97 réponses à ce sujet

[Merced652]

Yes, Dragon Age needs to suffer the tasslehoff syndrome by means of sandal.

[Arthur Cousland]

Yrkoon wrote...

Arthur Cousland wrote...

I guess Bioware has to base one of the future DA titles during the first blight so we can see how things really went down. Also, since the first blight lasted over 200 years, that's how much time must be covered in the game, not a mere 10 years, and over 200 hours of gameplay.

And there'd be Griffons in such a game too!

I approve.

Just imagine the title of the game:  Dragon Age 3: There are griffons in it!

[Yrkoon]

redBadger14 wrote...

@Yrkoon: You are assuming that someone covered in blood had to have engaged in a melee battle. Let me ask: If someone cut up Darkspawn, spilling blood everywhere, and Sandal was simply caught up in the middle but otherwise uninvolved, don't you think the laws of physics and gravity would result in him being covered in the blood of the slain Darkspawn?

Nope.  Not in DA:O physics.  Try it yourself and see.  Take  one of your characters  and equip  them with a bow, then send  them to the front lines with your melee guys, then kill every enemy that surrounds you.  Your archer will not accumulate a single drop of blood on her face or clothing when the battle is done  (same with mages who use staves)  The gore effect  that we  see on Sandal can only occur in DA:O when   the  subject is directly engaged in melee.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 janvier 2011 - 05:48 .

[redBadger14]

@Yrkoon: I'm not talking actual gameplay.



What happened with Sandal in Fort Drakon is unknown to anyone. It's possible he killed the Darkspawn that surround him. It's possible somebody else protected him. It's possible that he may have been innocently standing around while a soldier eliminated all the Darkspawn and didn't take notice of Sandal.



Point is, the event occurred off-screen, unknown to the Warden/Player. It's not something tangible as gameplay where, yes, the only way blood spatter appears on your character(s) is if he/she engaged in melee combat.



What happened with Sandal was not actual gameplay, thus, any number of things could have happened. And the good thing about it is that BioWare wants us to draw our own conclusions. Whether those conclusions are right or wrong however we cannot know for sure.

[Yrkoon]

redBadger14 wrote...

@Yrkoon: I'm not talking actual gameplay.

Then you're putting up an irrelevant argument.

We were discussing  a scene  that the player comes across  in game.

Using real-world physics to  explain   an  in-game occurance is a  flawed argument.  Especially when the in-game physics consistantly differ from those of the real world.


But while we're on the subject of Physics, do you have an explanation for why there   aren't any  HUMAN  remains -not a single trace-  in that room?  Is it your contention that the guards  that did engage the darkspawn and slaughtered them all, simply vanished, bodies and  everything?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 janvier 2011 - 06:48 .

[redBadger14]

It's not an irrelevant argument.



Gameplay itself can be differentiated from certain things that occur in the game, such as what happens to Sandal. Sure, DAO is a game and obviously realism was not a main factor in the development of it.



We don't see Sandal have any melee combat with the dead Darkspawn that surround him, so who's to say for a fact that Sandal did indeed kill them with melee? Or who's to say Sandal even killed them at all?



This thread is mere speculation, ideas brought up by us to try to explain something we don't fully understand. We don't fully understand what happened to Sandal in Fort Drakon.



Now, obviously we can concur that, gameplay-wise, as in the combat the Player's party participates in, blood spatter is a result of melee attacks and kills. Whatever happened between Sandal and the Darkspawn that lie dead before him did not occur in a gameplay moment. Therefore, the blood could have gotten on him by some other means.



Again, I'm not saying you're wrong. But to adamantly shoot down someone else's speculation (of which all of this should be friendly speculation where no one is right or wrong), is in itself an irrelevant argument. So far, everybody's speculation into Sandal has made sense, with factual information or circumstantial evidence backing it up.



It's the difference between believing, in your opinion, that someone else's speculation is wrong versus saying that, for a fact, that person is wrong. So far, no one here has been wrong. Everything thus far has been valid speculation. Until a BioWare Dev steps in and tells us otherwise!

[Yrkoon]

redBadger14 wrote...

It's not an irrelevant argument.

Gameplay itself can be differentiated from certain things that occur in the game, such as what happens to Sandal.

You are assuming that  what happens to Sandal  constitutes a "different  in game occurance".   On  What, exactly are you basing this assumption?

 

redBadger14 wrote...

Sure, DAO is a game and obviously realism was not a main factor in the development of it.

We don't see Sandal have any melee combat with the dead Darkspawn that surround him, so who's to say for a fact that Sandal did indeed kill them with melee?

No one can.  And no one has.   We're all, as you say, speculating.   What we are engaging in here is something called evidence gathering, and 'deductive reasoning'.   Sorta like what police do when they come across a crime scene.   In this game,  We see 2 things in that room when  we enter it,  and we DON'T see 2 more.

2 things we  see
1) tons upon tons of  darkspawn bodies.  We know they've been  just recently killed because the blood is still flowing and their bodies have not decomposed.
2) we see Sandal *literally* standing over one of the bodies  (an Ogre, in fact) in the center of the carnage.  His body and face are covered in blood  just like every other post fight  instance in this game  where a combatant engages in melee and slays his opponent

^additionally, we can  ask Sandal:  "Sandal!  What happened here?".  His response is:   Enchantment! 


