162 réponses à ce sujet

[amanasleep]

Jeff W wrote...
 

10 Sunfire
11 SI
13 Spell Shield
15 Animate Dead (alt: Lower Resistance)
28 Breach (alt: Lower Resistance)

Good list, though I would definitely take Lower Resistance at 15 and do without Animate Dead and rely on Swords and Planetars.

I would never consider doing without Sunfire regardless of party size and composition. Maybe it's tricky to use in a party, but when you have Sunfire you don't need a party!

Spell Shield and Breach are unnecessary.  I might take Sunfire, Shadow Door, SI, Lower Resistance, Animate Dead.  Don't take Improved Invis at L4 to make room for Farsight.
 

12 True Sight
13 Pierce Magic (alt: Death Spell if I am taking Lower Resistance)
15 Contingency
21 PfMW
30 Chain Lightning

Because I always take Lower Resistance at Level 5, I'd take Death Fog instead of Pierce Magic here. Death Fog has a lot more utility than Death Spell imo. It still kills summons, but it also disrupts casters and can damage liches.

Mislead.
 

[Jeff W]

I don't think there is room for Shadow Door or Mislead. Taking those over Imp Inv is putting the cart before the horse imo as they are competing with more powerful spells and don't bring much more to the table. Plus you can't buff early summons like Kithix/Efreeti with those and ring of air control is an imperfect substitute in numerous respects. I like Minor Sequencer, but it's not the end of the world to dial down your sequencer uses and rely on the plentiful scrolls for when you need it.

Spell Shield is more important in tactical mods or no reload games where the extra protection can save your bacon against enemy mages. Also, in any mod that doesn't fix spell shield, it doubles as a hard counter to beholders.

[amanasleep]

Jeff W wrote...

I don't think there is room for Shadow Door or Mislead. Taking those over Imp Inv is putting the cart before the horse imo as they are competing with more powerful spells and don't bring much more to the table. Plus you can't buff early summons like Kithix/Efreeti with those and ring of air control is an imperfect substitute in numerous respects. I like Minor Sequencer, but it's not the end of the world to dial down your sequencer uses and rely on the plentiful scrolls for when you need it.

Shadow Door is not a must have, but I find the casting time becomes more and more desirable as the game goes on.  Under some circumstances I would take II and SD.  The point with SD and Mislead is that they are not competing with more powerful spells.  Even if you insist on taking True Sight, Contingency, PfMW first, Mislead is a much better pick than Chain Lightning or Pierce Magic, which are super weak in Solo play.  Death Fog is OK, but Mislead is game breaking.   Mislead is not comparable to II or SD or any other kind of Invis, rather it is like vanilla Staff of the Magi.

I definitely take your point about getting II early to survive and buff summons.  I would either take II and Mislead early or SD and Mislead later.

Spell Shield is more important in tactical mods or no reload games where the extra protection can save your bacon against enemy mages. Also, in any mod that doesn't fix spell shield, it doubles as a hard counter to beholders.

Unfixed Spell Shield is definitely worth having vs. Beholders, but against mages Mislead is even better.  Cast it and leave the decoy out of combat and you can't be attacked.  True Sight can't get rid of it, etc.  Seriously, Mislead is one of the most powerful spells in the game for a Solo player.

[Jeff W]

Unfixed Spell Shield is definitely worth having vs. Beholders, but against mages Mislead is even better.  Cast it and leave the decoy out of combat and you can't be attacked.  True Sight can't get rid of it, etc.  Seriously, Mislead is one of the most powerful spells in the game for a Solo player.

I don't like to leave the decoy off screen because it feels like an exploit to me, although it's hard to know where to draw the line. If you have no such qualms, then it is indeed very strong against anything that can't see invis. 

re: Shadow Door

Are you playing without robe of vecna? Kinda renders the casting time issue moot. Not to mention ring of air control is instant in a pinch, I think.

So, for a pure power sorcerer maybe I'd go something like this:

L1-Blindness, Magic Missile, Protection from Evil, Spook, Shield
L2-Mirror Image, Web, Knock and 2 of Blur, Melf's and Glitterdust
L3-Skull Trap, Melf's Minute Meteors, Haste, Remove Magic 
L4-Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility, Farsight and 1-2 of Greater Malison, Minor Sequencer, Polymorph Self or Teleport Field,
L5-Sunfire, Spell Immunity, Lower Resistance and 1-2 of Animate Dead, Breach or Spell Shield
L6-True Sight, Mislead, Protection from Magical Weapons, 1 of Contingency or Death Fog
L7-Project Image, Mordenkainen's Sword, Spell Sequencer, Limited Wish
L8-Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Spell Trigger, Simulacrum
L9-Chain Contingency and 2 of Spellstrike, Timestop, Wish
HLA-Summon Planetar, Improved Alacrity, Dragon's Breath

Notable Omissions/Late Picks:

L2 Resist Fear: Scrolls+Planetar
L3 Spell Thrust: Even in SCS II you can get by without it.
L5 Breach: Wand of Spell Striking
L6 Pierce Magic: Wand of Spell Striking
L6 Contingency: I confess, I feel like I get no mileage out of this spell.

