145 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

didymos1120 wrote...

No, they aren't.  They don't ever tell you "You shouldn'ta oughta done did that there base thingy, Shep."  They're just worried about the consequences.  It is possible to recognize the downside of something without thinking the whole thing was a bad idea to begin with, you know.

They are because there is no feasible way in this universe to separate sparing the base and keeping it from TIM. That is a fact of life.

I didn't comment on whether it might be a good idea to risk it anyway. Sure it's possible (and trope-tastic) for TIM to end up being worse than the enemy they already know... but it's just as possible that he will come up with an anti-reaper superweapon, use it, and then stay behind the scenes to ensure humanity gets a fair shake in galactic affairs without being a douche about it.

I'm not discounting any of those possibilities - merely pointing out the very real reality that sparing the base and putting it in TIM's hands are inseparable. If you want to keep the tech but don't think he can use it responsibly, you're SOL. That's all I'm saying.

[Sajuro]

krimesh wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

It's a big thing when the Cerberus Loyalist says that wasn't such a hot idea to give her boss the base. I personally like Samara's quote if you keep the base, basically saying that TIM thinks he knows more than he does.

what does Mordin say?  snip  And Miranda too.. she is supposed to be the Cerberus cheerleader after all

I was actually shocked when I heard that Mordin was in favor of keeping the base since his 'replaced by tech' monologue  along with Legion's self determination was a major factor in me wanting to blow the base. I only kept it in my first game since I was sure an unloyal Miranda would betray your team if you tried to blow the base, I have to admit it gave me more respect for her that she recognizes TIM isn't always right.

[krimesh]

Yea, but as far as I understood, Mordin is in favor of keeping it only while there, and not after handing it to TIM, right? Is it possible that you don't get any comments from your team (while making the decision) if you are full paragon/renegade, or maybe based on some conversation choices? I don't think I had them comment every time. And yea, the cheerleader definitely gets my independent thought award.

Modifié par krimesh, 25 août 2010 - 10:05 .

[Markinator_123]

I really don't know why Bioware made this seem like such a wrong choice. Having all of your team members disagree with the decision was a bit much. Seriously, why give us this renegade choice when they made it seem like the wrong choice to make? Besides, paragon choices are rewarded way too much especially considering how quite a bit of them are naive.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 25 août 2010 - 12:20 .

[Sajuro]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I really don't know why Bioware made this seem like such a wrong choice. Having all of your team members disagree with the decision was a bit much. Seriously, why give us this renegade choice when they made it seem like the wrong choice to make? Besides, paragon choices are rewarded way too much especially considering how quite a bit of them are naive.

They heard TIM's speech
TIM: "and then I will take over the galaxy!"
Shepard: "Wait, what?"
TIM *Coughcough* "I mean, humanity will be advanced... yeah just a light cough."
Shepard: <_<

Modifié par Sajuro, 25 août 2010 - 12:53 .

[JasonDaPsycho]

Actually, the whole point of the arguement isn't with "I blew up the base!! OMG!! We've lost a good weapon!!" but with handing the base to Timmy. As a matter of fact, I would have struggled hard on whether to keep the base or not IF Timmy boy was nice to me. But then he is too dark of a figure and sent my Sheaprd to numerous traps so I was quick on the decision to blow up the base.

Of all my playthroughs I have no way to justify the sparing of the base.
Paragon: No one deserves such a power
Renegade: I'm blowing it up just to mess with Timmy
Neutral (ie playing as myself): I'm blowing it up not only because it will ****** Timmy off, but also because Harbinger is so ugly and annoying to a point where I want to freaking torture him and make him eat his own body parts. By blowing it up it clearly shows all the things he's done are now gone and he's totally dying for nothing all thanks to Shep (IN YO FACE. WE ARE HARBINGER MY ^$$). Blowing it up will ****** everyone I hate off and I like that.

[krimesh]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I really don't know why Bioware made this seem like such a wrong choice. Having all of your team members disagree with the decision was a bit much. Seriously, why give us this renegade choice when they made it seem like the wrong choice to make? Besides, paragon choices are rewarded way too much especially considering how quite a bit of them are naive.

Actually, to me the paragon and renegade bars are just indicators on how convincing I am when I say sensitive or harsh things to people. Its not like the light and dark side of the force, even though you get reminded of KOTOR a lot.