Two things we don't see
1) Anyone  else,
2) Traces of anyone else

^I seperate these two because they're actually different.    We see a Room full of Slain darkspawn and  the ones that killed him are no where in sight  (well, except for Sandal  tee-hee)    more over, there isn't ANY trace of Human dead.  No bodies.   None.  It is utterly illogical to assume that common denerim guards can defeat that many darkspawn without suffering a single loss.

redBadger14 wrote...
This thread is mere speculation, ideas brought up by us to try to explain something we don't fully understand. 

Right.  It's a little late for YOU to  now run back to the "it's just speculation and ideas!" argument,  not  when less than a page ago, you were here accusing people of not employing LOGIC. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 janvier 2011 - 07:16 .

[redBadger14]

And as far as any other soldiers go, they could have left to find other Darkspawn to fight and defend other areas of Fort Drakon. There were also soldiers atop the Fort attempting to fight the Archdemon.

[redBadger14]

I simply explained earlier that based on current facts, Dumat was an unlikely reason for Sandal's supernatural properties. Unless some huge plot twist is brought to light. And in addition I stated my own belief to what I thought it was. What I have said after is no fall back, no hypocrisy.



My assumption on Sandal is based on, even though melee combat mainly constitutes to blood spatter on a character, it's not to rule out spatter occurring differently when we don't see what happens. It's an argument between us that we have to agree to disagree on, because in all honesty it can go back and forth until we die of old age. Anyway...



Yes, it does make sense that ordinary soldiers wouldn't be able to easily kill an Ogre, of all Darkspawn.



If you wish to know my opinion, I also believe Sandal killed all those Darkspawn. Though I can't come to terms with myself about how he may have done it. Other than BW adding that scene in for comic relief.

[Yrkoon]

redBadger14 wrote...

And as far as any other soldiers go, they could have left to find other Darkspawn to fight and defend other areas of Fort Drakon. There were also soldiers atop the Fort attempting to fight the Archdemon.

Ok, lets see.  That room with the darkspawn corpses/Sandal  is on Level 1 of fort Drakon.  So the guards  would have had to gather all trace of themselves  (including their own dead)  and quickly march off:

1) to other rooms on the same level  (impossible, as your party  encounters exactly zero Denerim guards anywhere in that level)

2) the  enterance of Fort Drakon  ( again unlikely for the same reason as #1, and with an added impossibility of having  to convince the ARMY of Darkspawn  surrounding the entrance of just letting them go)...  because again, there's no trace of guards  when you get to said entrance and there's also no dead darkspawn until YOU kill them

3) to upstairs  to second floor.   While the room with sandal in it does contain the stairs,  there no dead Darkspawn, and no traces of any guards once you actually get up  to level 2,  so either  the darkspawn let them pass, or they decided to let the darkspawn live.  or both.  Or neither.  I'm betting on the latter.

4)   from Level 1 of Fort Drakon   to the roof of Fort Drakon via teleportation  (skipping level 2).     Of course, arguing that The SAME guards that killed the darkspawn in the room  with Sandal  are the ones you meet on the  roof taking on the  arch demon   is quite a stretch, given #3 and possibly #2.

But I digress.   *I'M" the illogical one for daring to argue that the mysterious and completely inegmatic Sandal, who  can effortlessly fold lyrium runes  into any blade, could possibly kill a room full of darkspawn    Right.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:23 .

[Deathwurm]

Oy! Let's all stay civil so they don't lock this interesting Thread...
I kinda figured that Sandal did a massive ENCHANTMENT and blew them up from the inside out...it's all speculation, though...
I've been avoiding reading too much or watching too many trailers so nothing is spoiled for me, but I kinda remember reading in another thread that Sandal's in DA2...am I right on that?

Modifié par Deathwurm, 22 janvier 2011 - 07:39 .

[redBadger14]

I never said that Sandal killing a whole lot of Darkspawn was illogical. You missed my point.



I also believe Sandal killed all of them. But someone here presented their own opinion of what may have happened, and you shot it down as impossible, when in some ways it could be possible. And there were soldiers still atop Fort Drakon, how they got there, I can't explain. But that's the point I was trying to make. Sandal's Fort Drakon scene is something nobody can fully understand. With my comment very early on about Dumat possessing Sandal's body, I said what I said based on known Codex fact.



But I digress. I've said what I needed to say, and that's that. I will think how I think, just as you will think how you will think. Nothing more to it.

[redBadger14]

And yes I wil stay civil. And in that regard I am done arguing. Back to playing Awakening for me.

[s0meguy6665]

Elithranduil wrote...

Dumat or the "Dragon of Silence" was the first among the Old Gods, ancient draconic beings said to be imprisoned underground by the Maker for usurping his worshipers. Dumat was believed the most powerful of the Old Gods and the one who originally taught blood magic to Archon Thalsian, the founder of the Tevinter Imperium.


