91 réponses à ce sujet

[Loerwyn]

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...
first off i hate diablo its just WoW with no end content pvp...

Wow. Just... Wow.

You do realise Diablo 1+2 came before WoW, right? So how can Diablo be like WoW if Diablo came first?

[Inhuman one]

Erhm.. Blizzard makes simple games and seems to have no other ambitions than profit, they destroy their own lore for WoW just to get more subscriptions. They seem uncapable of telling a decent story as well.



Its laughable to call them competition. Perhaps profit wise yes, but in terms of actually being a good developer, hell no.



Bioware does aim for profit too like any other company, but they try to tell the best stories as well and seem to be actually passionate about their games and do original things instead of just creating rip offs from Warhammer and call them warcraft and starcraft.

[eucatastrophe]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...
first off i hate diablo its just WoW with no end content pvp...

Wow. Just... Wow.

You do realise Diablo 1+2 came before WoW, right? So how can Diablo be like WoW if Diablo came first?

I felt myself losing IQ points reading that post X_X

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

TheMufflon wrote...

Blizzard > Bioware

This is what Blizzard's fanboys actually believe.

Uh huh, obvious statement is obvious. That is just like saying that all Bioware fanboys believe Bioware < Blizzard.

SFF19 wrote...

IMO, Blizzard and Bioware are fairly equal in terms of quality, though Bioware has an edge since they have more IPs.

Nope no way, Blizzard definately pump out a higher quality product. Blizzard games generally spend more time in development when compared to other gaming companies and it shows, however Bioware on the other hand I have often felt that the quality of their products was kind of poor, sure I enjoyed them but when it comes to polish I can see a lot of areas where there is a lot to be desired. I can understand that a game made by a smaller developer like CDProjekt's "The Witcher" is going to have a few flaws here and there but for a bigger company like Bioware there really isnt much excuse. Bioware would have to be the worst top tier developer in terms of quality control.

Inhuman one wrote...

Erhm.. Blizzard makes simple games and seems to have no other ambitions than profit, they destroy their own lore for WoW just to get more subscriptions. They seem uncapable of telling a decent story as well.

Its laughable to call them competition. Perhaps profit wise yes, but in terms of actually being a good developer, hell no.

Bioware does aim for profit too like any other company, but they try to tell the best stories as well and seem to be actually passionate about their games and do original things instead of just creating rip offs from Warhammer and call them warcraft and starcraft.

My god do you actually think about what your post contains or do you just mash your head on the keyboard, hope it forms a coherent sentence and hit the submit button? "Blizzard makes simple games and seems to have no other ambitions than profit"? Yes that must be why they keep their games in development for so long, I am sure the only reason they spent 7 years developing Starcraft 2 was just to maximise their profits.

But if any company is actually selling out I am afraid it would have to be Bioware, the amount of penny pinching (too cheap to animate horses for the Ostagar battle, lack of NPC variety, cant make a female model for the other species) the amount of rip off DLC that should have been in the original release of the game and the amount of time they are willing to spend on a game in production makes me wonder if Bioware actually cares about their games anymore and are just in it for the profits, but then I guess you fans will buy anything they produce and hear the same regurgitated story (Hero joins [insert kickass organization here] and saves the world from [insert evil badguy here]) so they might as well just slap a cowboy hat on Shepard and call it Mass Effect 3.

Dont get me wrong I do enjoy Bioware games but as the years roll on I just see their games getting worse and worse with every release, they jusy regurgitate the same story and characters and cut so many corners it is a wonder they even care anymore.

[eucatastrophe]

Inhuman one wrote...

Erhm.. Blizzard makes simple games and seems to have no other ambitions than profit, they destroy their own lore for WoW just to get more subscriptions. They seem uncapable of telling a decent story as well.

How exactly does Blizzard destroy their own lore?

What story of theirs did you so dislike?

[HoonDing]

Blizzard makes simple games? I don't know. WoW's gameplay, for instance, is far more complex than any BioWare game released after Baldur's Gate 2.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

eucatastrophe wrote...

Inhuman one wrote...

Erhm.. Blizzard makes simple games and seems to have no other ambitions than profit, they destroy their own lore for WoW just to get more subscriptions. They seem uncapable of telling a decent story as well.

