108 réponses à ce sujet

[WebShaman]

Oh yeah? Where are all the abilities and skills for OUTSIDE of combat?

[SuperFly_2000]

Hmm....didn't look that far into it....



Probably not that big kind of super problem though. I mean lets face, there are many skills in NWN that we almost never use.



I've never seen anyone use intimidate for example. Pursuade is very rare...and so on. I know some servers add even more of theese kind of skills.



Besides...as I said...they don't HAVE to follow 4e exactly (because AGAIN...this is a computer game). Why is everyone thinking that they are forced to do everything exactly like in 4e?



Did NWN1 do EXACTLY as in 3.0?



Did NWN2 do EXACTLY as in 3.5?



The answer is no.



I'm feeling like a parrot now...repeating the same things....









So that is one fear aside. Let us not asume that Cryptic will do everything wrong. Why can't we at least hope for or assume that they will do some things right?

[WebShaman]

You seem to be forgetting that not all players play as you seem to be describing. Have I played in NWN Online games where we used skills not used in the OC? Yes, I have. We also swam, climbed, flew, and jumped. You see, with RP (especially in a closed DM session with a real party in a campaign) one can do just about everything.

This is the main point of contention that I have with 4E. It is just not suited for RP, it is really just a set of rules cannibalized from the D&D ruleset designed for a MMO environment.

[SuperFly_2000]

There is nothing wrong with an MMO environment...in fact....we LIVE in one :-P

Jokes aside...just cause all companies managed to turn MMO into something that is only mainstream and for kids does not mean that all MMO games also in the future must be like this.

I mean...I think you can pretty much say that NWN PW's are MMO's....I mean why not?

But yeah..I get your point...what you meant to say is that 4e looks more like WoW-MMO style.

You did not get my point though....so I'll say it again....they don't have to follow 4e exactly...

....AND...there COULD be some kind of possibility to make customiziation to this also....like adding the skills that you want.....so....

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 10 novembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[BardKesnit]

Snottling wrote...



The new Neverwinter game sounds like a kind of D&DO from what I've read. That particular game was, to me, ruined by rushers and power gamers and people with no desire to role play at all. I want to believe that Neverwinter will be a good RP game, but I fear that it will only be another D&DO clone.

I really hope I'm wrong.

I fear the same. I was really excited for DDO when it came out because I had not yet found a PNP group. Once it came out, I got disillusioned very quickly. (Though I know several of the issues I had have been fixed, like a lack of classes.) I'm shy by nature, and found it very difficult to get a group together to run dungeons. Then you had to run the same dungeon so many times. But what really killed the game was when an early questgiver asked my Paladin to break into a building and steal something. Doing the quest did not affect being a Paladin.

WebShaman wrote...



Almost everything that allowed one to do RP etc in D&D was hacked out in the 4e rules. If it does not deal with combat, action, etc, then it is gone.

This is one of the complaints that pisses me off abotu 4e. Who needs rules to RP?

[Kail Pendragon]

BardKesnit wrote...

This is one of the complaints that pisses me off abotu 4e. Who needs rules to RP?

You still need rules for outside of combat actions which is what 4e is basically lacking.

[WebShaman]

This is one of the complaints that pisses me off abotu 4e. Who needs rules to RP?

It is not about "needing" rules to RP that is the problem, it is the LACK of such that is. Having rules lets one shape his character according to the RP - one can invest in such skills, abilities, etc that aid RP situations! A great Orator, Persuader, etc, for example. Or one that studies ancient, lost lore. Relics. Whatever. Perhaps a suave Rogue type that can manipulate social events. Being able to advance and enhance such skills and abilities with rules allows for character building not based on combat.

Without rules, one can do this, but it often ends up just being a real sham. Just how good is that character at what he/she does? Dunno.

It would be like having combat without rules. One can do it, but it will be really goofy.  But following this train of thought logically, this is where it heads.  Who needs combat rules?  Throw them out! 

Modifié par WebShaman, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:03 .

[BardKesnit]

WebShaman wrote...