Sandal is not Bodahn's biological son, but was found in one of Bodahn's many journeys into the Deep Roads and is since cared for by his 'father'. According to Bodahn, Sandal may be lyrium addled due to the exposure to lyrium in the Deep Roads.

But what if Sandal wasn't exposed to lyrium but the fleeting essence of Dumat that got a foothold within him? What if his prison is that of an orphaned Dwarf? Dumat is cursed forever to be trapped by this...

Enchantment

it would explain how almost everything in that building where he was was slaughtered with him covered in blood

[deuce985]

I think that is a little far fetched lol.

Flemeth would make the most sense at being possessed by a Old God spirit as she seemingly never dies and dies and is incredibly powerful. Might be why her agenda was to use Morrigan and possibly harness more power from a God to expand her own. Maybe that is why she turned into a Dragon when you fight her? I bet she is one of the final remaining 2 Old Gods!

But that would kinda go against the theory of four Old God(including DA:O) being completely destroyed since they can't jump to another body when a Grey Warden kills them.

Modifié par deuce985, 22 janvier 2011 - 07:51 .

[Yrkoon]

redBadger14 wrote...

I never said that Sandal killing a whole lot of Darkspawn was illogical.

Correct.  You accused me of not employing sensible logic:

redBadger14 wrote...
 you provided no sensible logic to your explanation of him being wrong.

^right there.  Again, you're a little late to  now take the "we're just speculating,  just putting forth ideas!"  road here, when just a page ago you were accusing  people of arguing illogically.  Not to mention the fact that contrary to your claim,  I was  actually using in game  evidence for my  argument.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:15 .

[Yrkoon]

deuce985 wrote...


Flemeth would make the most sense at being possessed by a Old God spirit as she seemingly never dies and dies and is incredibly powerful. Might be why her agenda was to use Morrigan and possibly harness more power from a God to expand her own. Maybe that is why she turned into a Dragon when you fight her? I bet she is one of the final remaining 2 Old Gods!

But that would kinda go against the theory of four Old God(including DA:O) being completely destroyed since they can't jump to another body when a Grey Warden kills them.

Actually, there's some pretty convincing  (albeit circumstancial) evidence to suggest that she IS possessed by an old God.

1) First and formost, Morrigan already disproves the theory that the soul of an old god MUST  enter the body of  the grey warden that kills it  (thus destroying both).  If you do Morrigans dark ritual, the Old god's soul completely skips past the grey warden and goes to Morrigan's womb instead.  The question then arises.  Did morrigan simply create this ritual  on her own out of thin air??  or  did it already exist and she just learned of it?  the latter obviously, and if I had to venture a speculation, I'd say that she learned of this ritual from reading Flemeth's grimoire.  But either way, if the ritual exists, then who's to say that it's never been done before with any of the previous arch demons?


2) Also, You point out that Flemeth turns into a dragon when she fights you.

3) and  In Witch Hunt, Morrigan  flat out  says that  you and the wardens should be more concerned about Flemeth than anything else.  She also  confirms the fact that Flemeth is  not an abomination, or a spirit, but something else entirely.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:17 .

[Beaner28]

Elithranduil wrote...

Dumat or the "Dragon of Silence" was the first among the Old Gods, ancient draconic beings said to be imprisoned underground by the Maker for usurping his worshipers. Dumat was believed the most powerful of the Old Gods and the one who originally taught blood magic to Archon Thalsian, the founder of the Tevinter Imperium.


Sandal is not Bodahn's biological son, but was found in one of Bodahn's many journeys into the Deep Roads and is since cared for by his 'father'. According to Bodahn, Sandal may be lyrium addled due to the exposure to lyrium in the Deep Roads.

But what if Sandal wasn't exposed to lyrium but the fleeting essence of Dumat that got a foothold within him? What if his prison is that of an orphaned Dwarf? Dumat is cursed forever to be trapped by this...

Enchantment

[s0meguy6665]

Beaner28 wrote...

[Zevais]

just to add a note... if Dumat was the FIRST Archdemon to be killed... how do we know they got it right? History is blurry, and no one had firsthand knowledge on how to kill an archdemon.



Riordan mentions you need archdemon blood for the ritual. I doubt it was easy to obtain if no archdemons had been slain previously. I doubt the first Grey Wardens even went through the ritual.



I don't believe Sandal is Dumat, but it is an interesting theory.

[s0meguy6665]

Zevais wrote...

just to add a note... if Dumat was the FIRST Archdemon to be killed... how do we know they got it right? History is blurry, and no one had firsthand knowledge on how to kill an archdemon.

Riordan mentions you need archdemon blood for the ritual. I doubt it was easy to obtain if no archdemons had been slain previously. I doubt the first Grey Wardens even went through the ritual.

I don't believe Sandal is Dumat, but it is an interesting theory.

I doubt BW even put any thought into that, though maybe they figured those things out by trial and error. They might've seen the old god being transfered to a new body, and from there the solution could've been theorized and the ritual created.

[Autodoll]

Or perhaps Sandal is Flemeth? We never see them together... And I can completely see Flemeth pretending to be a lyrium-addled dwarf just for kicks. I feel like she has an eccentric sort of humour.