108 réponses à ce sujet

[Malagant]

Tmanfoo, Pessimism is good. It keeps the optimists on their toes. However, I've always said if the amount of water in the glass is indicative of positive thinking, no one has ever drowned from too much air.

Well...let us say...finally...and still...this game is like a year from release...while you have been fed single player campaigns on a regular basis from Bioware the last 7 years or so.

I do agree, but I also appreciate so much effort and development time being put into something as oppsoed to, say, a NWN version of Queen of the Damned (film version... a blatent attempt to cash in on two books  before the rights reverted back to the original source). I do keep an open mind about these things, but my certain attempt at doing so with a certain western comic character this year left me dismayed and I'm hearing a lot of the same rhetoric here.

A nice change. Usually it is the other way around. I dont know HOW many games I played now that where actually constructed to be single player firstmost. Now single player is in the back seat. An appealing change

It is. I wholeheartedly agree, but it unfortunately leaves out a wealth of persons who can not find others to join. I ran a stint on a certain other fantasy MMO and while I found no issue with finding others on a NWN server to RP with and build long lasting relationships, this other world pretty much had me feeling like I wasted $60 on the core and expansion (I didn't even bother purchasing the other two expansions).

In the six months I played, I probably ran with two individuals IF they happened to be on and getting anywhere in the game was futile, even with the available "henchmen". Heading through that north gate was suicide on my own and venturing with that one other person was just as suicidal. I stuck those discs in the stack and haven't bothered logging on since. I just chalked it up to a failed gamble and won't play that hand again.

I am tired of games that are either single player campaigns or cloned MMO's. What about in between? Real good oldschool co-op and D&D...that is what adventure is about for me.

I'm with you there. It's apparently a hard balance to maintain though, and I think starting off under the assumption that people will have a group is a bad move. people that have a group of friends get the bonus points but those that don't get left in the dust. Humans are vicious herd animals by nature, after all.

To be honest, this doesn't sound particularly new. Even with the new announcement this sounds so far a lot like a garbled copy of another game. And that other game isn't NWN.

I suppose a lot of what I said about the rhetoric is summed up in Six's one sentance. Kudos to Six for streamlining my wordiness... and i hope this incarnation of NWN proves me wrong as well. Gods help me if it becomes the Jonah Hex of D&D.

If that had been their thinking this would have been Dark Sun online or something...

I remember the Dark Sun days. Seemed like WotC left behind all the unique properties and only kept FR (probably because Greenwood was still on the staff).

Either way, I'm leaning toward Tmanfoo. Limited with a lot of colorful language to make it seem like you're getting something your not actually getting.

Modifié par Malagant, 25 août 2010 - 07:53 .

[SuperFly_2000]

Malagant wrote...

It is. I wholeheartedly agree, but it unfortunately leaves out a wealth of persons who can not find others to join. I ran a stint on a certain other fantasy MMO

Let me guess....for some unspeakable reason you where playing WoW or a WoW clone(?). No offense...but that game is made for kids and it is as far away from roleplaying as you can get. So that is what you get.

I actually read somewhere that the huge success of WoW was because that you could solo it. Playing solo in an MMO, there it is. So while its MASSIVE...you're still all alone.

I guess you never tried the free game Alien Storm? Ok...yes I know...it is a shooter...but players are more or less forced together...and it works. You're never playing alone.

Sure...sometimes people act like dumbasses or just close down the server or kick you without an explanation but most of the times....you'd be amazed.

After all that is what makes multiplayer gaming so alive. You don't know what you get...

[Genisys]

In honor of all the writers and authors of D&D, especially Gygax, I'd like to say, that anything is possible in D&D, truly, and the game is more or less limited to your imagination..

Online or Offline, all computer games are limited by the skills of the programmer and the limitations of graphics / coding and the artist which are working on the parts that make up the game, and the game is limited by the current available technology and how good someone can invent / create within the limitations of computing..

This game may be viewed by many as a probable fail, or by being judgmental & making assumptions without knowledge of the actual game beforehand (Speculating) they may not have much faith in the game being good or better than NWN 1, the current king of D&D..

If we all just wait a year or so, till it comes out, then we will all have a better perspective on what the game will be like, as some will have played it by then, and we will be able to also judge if it's worth playing by the feedback that comes through..

I for one never played NWN 2 solely because many people said it stunk..
(I'm still not sure if it stinks or not because I never play it, how would I know for sure?)

