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[UFOP]

Interesting...I've heard about this game before but I never heard what ruleset it would be using.



4th edition, huh? Do any of you have a good amount of hours in the PnP game? I've DMed and played in quite a 4e games. It's definitely not my cup of tea, and I've switched over to Pathfinder (modified D&D 3.5, which is becoming very popular in the PnP community).



WebShaman, I have to disagree with you that 4e is a roll-playing game and not a roleplaying game. There is nothing that prevents you as a player from roleplaying in 4e. However, 4e has been created in such a way that, strangely, almost makes players, even veteran players, into limiting their thinking when playing the game and kind of indirectly forces them to roll-play.



For example, characters powers have flavor text on them. So, instead of describing one's action any way you want, the fact that the flavor text exists makes players think that if they want to use that power, they need to describe it in such a way. The existence of so called "powers" is almost the game roleplaying for the player. That's one thing that I really hate about 4e. The rules focus is definitely on combat and powers, and it almost seems like adventures need to be created around those concepts.



SuperFly_2000: 4e in one sense has darted off drastically onto another path. There are changes that make people wonder if this is still D&D. For example, PC's now have what are called "powers", and they have at-will, encounter, and daily powers. The fighter no longer says, "I attack with my broadsword", he now says, "DM, I use my Flash of Cuts power on the orc. If I hit the orc twice he takes 5 ongoing damage. Got that? Ok." Encounter powers are just that, every encounter you can use it once. Daily powers once a day. The Wizards have been totally nerfed. No longer do you choose spells from a huge list. You only get a few limited spell choices depending on the level. Basically, every class and their powers is based on the Vancian system in some sense.



Here's an example of a power stat block:

Flash of Cuts Fighter Attack 27

Your flurry of attacks are so fast it seems like they are just one strike. It is only later on that your opponent realizes you have wounded them in several areas.

Encounter * Martial, Weapon

Standard Action Melee weapon

Target: One or more creatures

Attack: Strength vs. AC, three attacks

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. If at least two attacks hits the same target, the target takes 5 ongoing damage (save ends).

Weapon: If you are wielding a light blade, the target receives a penalty to the saving throw equal to your Dexterity modifier.



4e would make a great RPG single-player/online game. As a PnP it's fun for some, but it totally fails for me.

[Elhanan]

Personally, what I disliked of what I saw of the 4E rules is the attempt to micro-manage every tad, bit, and nano-second of combat at the expense of imagination, flow, and storytelling.

I started playing PnP with the old brown books in the Christmas of 1975, jumped into AD&D, frowned at the kits of 2E while embracing Al-Qadim and other settings, relished and embraced 3E and some of the fixes offered in 3.5E, and have quit completely mainly because of 4E.

Now I hold to NWN1, and look to see what happens with DA and other IP rules.

[SuperFly_2000]

As I said many times...they are making a computer game out of 4ed and thus things from it will be lost and other things will be added...just like it ALWAYS is when you're making a computer game out of a PnP game. So lets see what they make of this before more whining please.



DA seems nice but it is not multiplayer and dare I say it....things seem to have been severely simplified from NWN....

[Elhanan]

Not whining; simply stating that between a MMO - possibly the most problematic gaming platform - along with a rules set that I have rejected - that I will not be waiting to see what happens. I simply choose other available options that appear to be more enjoyable, managable, and RP friendly.

However, I do hope that the results do not disappoint those that do wait. It is already sad to see what PnP has become; hope that the CRPG experience is far better.

[SuperFly_2000]

Elhanan wrote...
MMO - possibly the most problematic gaming platform

The only thing that MMO says is that the game has a lot of players and that they are online. It says nowhere that it has to be childish, dumbed down, follow established frames, mainstream, non D&D like. Yet every MMO out there is like that. Hopefully there is room for a different game and hopefully Cryptic are making it now...(?).

I'll agree with you that for some reason it seems problematic to do this...

Elhanan wrote...
- along with a rules set that I have rejected -

As I said....they are making a computer game of it....so lets wait and see. I don't play Pen and Paper myself anymore (haven't for a long time) but I love the D&D in NWN.
 

Elhanan wrote...
I simply choose other available options that appear to be more enjoyable, managable, and RP friendly..

I hope you are not refering to DA. You do realise that DA lacks the one and most important ingredient for being anything remotely close to a PNP game...other people!

Elhanan wrote...
However, I do hope that the results do not disappoint those that do wait.

It has been a long road of dissapointments. We are not playing a 9 year old game for nothing.

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 21 février 2011 - 09:42 .

[NWN DM]

Elhanan wrote...

However, I do hope that the results do not disappoint those that do wait. It is already sad to see what PnP has become; hope that the CRPG experience is far better.

There's one thing PnP will always have that CRPGs won't; having to protect your Mountain Dew and Cheetos from your fellow players (the DM gets a pass because it's simply foolish to not bribe when the opportunity is there for favourable die rolls).

[Elhanan]

Cheetos? All that orange dust on the die? Nah; gimmee pizza and Pop-Tarts!

[WebShaman]

WebShaman, I have to disagree with you that 4e is a roll-playing game and not a roleplaying game. There is nothing that prevents you as a player from roleplaying in 4e. However, 4e has been created in such a way that, strangely, almost makes players, even veteran players, into limiting their thinking when playing the game and kind of indirectly forces them to roll-play.

ANY game can be played role-play style - just depends on the group. IMHO, that is a given. But that is not the point that I was making about 4E. You go on in the quote above to describe why 4E fails to remain true to it's D&D heritage, and why so many in the PnP scene have fled from it (me included) to Pathfinder (which I find to be the true successor for PnP D&D here).

The main point is, that 4E has moved away from its roots in PnP and towards the online CRPG experience (ala WoW). This left most of the PnPers in the cold. It is for this reason alone that Pathfinder became a valid option IMHO.

As long as D&D continues to move towards WoW, there will never again be a game based on D&D that will be a successor to NWN. The only option here that I can see is to go with Pathfinder. Bioware has already proved that using a different IP can be a commercial success (ala DA).

It should not be all that difficult for a company like Bioware to use the Pathfinder IP and create a commercially successful game that truly exceeds NWN, thus becoming the true successor to it. It is what I am hoping for.