How exactly does Blizzard destroy their own lore?

What story of theirs did you so dislike?

Well I must admit that the story in Wings of Liberty wasnt the greatest and their decision to try and make the Overmind look a little less evil was pretty silly. Also in trying to keep WoW fresh there are a few pretty silly concepts (Dranei crash land in their spaceship on Azeroth, WTF). I can see where he is comming from to a certain extent but that being said I still think that Blizzard is capable of telling a fairly good story and the story in Warcraft 3 I did really enjoy.

Modifié par Mr Mxyzptlk, 25 août 2010 - 09:45 .

[Mallissin]

virumor wrote...

Blizzard makes simple games? I don't know. WoW's gameplay, for instance, is far more complex than any BioWare game released after Baldur's Gate 2.

Complex actions require mastery. Mastery takes time. Blizzard gets paid monthly. Suckers play MMOs.

[eucatastrophe]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Well I must admit that the story in Wings of Liberty wasnt the greatest and their decision to try and make the Overmind look a little less evil was pretty silly. Also in trying to keep WoW fresh there are a few pretty silly concepts (Dranei crash land in their spaceship on Azeroth, WTF). I can see where he is comming from to a certain extent but that being said I still think that Blizzard is capable of telling a fairly good story and the story in Warcraft 3 I did really enjoy.

I don't play SC (though I did get in the SC2 beta! ) so I can't comment on your first point. From the feedback I've come across the forums though, people seem to be divided. People absolutely hate it, others love it, and some like the story but dislike the cliched ways in which it was told. 

WoW is an MMO and like any MMO, TV series, or book series, the story isn't meant to be static. It changes, evolves, moves forward. In retrospect, TBC was really cool although I can see why people were initially bothered by the retcon.

For the other guy - Addressing originality: Blizzard's target is a wide varety of people. For the people who read only comic books and watch only anime, WoW story is pretty fresh. For those of us who are more bookish and literature-forward, their stories are refreshing and light. The borrowed stories comfort us by being overhwlmingly familiar like an old friend or relative. We know what to expect, but that doesn't make us love it any less.

[Loerwyn]

eucatastrophe wrote...
I felt myself losing IQ points reading that post X_X

Mine or his?

[eucatastrophe]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

eucatastrophe wrote...
I felt myself losing IQ points reading that post X_X

Mine or his?

His of course <3

[BrokenBirthday0]

"Blizzard games generally spend more time in development when compared to other gaming companies and it shows"

The fact that Blizzard takes a long time to complete a game is not a valid argument for the quality of the games. My wife plays WoW and it seems that almost every other week something's wrong with the servers or they're doing maintenance.

"Yes that must be why they keep their games in development for so long, I am sure the only reason they spent 7 years developing Starcraft 2 was just to maximise their profits."

Again. Not a valid argument. Oh yes, Blizzard is greedy as ****. As soon as They make one game that makes a huge profit (WoW), they change the art for all the new games to imitate that one (StarCraft 2/Diablo 2). Seriously, have you seen the screens for Diablo 2? ****ing rainbows? Really?

Modifié par BrokenBirthday0, 25 août 2010 - 10:01 .

[eucatastrophe]

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...

The fact that Blizzard takes a long time to complete a game is not a valid argument for the quality of the games. My wife plays WoW and it seems that almost every other week something's wrong with the servers or they're doing maintenance.

What?

They have Maintenance every alternate Tuesday I believe. It's been that way since launch. They also have 15 minute server restarts every other Tuesday at 5:00 AM PST.

Patch days are rough, but they've become a lot better as time has gone by.

Again. Not a valid argument. Oh yes, Blizzard is greedy as ****. As soon as They make one game that makes a huge profit (WoW), they change the art for all the new games to imitate that one (StarCraft 2/Diablo 2). Seriously, have you seen the screens for Diablo 2? ****ing rainbows? Really?

An optical and meteorological phenomenon that causes a spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the Earth's atmosphere in MY game?!

BLASPHEMY!!

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

eucatastrophe wrote...