Even the most pathetically coded & graphically challenged games can be much fun, but where D&D / NWN shines through is, it's more about enjoying the company you keep, and having a good time, whether your dying, casting magic, helping others, RPing, discussing things with others, or whatever...

Any MMO or RPG offer this, just find someone and do your thing...

RP for me is great IF it also includes the group of players actually doing something, standing around whittling tales and acting out your character can be fun, but it's not something I want to stand around typing all day to achieve... forget that, I'm moving forward..

I hope the game is a success, and if it's made very well, no matter what the rules are, then I'm sure it will attract a crowd, for me I like playing with People that are hip, as it's much more fun than playing with people stuck on this or that... (A blast from the past..)  Besides, it's always exciting and fun to try something new ADMIT IT...  

(even if it blows, at least by learning your doing something productive rather than just gaming or worse grinding for loot)

Modifié par Genisys, 25 août 2010 - 05:56 .

[Eradrain]

SuperFly_2000 wrote...


Let me guess....for some unspeakable reason you where playing WoW or a WoW clone(?). No offense...but that game is made for kids and it is as far away from roleplaying as you can get. So that is what you get.

I actually read somewhere that the huge success of WoW was because that you could solo it. Playing solo in an MMO, there it is. So while its MASSIVE...you're still all alone.

I guess you never tried the free game Alien Storm? Ok...yes I know...it is a shooter...but players are more or less forced together...and it works. You're never playing alone.

Sure...sometimes people act like dumbasses or just close down the server or kick you without an explanation but most of the times....you'd be amazed.

After all that is what makes multiplayer gaming so alive. You don't know what you get...

1.  WoW is the best multiplayer game ever made.  It just is, there's a reason it has absolute market-share dominance.

2.  If you have never played WoW, I don't want to see you commenting on what makes it good or bad, any more than I want to see someone who's never had a drink in their life tell me what wines to buy and what wines to avoid.

3.  WoW is neither marketed toward kids, nor predominantly played by children.  The average WoW player is in the 21-35 age bracket, is employed, and owns their own home (And male, if it matters).

...NWN players bashing WoW because it lacks roleplay is a sore spot, for me.  It's apples and oranges.  Two completely different kinds of games, marketed toward two completely different demographics (WoW is marketed toward gamers, NWN/D&D is marketed toward consumers of table-top RPGs).  I RP on NWN servers, I PvP and raid in WoW.

The point where the two intersect, I think, is when you're trying to run a NWNPW, because then you're administering your own little MMO.  And in that case, a lot of the best servers I've seen have embraced the MMO-aspect of their game experience (and even taken balance and gameplay queues from MMOs like WoW and implemented them to great success) whereas the worst servers clung desperately to "P&P purity", ignoring the fact that it was just painful to do that over an online game medium like they were/are trying to.

___________________

On the subject of the upcoming Cryptic game - The strength of NWN is its user-generated content, and I'm not talking about the stuff you make in the toolset so much as the stuff you make out of it and turn into haks.  Judging by the Massively interview, they won't have any support for creating new classes, new textures, new sounds, and the like.  That turns me off, personally.  If I wanna play an online RPG without user-generated content, I'll just play Diablo 3 when it comes out.

Modifié par Eradrain, 25 août 2010 - 06:27 .

[BardKesnit]

I've been reading the info on this game and admit it worries me.



1) Only 5 classes? I don't care if it's 3.5 or 4e, with only 5 classes, there's a limit on what you can do. Perhaps there will be PrCs, though I can't imagine how many of those there will be with only 5 base classes. Even if it is 4e and there are multiple Paragon Paths for each base class, 5 classes seems really limiting.



2) Forced grouping concerns me. Sure, grouping is great if you have a group of people that you can meet up with and run, but that isn't always the case. I played DDO when it first came out and spent a lot of time running around doing errands while I waited for enough people to join the group I was in so we could run a dungeon.



I understand that D&D is a cooperative game and is supposed to be played in groups. And maybe Cryptic will come up with a better way of getting groups together than Turbine did. This is an area where I have to just wait and see.



3) A post in the NWN2 forums quotes a Cryptic rep saying the Forge will not allow custom content to the extent NWN1 & 2 had. It's like the content creator in City of Heroes, which does not allow non-combat quests, requires linear quests, and does not have a conversation option.





