strike hits enemies in a cone in front of you.

Having one doesn't mean you don't need the others. Because of cooldowns, having several AoE moves is brilliant for a 2h warrior.

(Actually I feel like "stunning blows could also come handy).

It doesn't only come in handy, it's one of the powerful and unique abilities that 2h warriors have. Apparently you have a 50% chance on any attack to stun your enemy. That's huge. Now try it with Two-Handed Sweep.

And by the way, I find Sunder Armor a good talent to take also. Actually, just fill up your 2h talents, you should have enough points.

Modifié par termokanden, 27 août 2010 - 12:26 .

[liolio]

termokanden interesting insight

I guess I'll feel my two-handed tree what I wanted to enlighten (and failed ) is the fact (still holding) that two-hander become "effective" very fast, faster than other warrior tanks.

EDIT

The big problem with 2h warriors in my eyes is that there are too many similar single-target abilities and only one AoE.

I don't think I'll care much about that as I really intend to play my build as a tank not a damage dealer (high dex).

Modifié par liolio, 27 août 2010 - 12:48 .

[liolio]

I've question the bonus granted by frightening appearance on threatened/taunt is passive or the bonus is active for a given duration after you casted it?

[termokanden]

Frightening Appearence is two separate things. It's a passive buff to Taunt, and it's also an ability you can use to fear one target. From what I've read, it doesn't actually buff Threaten at all, but that might have been fixed.

I don't think I'll care much about that as I really intend to play my build as a tank not a damage dealer (high dex).

I have to be honest with you: then you shouldn't use 2-handed weapons. They really do require massive strength to be worth it, and the knockdown effects are harder to resist when you have high strength. If you base it on dex, it will simply not work as well.

If you want a very durable dex-based warrior, you could go dual-wield with two daggers and just put minimal points into strength to wear good armor (probably 38 with buffs). This build makes much better use of your high dex.

Modifié par termokanden, 27 août 2010 - 01:22 .

[Lord Gremlin]

I don't know why would you expect 2-h warrior to suck in the first place. It's hard in the beginning indeed, but later in game it's a killing machine, even more effective than DW sometimes because of crowd control and huge variety of moves reducing boss effectiveness.



I usually invest in strength and dexterity, mostly in strength.

[termokanden]

Well from the descriptions here it seems that you are only recommended to dual-wield, and I've read quite a few times that it's simply so much better.



I made this thread to share my experience that indeed it is a crowd-controlling killing machine if you do it right, and that it doesn't really need to compete with dual-wielding from a pure DPS standpoint to be a good choice. It's probably been said before but hey, I'm a bit enthusiastic about it now

[liolio]

termokanden wrote...

Frightening Appearence is two separate things. It's a passive buff to Taunt, and it's also an ability you can use to fear one target. From what I've read, it doesn't actually buff Threaten at all, but that might have been fixed.

Thanks

I don't think I'll care much about that as I really intend to play my build as a tank not a damage dealer (high dex).

I have to be honest with you: then you shouldn't use 2-handed weapons. They really do require massive strength to be worth it, and the knockdown effects are harder to resist when you have high strength. If you base it on dex, it will simply not work as well.

If you want a very durable dex-based warrior, you could go dual-wield with two daggers and just put minimal points into strength to wear good armor (probably 38 with buffs). This build makes much better use of your high dex.

Hum interesting,  right now I mostly keep Dex and strength equal (not really relevant as I'm only lvl 6) but I plan to do so for a while as I'm not in a rush for talents with higher requirement. But clearly I'll keep that in mind if latter on my talents are resisted too much.

But it kind of sucks it says that resistance are made against the attacking attribute (which should be 0.5 per point in strength AND dex) only strength is taken in account... I didn't know about that but wiki seems to confirm.
That's weird because that would make risposte a bit useless for rogue too, no? (supposedly they have even lower strength).

[termokanden]

Apparently for a rogue it will be based off your cunning. I haven't been able to find out how Riposte works for a warrior though.

It makes sense that 2h skills are based on strength, and that rogue skills are not.

Another thing to consider is that 2h weapons have strength modifiers up to 1.25, meaning strength is that much better for wielding them.

Modifié par termokanden, 27 août 2010 - 02:00 .

[liolio]

termokanden wrote...

Apparently for a rogue it will be based off your cunning. I haven't been able to find out how Riposte works for a warrior though.

It makes sense that 2h skills are based on strength, and that rogue skills are not.

Another thing to consider is that 2h weapons have strength modifiers up to 1.25, meaning strength is that much better for wielding them.

That makes sense, I guess keeping Strength and dex even should be a safer bet for me than relentless dex pumping.


Edit

Side question, which race did ou choose?

Modifié par liolio, 27 août 2010 - 02:46 .

[termokanden]

Dwarf (noble). The one thing dwarves have that is slightly better is the 10% magic resistance, but really it's no big deal.



Dwarf nobles also have an easier time earning money by selling to Gorim when he's in Denerim. Quite useful.