WoW is an MMO and like any MMO, TV series, or book series, the story isn't meant to be static. It changes, evolves, moves forward. In retrospect, TBC was really cool although I can see why people were initially bothered by the retcon.

I agree however I just felt that the Dranei were a little silly.

[BrokenBirthday0]

eucatastrophe wrote...

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...

The fact that Blizzard takes a long time to complete a game is not a valid argument for the quality of the games. My wife plays WoW and it seems that almost every other week something's wrong with the servers or they're doing maintenance.

What?

They have Maintenance every alternate Tuesday I believe. It's been that way since launch. They also have 15 minute server restarts every other Tuesday at 5:00 AM PST.

Patch days are rough, but they've become a lot better as time has gone by.

Again. Not a valid argument. Oh yes, Blizzard is greedy as ****. As soon as They make one game that makes a huge profit (WoW), they change the art for all the new games to imitate that one (StarCraft 2/Diablo 2). Seriously, have you seen the screens for Diablo 2? ****ing rainbows? Really?

An optical and meteorological phenomenon that causes a spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the Earth's atmosphere in MY game?!

BLASPHEMY!!

Of course it's blasphemy. Lol.
Seriously though, I don't think the WoW Cartoony graphics and light attitude goes well with the traditional Diablo feel. It's called DIABLO for ****'s sake.
I got a little pissed when I saw it.

[eucatastrophe]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...


I agree however I just felt that the Dranei were a little silly.

if it's got tentacles, it shouldn't be taken seriously

[eucatastrophe]

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...

Of course it's blasphemy. Lol.
Seriously though, I don't think the WoW Cartoony graphics and light attitude goes well with the traditional Diablo feel. It's called DIABLO for ****'s sake.
I got a little pissed when I saw it.

Well the game's not even in Alpha yet... did you see how SC2 looked in it's Alpha?
I'm sure the final D3 will look somewhat different.

If you saw the latest Gamescon vids, it's significantly eerier as well.

[BrokenBirthday0]

eucatastrophe wrote...

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...

Of course it's blasphemy. Lol.
Seriously though, I don't think the WoW Cartoony graphics and light attitude goes well with the traditional Diablo feel. It's called DIABLO for ****'s sake.
I got a little pissed when I saw it.

Well the game's not even in Alpha yet... did you see how SC2 looked in it's Alpha?
I'm sure the final D3 will look somewhat different.

If you saw the latest Gamescon vids, it's significantly eerier as well.

Thank you for letting me in on this. Maybe there's still hope then.
I still maintain that Bioware has higher standards for storytelling, which is usually my favorite aspect of games. Diablo's fun but Mass Effect's story blows anything Blizzard has out of the water

[Loerwyn]

BioWare built their reputation (from BG onwards) as being a story-based company. It's a major selling point for them. Blizzard sell games with good stories too, but it's a different situation. BioWare games react (in some degree) to your choices, which isn't something Blizzard have done with (example) World of Warcraft.

Could Blizzard bring choices into WoW? Yes, but they likely won't. One of the problems you tend to get with MMOs like WoW is that story has to take a back seat to gameplay and that gameplay will sometimes dictate what the story can/can't do and vice-versa. Warlocks in WoW are a great example - If you play a Warlock, the citizens of cities and so forth should fear you, but they don't. Yes, you can walk through a city with no ill reaction to your Felguard. That's not a realistic situation (i.e. realistic in regards to Azeroth), but it's one where the gameplay has had to get in the way.

I'd like to see what would happen if BioWare made an RTS game and whether they could retain the ability to make choices.

[eucatastrophe]

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...

eucatastrophe wrote...

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...

Of course it's blasphemy. Lol.
Seriously though, I don't think the WoW Cartoony graphics and light attitude goes well with the traditional Diablo feel. It's called DIABLO for ****'s sake.
I got a little pissed when I saw it.

Well the game's not even in Alpha yet... did you see how SC2 looked in it's Alpha?
I'm sure the final D3 will look somewhat different.

If you saw the latest Gamescon vids, it's significantly eerier as well.

Thank you for letting me in on this. Maybe there's still hope then.
I still maintain that Bioware has higher standards for storytelling, which is usually my favorite aspect of games. Diablo's fun but Mass Effect's story blows anything Blizzard has out of the water

Modifié par eucatastrophe, 25 août 2010 - 10:36 .