As an aside... WotC just published a Dark Sun Campaign Guide and Players Guide. So they are still supporting Dark Sun. (I have not had a chance to read the book to know how it relates to 2e Dark Sun, but the few things I have read about it make me think it is a reasonable version of the setting.)

[SuperFly_2000]

[quote]Eradrain wrote...

1.  WoW is the best multiplayer game ever made.  It just is, there's a reason it has absolute market-share dominance.[/quote]Actually it is the most successfull game ever, saleswise, all cathegorys...not just multiplayer games.

Still...it doesn't appeal to me.

[quote]Eradrain wrote...
2.  If you have never played WoW, I don't want to see you commenting on what makes it good or bad, [/quote]I have played a WoW trial. Enough to know that it does not appeal to me and that it looks childish.

[quote]Eradrain wrote...
3.  WoW is neither marketed toward kids, nor predominantly played by children.  The average WoW player is in the 21-35 age bracket, is employed, and owns their own home (And male, if it matters).[/quote]Ok...maybe I got carried away a bit there. Of course it is not only kids playing this game. It is just that it looks childish to me.

[quote]Eradrain wrote...
I RP on NWN servers, I PvP and raid in WoW.[/quote]It is good that you admit to this. It kind of even more takes away the "roleplay" in WoW doesn't it. Because after all...it is roleplaying games that we are talking about here no?

[quote]Eradrain wrote...
On the subject of the upcoming Cryptic game - The strength of NWN is its user-generated content, and I'm not talking about the stuff you make in the toolset so much as the stuff you make out of it and turn into haks.  Judging by the Massively interview, they won't have any support for creating new classes, new textures, new sounds, and the like.  That turns me off, personally.  If I wanna play an online RPG without user-generated content, I'll just play Diablo 3 when it comes out.
[/quote]Actually they talk a lot about user made content. They also talk about it in a kind of really new and refreshing way. I mean in NWN1 you could build pretty easily (somewhat). Now you will be able to do that even easier AND it will instalntly be avaliable to all. Which is kind of groundbreaking. Of course this kind of building will be restricted somehow because otherwise all the kids would build vampire cities or something....and a fantasy D&D game can not be solely devoted to that (just as an example) so it has to be restricted in some way.

You mentioning Diablo here makes me squirm even more. But sure...I will not look down on the action aspects of the game (also in NWN). To each their own.


[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
I've been reading the info on this game and admit it worries me. [/quote]We are all worried about the outcome of this.

However I am endlessly happy that I finally read NWN and multiplayer in the same sentence upon a game release.

[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
1) Only 5 classes? [/quote]Well....its better than 500....

The good thing is that we wont have half the players running around as half-dragon, half-fiend, planetouched, vampire gimps.

[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
2) Forced grouping concerns me.  [/quote]Playing alone concerns me even more....

[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
I understand that D&D is a cooperative game  [/quote]Yeah....that is the essence of it.

[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
And maybe Cryptic will come up with a better way of getting groups together than Turbine did. This is an area where I have to just wait and see. [/quote]Umm...Turbine...wait...are you talking about DDO now?

Well...thats not a roleplaying game the way I see it...

[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
3) A post in the NWN2 forums quotes a Cryptic rep saying the Forge will not allow custom content to the extent NWN1 & 2 had. It's like the content creator in City of Heroes, which does not allow non-combat quests, requires linear quests, and does not have a conversation option.[/quote]It being easy and restrictive is essential as they want to integrate it more into the game...which is groundbreaking.

Let's not get carried away with details about how it will be though.

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 08:53 .

[BardKesnit]

[quote]SuperFly_2000 wrote...

[quote]Eradrain wrote...
I RP on NWN servers, I PvP and raid in WoW.[/quote]It is good that you admit to this. It kind of even more takes away the "roleplay" in WoW doesn't it. Because after all...it is roleplaying games that we are talking about here no?[/quote]

It is possible to RP in MMOs, even WoW. I was in an RP guild in Age of Conan, and I've heard people talk about their RP guilds in WoW. Granted, the RP was seperate from the gameplay.

[quote]Actually they talk a lot about user made content. They also talk about it in a kind of really new and refreshing way. I mean in NWN1 you could build pretty easily (somewhat). Now you will be able to do that even easier AND it will instalntly be avaliable to all.[/quote]

But it still comes back to what can be made. If user-made content is as restrictive as it looks like it will be, where is the incentive to play user-made when the main game has more variety and options?