If you beat the crap out of a guy, just because he looked at you in a funny way, then people are more likely to believe you when you threaten them, even though beating him up might have been a stupid thing to do with the two cops standing next to him and all that.
So I don't see a problem with getting renegade or paragon points for bad decisions.
Also your squad mates don't have to be right. You are Shepard damn it; you have the guts to stand by your decision no matter what they say. They may be unhappy that to bring down the reapers, you might have caused the rise of Darth Timmy in ME3, but if you think there is nothing wrong with that, then they can go to hell.
Of course you can't expect to play renegade and end up in a cosy, warm place, with everyone being nice to you afterwards.

[JockBuster]

JasonDaPsycho wrote...

Actually, the whole point of the arguement isn't with "I blew up the base!! OMG!! We've lost a good weapon!!" but with handing the base to Timmy. As a matter of fact, I would have struggled hard on whether to keep the base or not IF Timmy boy was nice to me. But then he is too dark of a figure and sent my Sheaprd to numerous traps so I was quick on the decision to blow up the base.

Of all my playthroughs I have no way to justify the sparing of the base.
Paragon: No one deserves such a power
Renegade: I'm blowing it up just to mess with Timmy
Neutral (ie playing as myself): I'm blowing it up not only because it will ****** Timmy off, but also because Harbinger is so ugly and annoying to a point where I want to freaking torture him and make him eat his own body parts. By blowing it up it clearly shows all the things he's done are now gone and he's totally dying for nothing all thanks to Shep (IN YO FACE. WE ARE HARBINGER MY ^$$). Blowing it up will ****** everyone I hate off and I like that.

I could have not said it better:
"Blowing it up will ****** everyone I hate off and I like that!"  Plus a warning to the Reapers, See what happens to my enemies when you ****** me off! Dr. Chakwas, "You don't have many enemies, live ones at least!"

Modifié par JockBuster, 25 août 2010 - 03:26 .

[Nightwriter]

Well... there is always the possibility BioWare's pulling a fast one and your teammates' overwhelming disapproval for keeping the base is just a trick?

Modifié par Nightwriter, 25 août 2010 - 03:42 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well... there is always the possibility BioWare's pulling a fast one and your teammates' overwhelming disapproval for keeping the base is just a trick?

Huh? Of course not...

Also, just like Jason said, the problem isn't entirely concerned with keeping the base per se, but rather giving it to Timmy.

[Eldareus]

I can understand The illusive man point that studying the reaper tech will give us the best chance to counteract the reaper technology. That's a sound war time strategy. The problem is Timmy is only acting in the best interests of himself and his supremancist ideology. Handing over such powerful tecnology to such a ruthless man would not bode well for the rest of the galaxy .



I don't buy into Cerebus's noble claim of promoting humanity. I am in the middle of playing the original Mass effect again and I am reminded once more what a immoral bunch of inhuman bastards Cerebus truly is thourghout the game. Even with the knowledge my past unsavory dealings with Cerebus were the military branch and there is two other branch within the Cerebus organisation; regardless all roads lead back to Timmy. Cerebus is a top down organisation and I get a sense that nothing gets done without the invisible hand of TIM himself.



I do agree with the OP though that there should have been several squadmates who disagreed with my decision (mostly from the usual suspects Miranda and Jacob ). The unequivocal concensus from the crew is that none of them trust TIM either even the pro humanity folks. After the betrayal at the collector ship perhaps that is why they all agree that blowing up the base make the most sense regardless of the knowledge or advantage the collector base may provide.

[krimesh]

Eldareus wrote...

I can understand The illusive man point that studying the reaper tech will give us the best chance to counteract the reaper technology. That's a sound war time strategy. The problem is Timmy is only acting in the best interests of himself and his supremancist ideology. Handing over such powerful tecnology to such a ruthless man would not bode well for the rest of the galaxy .

I don't buy into Cerebus's noble claim of promoting humanity. I am in the middle of playing the original Mass effect again and I am reminded once more what a immoral bunch of inhuman bastards Cerebus truly is thourghout the game. Even with the knowledge my past unsavory dealings with Cerebus were the military branch and there is two other branch within the Cerebus organisation; regardless all roads lead back to Timmy. Cerebus is a top down organisation and I get a sense that nothing gets done without the invisible hand of TIM himself.