[BrokenBirthday0]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

BioWare built their reputation (from BG onwards) as being a story-based company. It's a major selling point for them. Blizzard sell games with good stories too, but it's a different situation. BioWare games react (in some degree) to your choices, which isn't something Blizzard have done with (example) World of Warcraft.
Could Blizzard bring choices into WoW? Yes, but they likely won't. One of the problems you tend to get with MMOs like WoW is that story has to take a back seat to gameplay and that gameplay will sometimes dictate what the story can/can't do and vice-versa. Warlocks in WoW are a great example - If you play a Warlock, the citizens of cities and so forth should fear you, but they don't. Yes, you can walk through a city with no ill reaction to your Felguard. That's not a realistic situation (i.e. realistic in regards to Azeroth), but it's one where the gameplay has had to get in the way.
I'd like to see what would happen if BioWare made an RTS game and whether they could retain the ability to make choices.

True, they both are geared towards certain audiences. Different audiences. The entire debate is a matter of opinion. Hence why I'm not getting all butt-hurt even if I am somewhat of a Bioware fanboy. lol.

[Loerwyn]

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...

True, they both are geared towards certain audiences. Different audiences. The entire debate is a matter of opinion

I agree. If I wanted a BioWare-esque game, I wouldn't go to Blizzard. I'd go to Obsidian, Bethesda (lolno, sorry), Radon Labs or I'd jump into a Point 'n' Click adventure like The Longest Journey. But at the same time, if I wanted a game similar to something from the Blizzard stable, I wouldn't go to BioWare.

I still think it's unfair to use WoW in this debate, though. It's a 5 (6?) year old MMO with a lot of changes over its lifespan so far. Many quest chains are now, in terms of story, obsolete. It doesn't make any sense that you can kill Anub'Arak in the Crusader Collesium and then go and kill him in Azjol'Nerub (for those not in the know, Azjol'Nerub happens before the Collesium in terms of chronology). Cataclysm is going to correct a lot of those problems, I suspect, and with the wider use of phasing I expect it'll be done very well, but give it another few years and you're going to see the problem surface again.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...

"Blizzard games generally spend more time in development when compared to other gaming companies and it shows"

The fact that Blizzard takes a long time to complete a game is not a valid argument for the quality of the games. My wife plays WoW and it seems that almost every other week something's wrong with the servers or they're doing maintenance.

You are right, the amount of time spent on development for game is not a valid argument for the quality of a game (look at Limbo of the Lost), however the quality of Starcraft 2 does speak for itself and a lot of that comes down to the devs spending the extra time to get things right.

Also as far as MMOs go WoW did show a lot more polish than most other MMOs, as eucatastrophy has already pointed out the fact that the servers are down every Tuesday is not proof of WoW being a poor game but more proof as to Blizzard's superior quality control at work (ok every MMO does this but still), regular maintenance is a key part of offering a superior service as it allows the devs to nip issues in the bud before they become serious problems. Think of it like a car, you usually dont wait for it to break down before you see the mechanic, usually you would get it serviced regularly every couple of kilometers to stop issues before they become a problem.

BrokenBirthday0 wrote...


"Yes that must be why they keep their games in development for so long, I am sure the only reason they spent 7 years developing Starcraft 2 was just to maximise their profits."

Again. Not a valid argument. Oh yes, Blizzard is greedy as ****. As soon as They make one game that makes a huge profit (WoW), they change the art for all the new games to imitate that one (StarCraft 2/Diablo 2). Seriously, have you seen the screens for Diablo 2? ****ing rainbows? Really?

I must admit I havent been keeping a close eye on Diablo 3 but when I did see screens I diddnt see much of a problem, however I would like to see these rainbows and if you could post a link it would be much appreciated. As for Starcraft 2 I dont think I should have to explain why the units cant be uber detailed and why slightly cartoony graphics are a better option.

But regardless you cant expect everything in Diablo 3 is going to be drab depressing and ugly, even in a world of monsters one can find beauty in the most unlikely of places, it is these symbols that give the hero hope in a world that is falling apart around him.