[quote]However I am endlessly happy that I finally read NWN and multiplayer in the same sentence upon a game release.[/quote]

NWN1 and 2 both had multi-player at release. That is nothing new.

[quote]SuperFly_2000 wrote...
[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
1) Only 5 classes? [/quote]Well....its better than 500....

The good thing is that we wont have half the players running around as half-dragon, half-fiend, planetouched, vampire gimps.[/quote]

*chuckle* Very true. But there is a happy medium between.

[quote]SuperFly_2000 wrote...
[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
2) Forced grouping concerns me.  [/quote]Playing alone concerns me even more....[/quote]

Playing solo at one point does not mean the game can be solo-ed.

As I said before, I played DDO when it first came out and one of the things I really disliked was there was that the only things that could be done without a group was go to the bank or run around picking up / turning in quests. A lot of time was spent standing around, looking for a group to run a dungeon with. There was no option to hop on briefly and get a quick quest done. Unless server population was high at the time, it usually took at least 30 minutes to get a group together, then the time to run the dungeon.

If someone has a set group to play with and can hop right on and into a dungeon (like raiding in WoW), it would not be an issue. For anyone without that, it's a huge waste of time.

[quote]SuperFly_2000 wrote...
[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
And maybe Cryptic will come up with a better way of getting groups together than Turbine did. This is an area where I have to just wait and see. [/quote]Umm...Turbine...wait...are you talking about DDO now?[/quote]

I did say I played DDO when it came out and was making comparisons to it, yes.

[quote]Well...thats not a roleplaying game the way I see it...[/quote]

Nor is NWN, unless the players make it so. I've seen PWs that have a heavy dungeon-crashing tone and others that are more into RP. And as I said above, it is possible to RP in MMOs, but the players have to be the ones to make the effort.

[quote]SuperFly_2000 wrote...
[quote]BardKesnit wrote...
3) A post in the NWN2 forums quotes a Cryptic rep saying the Forge will not allow custom content to the extent NWN1 & 2 had. It's like the content creator in City of Heroes, which does not allow non-combat quests, requires linear quests, and does not have a conversation option.[/quote]It being easy and restrictive is essential as they want to integrate it more into the game...which is groundbreaking.[/quote]

No it isn't. Cryptic already did it in City of Heros, which is what the Forge is based on.

Modifié par BardKesnit, 26 août 2010 - 12:52 .

[SuperFly_2000]

BardKesnit wrote...
It is possible to RP in MMOs, even WoW. I was in an RP guild in Age of Conan, and I've heard people talk about their RP guilds in WoW. Granted, the RP was seperate from the gameplay.

Well ok...yes...you can probably roleplay in an empty room with a toaster.

I will probably end up over my head if I try to explain roleplaying. Instead I will mention what I most assimilate it with. That is oldschool D&D and Forgotten Realms.

I dont want to play with other characters looking like genetically modified mixrace beings in a world that looks like it was taken from Unreal.

And no...you are wrong....roleplaying is not something you can separate from the gameplay.

BardKesnit wrote...
But it still comes back to what can be made. If user-made content is as restrictive as it looks like it will be, where is the incentive to play user-made when the main game has more variety and options?.

You are just not visualizing this in a positive maner.

BardKesnit wrote...
NWN1 and 2 both had multi-player at release. That is nothing new.

Just because you slap multiplayer on to a single player game doesn't make it a fully devoted multiplayer game.

This time they are makign a multiplayer game and slapping on single player. So it is a mile wide difference.

BardKesnit wrote...
As I said before, I played DDO ...

DDO is an arcade game the way I see it. It is just so fast paced that every roleplaying feelig for me would be out the window.

Also you're loaded up with phat l3wt from the start already. Another atmosphere breaking element.

The thing is that we are so different that we will never understand each other. I see you are playing WoW clones and also single player games.

Also I am just guessing you actually never played Neverwinter Nights 1 in multiplayer on PW servers?

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 01:51 .

[SuperFly_2000]

It is a shame Cryptic doesn't have a forum.

Well...probably it would be full of frustrated WoW kids (like the SW:ToR forums)...so maybe its good in a way....

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 01:50 .

[SuperFly_2000]

Also Mystra is dead in the game which is very stupid....and some parts of world is supposedly twisted because of this.



Now they have a good reason to turn this game into a planescape torment thing...



Maybe I am just getting to old for computer games....