Having rules lets one shape his character according to the RP - one can invest in such skills, abilities, etc that aid RP situations! A great Orator, Persuader,

Bluff, Intimidate, and Diplomacy are still skills in 4e.

etc, for example. Or one that studies ancient, lost lore. Relics.

History and Religion are still skills in 4e.

Perhaps a suave Rogue type that can manipulate social events.

Back to Bluff and Diplomacy. Maybe Insight to determine what will work to influence a person.

Without rules, one can do this, but it often ends up just being a real sham. Just how good is that character at what he/she does? Dunno.

Good thing there are still skill ranks and rules, then, eh?

[WebShaman]

Try using those outside of combat.

[Vansen Elamber]

One of the only problems I can see with this project is that it might leave out some of the long time fans of NWN because they are still playing it on a system that was new when NWN was released, and the new version from Cryptic may not run well or at all on these older systems....

[BardKesnit]

WebShaman wrote...

Try using those outside of combat.

That's the only time I do use them. They work quite well when talking to NPC's. There's descriptions for skill check DC's in the PHB and a guide to making skill challenges in the DMG.

Modifié par BardKesnit, 19 décembre 2010 - 04:27 .

[bhaal123]

The only question on my mind is, will this game have a subscription fee?



If so, I will not be playing it.

[SuperFly_2000]

Why? ...you short on cash?

[NorthWolf]

Eh, I personally won't play games with subscription fees either.

[SuperFly_2000]

Even if the game is good?



Ok...so what kind of business model do you suggest for a game that will get development and other throughout its life? ....or perhaps you are totally against games that continue to be developed by the same company after their initial release except from patches?

[NorthWolf]

Some people simply do not support or endorse the pay-to-play model; some people feel strongly enough that they actually will not purchase pay-to-play games, no matter how good they are. If you don't feel the same way, no one's actually sitting here beating you with a stick to make you avoid buying the game.



In my personal experience it's never worth it, neither the pay-to-play or the micro-transaction models. I often feel like I'm either:



1.) Getting the equivalent of patches, but I have to pay for them.

2.) Getting content that I should have already received on release that conveniently went missing.



But that's really just me.

[bhaal123]

I can remember having a WoW subscription years ago. When I didnt feel like playing after a couple of weeks I simply toss the game aside for a while. It really sucks when you want to play again that you have to buy another subscription just to be able to access your character. I always had the feeling I whas throwing money away by not playing which doesnt encourage "having fun".

Guild Wars has a far more superior business model and so do D&DO en LOTRO. I even predict that this Neverwinter game will be a failure if it uses the subscription based model since there are allready so many alternatives that cost less and are even F2P.

We will see.

Modifié par bhaal123, 31 décembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Frith5]

Guild Wars has a far more superior business model and so do D&DO en LOTRO.



Er, superior how? If you mean, nicer for you, than sure enough. If you mean for the business itself, uh, have you looked at WoW's success lately, compared to those other games you mention? It blows them outta the water, without any shred of doubt.



I don't play WoW, or any subscription games, but I've paid for my son's WoW account a lot of times, and it was money well spent. Look, if you buy a ticket to the latest movie, and a popcorn, you've exceeded WoW's cost for the month. That means one movie a month to equal it. Also, when you leave the theater, do you ask for your permanent copy of the movie, so you can watch it anytime you want? Not just watch it, but watch it at the theater on the big screen, I mean. Of course not! Even if you said, "Hey, I'll pay you what it's worth to ME to buy the movie! Whaddaya say, I give you $60, and any time I want, I get to fire up the equipment and watch MY MOVIE here, okay?

Do you tell your phone company you bought the dang phone, why do they keep sending you bills each month?

Do you tell the electric company to cease ripping you off with these monthly extortions, since you already paid to have the service installed once?



The subscription model is not ripping off, and it's not stupid. It's different. It also is likely the future of things. Nobody is forced to use it (like I said, I don't), but we all use one form or another of the model.