You should not post that in here though, this is the last peaceful thread having anything to do with the saving or blowing CB matter. There are enough threads dedicated to Cerberus-antiCerberus verbal warfare. 
Not that I dislike warfare... its better when the husks stand together when you throw an Incinerate at them, thats all.

Modifié par krimesh, 25 août 2010 - 05:11 .

[Spectreshadow]

My very first playthrough I kept the base. The smile TIM had at the end of the debriefing ensured I would never do that again.

[Mallissin]

I like fried chicken.

[Dave of Canada]

I go back to the speech that Hock gives at the party in Kasumi's Stolen Memory, that my Shepard does the bad things that makes the galaxy keep turning while people sleep soundly and enjoy their lives. My crew may not like my decision to give the base to the Illusive man, yet they'll have to understand that I don't need their approval.

[krimesh]

What about the Humanity-will-ram-a-fist-into-all-alien's-where-the-sun-does-not-shine-places gesture he makes at decision time? No one mentions that. 

[Eldareus]

krimesh wrote...

You should not post that in here though, this is the last peaceful thread having anything to do with the saving or blowing CB matter. There are enough threads dedicated to Cerberus-antiCerberus verbal warfare. 
Not that I dislike warfare... its better when the husks stand together when you throw an Incinerate at them, thats all.

I am sorry, it wasn't my intention to fan any pro/anti cerebus war flames with my repsonse. I was just trying to rationalize why the surviving crew members seemed to supported the nuke the base option. Seems clear from their responses they all have trust issues with TIM/Cerebus. It's a head scratcher why Miranda and Jacob would break cerebus ranks and agree as well.

[Markinator_123]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well... there is always the possibility BioWare's pulling a fast one and your teammates' overwhelming disapproval for keeping the base is just a trick?

It would be interesting if this turns out to be like the Bhelen-Harrowmont choice from Dragon Age.

[Nightwriter]

That's what I was thinking. Still doubtful, though.

[krimesh]

Why, what happens if you choose Bhelen?

[Markinator_123]

krimesh wrote...

Why, what happens if you choose Bhelen?

Bhelen opens up Orzammar to the world (bringing much prosperity to the kingdom) and the dwarves start driving the darkspawn back while if you pick Harrowmont he dies and becomes a failure as king.

[Nightwriter]

Which sucks, because Bhelen is an ass. Picking him hurts my soul.

[PsyrenY]

Bhelen's a jerk, but you don't have to be likable to be a good leader. I picked him based on his policies, not his personality. Harrowmont is very polite and honorable, yet utterly parochial and backward in his political style. How could you support anyone that favored upholding the caste system and keeping the dwarves cut off from the world at large, disregarding even their own surface traders?

[Nightwriter]

Whereas Bhelen was deceitful and murderous. He showed me no real proof at the time that he was king material in any way, or that he would rule fairly. It is only foreknowledge of the epilogue that can make Bhelen the right choice in my eyes. But what really gets me is you can't pick Bhelen without also killing Harrowmont. But how did this become a Bhelen/Harrowmont discussion? Doesn't matter.

[jbblue05]

 Miranda pissed me off at the collector base she was suppose to be results at all cost Give Cerberus a chance Commander, the Cerberus CHEERLEADER and she is like destroy the base:huh: she was so out of character.

Jacob should've been for the base because he believes Cerberus should do whatever it takes to stop the Reaper threat.

Its better to have the base and not need it then need it and not have it.

Why wouldn't you give it to him he used reaper tech to create EDI and he probably used  Reaper tech to resurrect your Shepard

Who would you give it to:

ALLIANCE-  Someone said it earlier Cerberus will infiltrate and if the Alliance wouldn't properly investigate the missing colonies in the Terminus why would they go to check out some base in the middle of the galaxy

COUNCIL-  The Council wouldn't  risk a war by entering the Terminus systems they're too scared

FLOTILLA- The Quarians would use the tech to try to take back their homeworld from the Geth.  Plus they're in political strife do you think its wise to introduce a Collector Base to them=]


ARIA-   Seriously who else would you give it to?


I have no problem giving it to TIM for the short term because he HAS to use it to fight the reapers
After that if your Shepard still has the Normandy SR2 you could check on the base to see what's going on and if you dont like it Who'll dare stand in your way.

Plus how would TIM make a reaper from scratch? Where would he find millions or possibly a billion humans he can turn into a smoothie and not have anyone notice or become curious?