[B_Harrison]

What'd concern me most is having one, narrow view of what is "correct" roleplay or gameplay forced onto me in an RPG, by developers (or judgemental players) who likely couldn't roleplay their way out of a paper bag.

And that's why I'm not optimistic about this new "Neverwinter" game -- besides the likelihood of it being a rushed release by a developer no gamer on the internet seems to respect -- we won't, apparently, be able to develop and host our own PWs from scratch. Take away single player adventures(?) and what have you got left to be optimistic about? 4th edition D&D?

Maybe I'm wrong and it'll be the hobbyist modder's ultimate versatile RPG platform to end all RPG platforms, but we seem to have more reasons to doubt it than not.

Modifié par B_Harrison, 26 août 2010 - 02:02 .

[BardKesnit]

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

And no...you are wrong....roleplaying is not something you can separate from the gameplay.

Yes, it is. Let me tell you about the RP guild I was in in AoC...

Guilds in AoC could set up their cities, which were instanced locations that only members of the guild or invited guests could enter. My guild's city was set up with it's own government (seperate from guild leadership), and each PC belonged to a section of the city (chosen by the player when they joined). Sections included the military, merchants, spies, and slaves. Leadership in each caste was seperate from PC level, and it wasn't uncommon to have a senior member of a section be a low level PC because the player used that PC for RP and not for playing the game. Slave PCs could be owned by any PC who wanted to be a Master, and again, level did not matter.

The guild city was run as a city. The military did drills. Spies did recon on other cities (which had to be RP-ed because of course, we couldn't enter other cities. This was mostly done by meeting OOC with "traitors" from another guild and passing along infomation.)

In no way did any of this affect the gameplay. As I said, leadership in the city was based on player preference, not PC level. If the player went into the world to play the game, there could no RP at all. (If there was, it was in the guild chat channel and did not affect the gameplay.) 

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
But it still comes back to what can be made. If user-made content is as restrictive as it looks like it will be, where is the incentive to play user-made when the main game has more variety and options?.

You are just not visualizing this in a positive maner.

Let's just say I am cynical, and am basing my comments on things said by Cryptic and by people who have played CoH.

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
As I said before, I played DDO ...

DDO is an arcade game the way I see it. It is just so fast paced that every roleplaying feelig for me would be out the window.

Because you choose to play it that way. It would be possible to RP in DDO, the same way you can RP in any multi-player game, but it requires the players to actually do it. Being an MMO does not mean it has to be "hack and slash" with no RP.

Also you're loaded up with phat l3wt from the start already. Another atmosphere breaking element.

Maybe now, but when it came out, WBL was about what it would be in a PnP game. 

Also I am just guessing you actually never played Neverwinter Nights 1 in multiplayer on PW servers?

I have, actually. I tried a few, and they were all the same. I found it horribly dull because it was just like an MMO - do as much as you can solo, then stand around and look for people to group with. Maybe occasionally, I'd be lucky enough to stumble across people RP-ing in town. During quests, there was no RP, just run through the quest and finish as fast as possible.

And these were on a servers that labled themselves RP servers. (I can't remember which ones, as it was several years ago.) 

[SuperFly_2000]

Well yeah...you're probably right...but at least you have a somewhat medieval "fantasy" looking game (usually...depending on the server of course).

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 02:18 .

[Eradrain]

You don't need medieval fantasy to roleplay. Are you saying you can't RP in the Warcraft setting because of the setting itself?

What about White Wolf's World of Darkness setting? That takes place in the modern day, and last I checked, people were buying those books and RPing just fine.

Honestly Superfly, it seems to me like you've got a pretty rigid understanding of Roleplay. Like if it isn't D&D, it's somehow not valid. That's not the case.

I've been roleplaying in some way, shape or form since I was a kid who could scribble maps onto sheet paper. I don't need D&D to do it anymore than I need a bicycle to get around - it's just means to an end. I could take a car, a train, a plane, or I could walk.

On the subject, again, of Cryptic's Neverwinter:  I don't know why you're so viciously defending the project against our reasonable concerns, given the studio's history, and given what we like about NWN, and given that according to the interviews, very little of what we like about NWN is being put into their game.

You're free to love what you read about it, but trying to convince us that we're wrong is an exercise in time-wasting.

Modifié par Eradrain, 26 août 2010 - 04:51 .