Many powerful omitted spells like limited wish and shapechange can be scrollcast via clones. Rest of the picks come later in the game and are left up to reader's discretion. Most 9th level spells will go to CC, IA and Planetar, so the later picks aren't critical.

Most of my picks would be almost identical for a party game. Knock is really the only obvious drop. True Sight can be taken later or omitted. 

Modifié par Jeff W, 08 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[amanasleep]

Jeff W wrote...

Unfixed Spell Shield is definitely worth having vs. Beholders, but against mages Mislead is even better.  Cast it and leave the decoy out of combat and you can't be attacked.  True Sight can't get rid of it, etc.  Seriously, Mislead is one of the most powerful spells in the game for a Solo player.

I don't like to leave the decoy off screen because it feels like an exploit to me, although it's hard to know where to draw the line. If you have no such qualms, then it is indeed very strong against anything that can't see invis. 

No more of an exploit than scrollcasting IMO.  And it's strong even if you don't send the decoy off screen--there are many ways to keep it alive, like distracting the AI with other summons.  In any event you can recast it any time you feel like the Decoy might die, and if it does die you are still Improved Invis.

re: Shadow Door

Are you playing without robe of vecna? Kinda renders the casting time issue moot. Not to mention ring of air control is instant in a pinch, I think.

I play with the Robe moved to ToB, so you are correct that this changes the dynamic for SD vs. II.  I like to have more L4 flexibility, going with Stoneskin, Farsight, Polymorph Self, Telefield, Sequencer.

So, for a pure power sorcerer maybe I'd go something like this:

L1-Blindness, Magic Missile, Protection from Evil, Spook, Shield
L2-Mirror Image, Web, Knock and 2 of Blur, Melf's and Glitterdust
L3-Skull Trap, Melf's Minute Meteors, Haste, Remove Magic 
L4-Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility, Farsight and 1-2 of Greater Malison, Minor Sequencer, Polymorph Self or Teleport Field,
L5-Sunfire, Spell Immunity, Lower Resistance and 1-2 of Animate Dead, Breach or Spell Shield
L6-True Sight, Mislead, Protection from Magical Weapons, 1 of Contingency or Death Fog
L7-Project Image, Mordenkainen's Sword, Spell Sequencer, Limited Wish
L8-Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Spell Trigger, Simulacrum
L9-Chain Contingency and 2 of Spellstrike, Timestop, Wish
HLA-Summon Planetar, Improved Alacrity, Dragon's Breath

No arguments other than what we've already discussed.

Notable Omissions/Late Picks:

L2 Resist Fear: Scrolls+Planetar
L3 Spell Thrust: Even in SCS II you can get by without it.
L5 Breach: Wand of Spell Striking
L6 Pierce Magic: Wand of Spell Striking
L6 Contingency: I confess, I feel like I get no mileage out of this spell.

Contingency is not so terrific unless you have a specialist or non-power sorc build.  Most times you can insta-cast any protections you need, and you'd rather have the spell slot than another casting per day.

I get decent use out of GoI, particularly in SCS 2.  Protects against Confusion, Unholy Blight, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Skull Trap, and most importantly, MMM.

[amanasleep]

double post

Modifié par amanasleep, 08 avril 2011 - 12:51 .

[Jeff W]

amanasleep wrote...

Jeff W wrote...
L6-True Sight, Mislead, Protection from Magical Weapons, 1 of Contingency or Death Fog

Contingency is not so terrific unless you have a specialist or non-power sorc build.  Most times you can insta-cast any protections you need, and you'd rather have the spell slot than another casting per day.

I get decent use out of GoI, particularly in SCS 2.  Protects against Confusion, Unholy Blight, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Skull Trap, and most importantly, MMM.

Hmmm, GoI is interesting, though I generally don't seem to have problems with those particular spells. It does combo with web and telefield, though. FWIW, Remove Magic dispels MMM (as well as potion buffs) without fail even against higher level casters.

With a no scroll casting restriction, the picks are more interesting as you have Improved Haste in the mix at L6. There are a multitude of Imp Haste scrolls, though, so there's not much need to take it. Same with Death Fog if you're not keen on 3x death fog spell triggers. Scroll casting is broken.