I don't play subscription games right now, but if a game comes along that I feel is worth the monthly fee, you bet I'll pay it. I pay a LOT for internet on a monthly basis, after all, and a LOT for tv on a monthly basis too.



Happy New Year, everyone!!



JFK

[NorthWolf]

I doubt it'll be the absolute future, but, yes, I have no doubt the subscription model is going to remain popular. It doesn't mean I'm inclined to buy into it, as I've yet to find a game that was such high quality that it seriously justified me paying money every month to access its content. The only time I might feel this as "more fair" is if the initial cost for the game is small.

As for likening this to a movie at the theatre, you can always go to a local gaming centre and pay a few bucks to play some games for an hour. That's a closer analogy than going to the movies, because when I go to the movies I haven't bought the content of the movie. However, if I do buy a movie, it's a little silly if they want to charge me every time I want to watch it. Then it's more like I'm paying for something then renting it over... and over... and over again even though I "own it".

Anyway, differences of opinion in the end. Some people like it, some people don't. I just find myself unable to feel it's worth my money, especially considering I do tend to play games on and off.

Modifié par NorthWolf, 31 décembre 2010 - 06:32 .

[seventhslayer]

 I am really excited about this!

Modifié par seventhslayer, 31 décembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[Vansen Elamber]

NorthWolf wrote...

Some people simply do not support or endorse the pay-to-play model; some people feel strongly enough that they actually will not purchase pay-to-play games, no matter how good they are. If you don't feel the same way, no one's actually sitting here beating you with a stick to make you avoid buying the game.

In my personal experience it's never worth it, neither the pay-to-play or the micro-transaction models. I often feel like I'm either:

1.) Getting the equivalent of patches, but I have to pay for them.
2.) Getting content that I should have already received on release that conveniently went missing.

But that's really just me.

I think that if we are talking about MMO's here, that they need to have a monthly subscription fee because a really good MMO is never finished it is always in development so that new content can be added. In order to have the funds to support quality new content, which includes writers for storylines, artists, coders, voice actors, the entire cast and crew so to speak you can not have talented folks that will stick around if they are volunteering their skills, it just won't work.

The MMO or any multiplayer online game has to be considered a work in progress up until the developer releases the code to the public domain or they just shut down their servers due to lack of interest. A good MMO developer will have the game ready to play at launch, but the term "finished" can never be applied to multiplayer online games, because as soon as it is finished thats when the servers will shut down shortly after that.

[SuperFly_2000]

Vansen Elamber wrote...
...the term "finished" can never be applied to multiplayer online games

Actually it can....but that is besides the point a little bit.

The thing is....what they are really doing....is devlivering a persistent world. As we all know a PW is more enjoyable if it undergoes some development while you are playing. Both technically and expanding the world itself.


To jump to something completely different I just want to quench the fears a little bit about this game being like all other new ultra mainstream games...this game will not be released to consoles for starters. That gives hopes at least for me...because it indirectly states that this game is too comlicated for that....

If you have any other reasons why you think this game will be good...please post them...as I am tired of negativity on the subject.... (so lets think positive).

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 12 février 2011 - 10:25 .

[Drewskie]

To jump to something completely different I just want to quench the fears a little bit about this game being like all other new ultra mainstream games...this game will not be released to consoles for starters. That gives hopes at least for me...because it indirectly states that this game is too comlicated for that....

Huh? It's an mmo... Has there ever been a successful mmo on console? Not that I know of. Just because it's pc only doesn't mean it will have complex gameplay... just look at some of the other mmo's...

[SuperFly_2000]

You are right...similar games actually don't go to consoles...

[Urk]

Just my 2 cents. I don't buy pay to play subscriptions either. Not that it matters much. I don't much care for mommorpogers so I probably won't give NWN3 much attention anyway, but I blew hundreds of dollars subscribing to Ultima Online back in the day. What a freakin' waste of money. I won't be doing that again. Turbine has a good F2P model. If Atari knows what's good for them they'll try to do something similar.



Of course the issue with that is that Atari has traditionally shown a complete inability to grasp what is and isn't in their own best interests.