[Genisys]

I'd like to speak freely here, and I don't intend to step on anyone's toes either..

I've never really played NWN for the "Roleplaying" or "Storyline" factor, in fact, when I play D&D most of us had a great time role-playing while adventuring, but that's the fine difference in playing the game and just standing around talking for me. Which seems to be the major focus for some, which is cool, but it's definitely not my cup o tea. I hope this new Neverwinter has a great storyline, and while roleplaying should always be an option, there are multiple elements which makes D&D / NWN so fun, and it's not really anyone ONE focus, but all of these things that makes D&D & NWN great.

Modifié par Genisys, 27 août 2010 - 04:55 .

[SuperFly_2000]

Eradrain wrote...
You don't need medieval fantasy to roleplay. Are you saying you can't RP in the Warcraft setting because of the setting itself?

What about White Wolf's World of Darkness setting? That takes place in the modern day, and last I checked, people were buying those books and RPing just fine.

I didn't talk so much about other settings....but yes, the setting in WoW really doesn't immerse me or "prepare" me for roleplaying.

Eradrain wrote...
On the subject, again, of Cryptic's Neverwinter:  I don't know why you're so viciously defending the project against our reasonable concerns, given the studio's history, and given what we like about NWN, and given that according to the interviews, very little of what we like about NWN is being put into their game.

Hehe...I don't know if it is "vicious" but I am amazed at the amount of negativity. A lot of the text in the interviews also highlights good parts from NWN. There are only a few things that can be interpreted as potentially being bad.

Maybe I am just happy that someone finally is making something about NWN but with multiplayer in the front seat. Because this is clearly something that always have been "slapped on" the final product. Now they instead slap on single player to the multiplayer game...which makes a lot more sense.

The game could potentially become something like Diablo...in which case my interest will drop dramatically of course.

So yes...I really am finding it hard to believe they are actually making a game for a perhaps narrow segment but why not think positive while the opposite has not yet been proved.

@Genisys, totally agree there.

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 27 août 2010 - 10:51 .

[Shia Luck]

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

BardKesnit wrote...
NWN1 and 2 both had multi-player at release. That is nothing new.

Just because you slap multiplayer on to a single player game doesn't make it a fully devoted multiplayer game.

This time they are makign a multiplayer game and slapping on single player. So it is a mile wide difference.
....

Maybe I am just happy that someone
finally is making something about NWN but with multiplayer in the front
seat. Because this is clearly something that always have been "slapped
on" the final product. Now they instead slap on single player to the
multiplayer game...which makes a lot more sense.

Actually, nwn was always designed with the DM client as focus, specifically for small groups to MP together. It was the SP parts of the release that were added in late in the day. BW didn't officially support PWs, (or mini MMOs we might as well call them), but MP was always the design concept.

Have fun

[Genisys]

It's paramount to understand that, RPGs Thrive and Survive as long as it holds player's interest, maybe NWN2 was a fail because it couldn't hold the players & builder's interest like NWN 1 did.

Nevertheless, if it has a great storyline, plot, and gameplay, it still must have one other major factor..

Re-Playability, for if players play it once and say "Dang, that was sort of lame", they won't return..

If the players play the game and say: "WOW" (no pun intended), "That was awesome, I can't wait to play again.." Then you know you got a hit...

If it holds true to D&D, considering R.A. Salvatore, which is more of a combat focused writer, is writing the storyline, which he has great depth in writing about characters, I'm sure this game will have a good storyline, considering he is the #1 author in D&D Books, more or less, then I think the game has a good chance of being fun...

If the game is fun, regardless of ALL OTHER FACTORS, people will play it, the only thing that remains to be seen is how engrossing will it keep players peeled to their bleeping computers...

Modifié par Genisys, 29 août 2010 - 02:06 .

[Eradrain]

Genisys wrote...

It's paramount to understand that, RPGs Thrive and Survive as long as it holds player's interest, maybe NWN2 was a fail because it couldn't hold the players & builder's interest like NWN 1 did.

Where does it say that NWN2 failed?  The community is as big or bigger than NWN1's.

[SuperFly_2000]

Shia Luck wrote...
Actually, nwn was always designed with the DM client as focus, specifically for small groups to MP together. It was the SP parts of the release that were added in late in the day. BW didn't officially support PWs, (or mini MMOs we might as well call them), but MP was always the design concept.