Modifié par Jeff W, 08 avril 2011 - 03:48 .

[silenceall]

Jeff W wrote...

With a no scroll casting restriction, the picks are more interesting as you have Improved Haste in the mix at L6. There are a multitude of Imp Haste scrolls, though, so there's not much need to take it. Same with Death Fog if you're not keen on 3x death fog spell triggers. Scroll casting is broken.

I don't see why a solo sorcerer would ever take ImpHaste.  It doubles the attacks of one character or summon.  But all summons (except Planetar?) have only 1 APR, so haste (+1 APR) works just as well and affects the whole party.  What am I missing?

[silenceall]

I'm also curious what you use (items and spells) for a solo sorcerer against beholders if not Spell Shield.

[Jeff W]

silenceall wrote...

I'm also curious what you use (items and spells) for a solo sorcerer against beholders if not Spell Shield.

I did the unseeing eye quest in my last game with aerie, jan, sorcerer, but I pretty much soloed it. This was in SCS II where anti magic ray takes down spellshield, so if you're playing no reloads you don't ever want to be in line of sight with a beholder.

1. Farsight+Hordes of hasted mordenkainen swords and/or skeletal warriors 
2. Farsight+Project Image/Simulacrum AOE spells
3. Flesh Golem Manual. Flesh Golem is 100% magic resistant, but he won't last forever against their physical attacks (at least in SCS II, they're probably buffed).
4. Polymorph Self: Mustard Jelly for 100% MR. Use sequencers and contingencies to kill them.

Probably other ways, but those are easiest.

silenceall wrote...

I don't see why a solo sorcerer would ever take ImpHaste.  It doubles the attacks of one character or summon.  But all summons (except Planetar?) have only 1 APR, so haste (+1 APR) works just as well and affects the whole party.  What am I missing?

Planetar goes from 3 attacks to 6. Flesh Golem goes from 2->4. 

Modifié par Jeff W, 08 avril 2011 - 08:17 .

[Jeff W]

amanasleep wrote...

Shadow Door is not a must have, but I find the casting time becomes more and more desirable as the game goes on.  Under some circumstances I would take II and SD.  The point with SD and Mislead is that they are not competing with more powerful spells.  Even if you insist on taking True Sight, Contingency, PfMW first, Mislead is a much better pick than Chain Lightning or Pierce Magic, which are super weak in Solo play.  Death Fog is OK, but Mislead is game breaking.   Mislead is not comparable to II or SD or any other kind of Invis, rather it is like vanilla Staff of the Magi.

I must say that you're totally right and Improved Invisibility isn't necessary. It is more of a convenience choice, but it is possible to rely on the Ring of Air Control until level 12 as long as your careful.

Skipping II lets you take Polymorph Self early... the more I use this spell, the more I think it's indispensible. Mustard Jelly form is very powerful in conjunction with project image/simulacrum or sequencers/contingencies. 

[amanasleep]

Jeff W wrote...

amanasleep wrote...

Shadow Door is not a must have, but I find the casting time becomes more and more desirable as the game goes on.  Under some circumstances I would take II and SD.  The point with SD and Mislead is that they are not competing with more powerful spells.  Even if you insist on taking True Sight, Contingency, PfMW first, Mislead is a much better pick than Chain Lightning or Pierce Magic, which are super weak in Solo play.  Death Fog is OK, but Mislead is game breaking.   Mislead is not comparable to II or SD or any other kind of Invis, rather it is like vanilla Staff of the Magi.

I must say that you're totally right and Improved Invisibility isn't necessary. It is more of a convenience choice, but it is possible to rely on the Ring of Air Control until level 12 as long as your careful.

Skipping II lets you take Polymorph Self early... the more I use this spell, the more I think it's indispensible. Mustard Jelly form is very powerful in conjunction with project image/simulacrum or sequencers/contingencies. 

Polymorph Self is incredibly good.  As Alesia_BH has shown, you can create an entire melee sorcerer build around it. 

[Esajoram]

Commenting to original post, list is good, I'd change these maybe:
I'd take resist fire / cold / lightning + spirit shield and definitely incendiary cloud
also one of my personal favourites is death spell to get rid of most monsters that are not really worth casting at (& summons)

also dimension door is worth taking, it makes most wizards look like fools in the game

Generally I think sorceress wants to have time stop / improved alacrity + sunfire / skulltrap etc instant-cast damage-spells (and something with lower magic resistance ofc)

Modifié par Esajoram, 27 avril 2011 - 02:14 .