Actually, No. The focus on NWN1 was primarily to make a single player campaign and to sell copies of the game. You are right in a way though. Multiplayer was also in focus but it wasn't the primary focus....which is the big difference compared to the announcment of Cryptic's new Neverwinter game.

Eradrain wrote...
Where does it say that NWN2 failed?  The community is as big or bigger than NWN1's.

In the multiplayer area it failed mizerably. There are so many indications of that.

NWN2 was even more focused on selling single player campaign copies than NWN1 and was actually fairly successfull in that....but who cares about that part of the game....

[SuperFly_2000]

Just hoping that they don't make a "Diablo" of this new Neverwinter game.



Still...it is odd that Cryptic don't have a forum at all....

[Shia Luck]

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...
Actually, nwn was always designed with the DM client as focus, specifically for small groups to MP together. It was the SP parts of the release that were added in late in the day. BW didn't officially support PWs, (or mini MMOs we might as well call them), but MP was always the design concept.

Actually, No. The focus on NWN1 was primarily to make a single player campaign and to sell copies of the game. You are right in a way though. Multiplayer was also in focus but it wasn't the primary focus....which is the big difference compared to the announcment of Cryptic's new Neverwinter game.

Source with quotes from Dev

[Jez_fr]

Shia Luck wrote...

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...
Actually, nwn was always designed with the DM client as focus, specifically for small groups to MP together. It was the SP parts of the release that were added in late in the day. BW didn't officially support PWs, (or mini MMOs we might as well call them), but MP was always the design concept.

Actually, No. The focus on NWN1 was primarily to make a single player campaign and to sell copies of the game. You are right in a way though. Multiplayer was also in focus but it wasn't the primary focus....which is the big difference compared to the announcment of Cryptic's new Neverwinter game.

Source with quotes from Dev

yeah totally pnp conversion to PC. The idea was such a blast at the time, for pnp DMs ^^.
In the first magazine articles they published at the time it was clearly stated (was it in Dragon mag, or PC gaming world... by Ray Muzika). Anyway, later in development surely the total craze about Diablo II at the time influenced some NWN final content.
Shia thanks for the link!

[SuperFly_2000]

Shia Luck wrote...

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...
Actually, nwn was always designed with the DM client as focus, specifically for small groups to MP together. It was the SP parts of the release that were added in late in the day. BW didn't officially support PWs, (or mini MMOs we might as well call them), but MP was always the design concept.

Actually, No. The focus on NWN1 was primarily to make a single player campaign and to sell copies of the game. You are right in a way though. Multiplayer was also in focus but it wasn't the primary focus....which is the big difference compared to the announcment of Cryptic's new Neverwinter game.

Source with quotes from Dev

Yes...I read that quote and it pretty much supports what I said.

Just because MP is "supported" doesn't mean it was the main focus for the game developers.

The main focus was the single player campaign provided with the game. This is what took the mayor part of the time and cost to make because this was the main focus. Then multiplayer "support" was added. (A little simplified but thats basically what they did).

Bioware also said that 90% of all who bought the game did it only for the single player campaign. Not a coincidence really....as probably the same amount of development costs went into that part of the game.

Well..actually...probably a little less...as multiplayer was not something that Bioware was going to return to any time soon...

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 30 août 2010 - 02:46 .

[Shia Luck]

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...

SuperFly_2000 wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...
Actually, nwn was always designed with the DM client as focus, specifically for small groups to MP together. It was the SP parts of the release that were added in late in the day. BW didn't officially support PWs, (or mini MMOs we might as well call them), but MP was always the design concept.

Actually, No. The focus on NWN1 was primarily to make a single player campaign and to sell copies of the game. You are right in a way though. Multiplayer was also in focus but it wasn't the primary focus....which is the big difference compared to the announcment of Cryptic's new Neverwinter game.

Source with quotes from Dev

Yes...I read that quote and it pretty much supports what I said.

Just because MP is "supported" doesn't mean it was the main focus for the game developers.

The main focus was the single player campaign provided with the game. This is what took the mayor part of the time and cost to make because this was the main focus. Then multiplayer "support" was added. (A little simplified but thats basically what they did)....

Well, I am not going to argue about it further than this. People can read the full quote with the link I provided but when the developer of the game says

...the original intention was for small groups of players to get together
and play through modules as a party. Giving people an experience very
close to pen and paper D&D, but on the computer.

, then I can't see how it supports your argument that it is an SP game with MP added on.

Have fun